14 replies to this topic

[ikonomov]

This mod disables the ability to sell stolen goods in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal.

 

Click here to open this mod's page

Edited by ikonomov, 17 October 2022 - 05:31 AM.

[ikonomov]

Just tested playing the game with the mod and wanted to report some observations in case anybody is wondering whether this mod might make stealing obsolete.  It is still possible to steal from most of the merchants from the game as normal (the hardest is Bernard requiring 228 pickpocket points for 100% success rate), and a skillful thief can make some money as well by selling to the fences goods stolen from the normal merchants.  It does require a bit more effort, and there is a practical limit of how much money can be made, since there is a limited quantity of high priced items that can be stolen.

[ikonomov]

To quote myself "and there is a practical limit of how much money can be made" is true, but the limit is quite high.  At the very start of the game I was able to make close to 100k which makes all the premium items immediately available as well as completely remove the grim problem of coming up with 15k/20k.  I have decided to remove entirely the ability to sell stolen goods in the game, similar to the way it is in BG1.  Stealing is allowed by default from most of the merchants in the game, so pickpocketing is just as useful in BG2 as it is in BG1, only it doesn't allow making money obsolete.

[jastey]

I like the mod idea very much, but I always play paladin like and all my obligatory party rogue is allowed to do is find traps and disarm them. (I am terrible at roleplaying.)

 

 

I have decided to remove entirely the ability to sell stolen goods in the game

Not even to the fences? I understand your goal of minimizing the possibility to make much gold early on but the difference of BGII to BG1 is that there are fences, at least. So, from a roleplaying point of view disabling selling stolen goods entirely sounds a bit forced. EDIT: Well duh, the mod title is "Disable selling stolen goods". OK - move on, everyone - nothing to see here...

Edited by jastey, 10 November 2018 - 10:07 AM.

[ikonomov]

Thanks for the compliment.  I'm not very good at roleplaying myself lol, in most of my playthroughts I try to be goody two-shoes, yet I've used this exploit in particular in most of my games.

 

Until I updated it yesterday to v1.3 the mod's name was "BG2 Disable stealing from fences".  I agree with you that the change is a bit forced, originally my idea was to simply not allow the loop of stealing/selling to the same merchant over and over.  In practice, however, I found that my mod made little difference.  Stealing from the regular merchants and then selling the stolen goods to the fences still allows making too much money.  In a way it seems to almost break the game's flow, giving access to some of the best items at the very beginning.  In BG1 Black Lily, the thieves guild merchant should be able to buy stolen goods if the game went by the same mechanics and logic as BG2.  She can in EE.  Whether it was purposely designed this way or the idea of fences simply came later when designing the BG2 engine is unclear.  Unless the designers of the game specifically had in mind making money obsolete, especially at the start of the game, which is I think unlikely from watching the chapter 3 intro video, it seems clear that this exploit was overlooked.

 

Anyways, my mod changes the mechanics of the game, one way or another.  The change in v1.3 is I think somewhat more invasive than my original idea, but I decided that if there was to be change in the game for this mechanic it might as well fix the problem.  We'll probably never know, but I believe that the exploit is simply an overlook, not intentional.

[The Imp]

T..  in most of my playthroughts I try to be goody two-shoes, yet I've used this exploit in particular in most of my games.

...

Stealing from the regular merchants and then selling the stolen goods to the fences still allows making too much money....nal.

Really, how about you never save before you go to a merchant and try. You'll never make any money cause you can't be sure to be able to get out safe.

This is the reason you don't do it in real life too.

I for one can be as cheesy as you and just make millions of gold with the cheat console ... but that's cheating. Now, that's not to say that stealing is a good way to make gold... it isn't, and I never do it, because of the cheating ...

 

What I can't understand is the random sell and buy rates. They should be in a separate component. And have different options as sub components... my mod has this...

 

COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.sto$~ ~override~
    READ_LONG 0x14 ~price~
    PATCH_IF !(price = 0) BEGIN
        WRITE_LONG 0x14 ~150~                //we set all the stores that actually sell stuff to sell them at the same rates
        WRITE_LONG 0x18 ~50~                //and buy them at a same rates too, this way if you use 3000 gold, you get a 1000 back when selling
        WRITE_SHORT 0x1c 0x0000                //sets the multiple of same items in the store to not effect the sell price of items
    END
    PATCH_IF (price = 0) BEGIN
        WRITE_SHORT 0x22 ~32000~            //bags etc to contains almost unlimited, but not borged amounts of item
    END
    BUT_ONLY
    
COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm$~ ~override~
    READ_SHORT 0x38 ~stackamount~
    PATCH_IF (stackamount > 1) BEGIN
        WRITE_SHORT 0x38 ~1000~
    END
    BUT_ONLY

... but there could be large differences on what people prefer, and all could be subcomponented to fill requests.

[jastey]

The Imp: Stealing in-game and selling (if possible) is not cheating imho. It might feel like it, though, if the number of stealable items is too high and the amount of gold available from a fence to sell them infinite. So, I understand the mod idea (and my paladin PC is thrilled by it, I can tell you.)

[The Imp]

The Imp: Stealing in-game and selling (if possible) is not cheating imho. It might feel like it, though, if ...

There's no if. As the answer to this: Why in the whole world isn't everyone doing this with stuff IN THE REAL WORLD ? It's because they might get caught and they can't load a save game. That's where the cheating comes into the scennario.

[ikonomov]

Really, how about you never save before you go to a merchant and try. You'll never make any money cause you can't be sure to be able to get out safe.

Sadly the mechanics are different for pickpocketing using F5 to direct the cursor to an NPC and pickpocketing when engaged in trading with a merchant.  Using F5 has a critical chance of failure and so the risk of being caught, while pickpocketing from merchants at 100% and above (skill - store stealing penalty) is always guaranteed to work.  There is absolutely no risk of being caught.  It's free money for the taking right out of Irenicus dungeon, as selling the collected goods by then is enough to buy 4-5 potions of master thievery.

Edited by ikonomov, 12 November 2018 - 03:49 PM.

[DrAzTiK]

What is the difference between this mod and the rogue rebalancing component  witch looks similar ? 

Revised thievery

http://readme.spellh.../readme_rr.html

Edited by DrAzTiK, 19 November 2018 - 01:01 PM.

[ikonomov]

Originally the idea of my mod was to disable the ability to steal from the fences, which I did by replacing the merchants store files by my edited files.  I later adopted the code from the Rogue Rebalancing mod, which accomplishes the same task more elegantly.  In the latest v1.3 I edited the code so that instead of disabling the ability to steal from the fences the mod now disables the ability to sell stolen goods.  Both the Revised thievery and my mod seek to prevent the infinite gold exploit, only in different ways.  With Revised thievery it is still possible to get lots of gold using a thief with enough skill points in pickpocketing, in my opinion enough to break the balance of the game especially at the beginning by stealing from regular merchants and selling the stolen goods to the fences.  In addition Revised thievery prevents stacking of the thievery potions, which introduces another change to the mechanics of the game.

[laclongquan]

I am not in agreement with the idea of this mod. Selling stolen goods is the time honored tradition of DnD and BG/FR world.

 

I do however agree in spirit. Method: either disable shoplifting entirely, fence or not. Or push it to highest possible (like 200).  Why is shoplifting so easy is beyond me~

 

mod all the stealable store to have higher threshold should not break the game.

[ikonomov]

I am not in agreement with the idea of this mod. Selling stolen goods is the time honored tradition of DnD and BG/FR world.

 

I do however agree in spirit. Method: either disable shoplifting entirely, fence or not. Or push it to highest possible (like 200).  Why is shoplifting so easy is beyond me~

 

mod all the stealable store to have higher threshold should not break the game.

 

Stolen goods can still be sold, but pickpocketed items from an NPC, not from a store.  Generally though, pickpocketing seems one of the least useful skills in the game, as there are only a few items worth stealing, and there's always the chance to get caught when pickpocketing.  So very likely the store stealing was implemented to make the skill more useful.  I think we can make a valid argument that being able to make a profit beyond simply using the store stolen goods might push the usability of the skill too much.  I guess it's up to whoever downloads the mod to decide.  This is the only mod that I've made for BG2 that changes the original mechanics of the game, something that I'm entirely against, and I've actually not used the mod in my own last two runs.

[laclongquan]

Pickpocketing is actual too useful thus it break the games.

 

1. Steal from majority of stores thus allowing unlimited funding. This reduce difficulty (free rod of resurrection charge allow for all kind of battle healing...)

1a. Steal from store to reduce their stock thus raising the buying price. Example: a store has 1 item of the type will buy at 25% itemprice, but with no stock will ask for 30% itemprice, the basic buying threshold of all store. This is useful if you play with max Bayle/Cowled Wizard fee and thus have huge need for gold.

 

2. Steal from certain NPC thus reduce their tools to be used. Example, cursed sword of berserking user cant do his best without that sword after we cast remove curse on him and steal it. Or taking potions away from the guards so they are without healing tools in the coming battle.

 

PP is a valid investment, comparable to detect illusion/traps.

 

What I object to is the relative easy threshold to steal in store. Only Bernard in Copper Coronet has a somewhat realistic threshold for shoplifting. Once you raise the shoplifting to 150+ that would limit the shenanigans. Raise it to 200 and you have a healthy playstyle.

Edited by laclongquan, 26 May 2019 - 07:35 PM.

[DrAzTiK]

Steal from any shop should be forbidden.  I never do it.

 

To make the pickpocketing skill usefull, we should make baldur similar to Dragon Age : every neutral character should have some money/potions/scroll/jewelery etc... A neutral noble character should have more money than a beggar etc...

So It would be nice to have a mode patching all neutral character, giving to them some random  loots. ( in a balancing way of course).