384 replies to this topic

[Caedwyr]

I'll try taking a GWW druid through ToB to see if they are unbalanced by this immunity. Given the number of spells that get tossed around it may not be much of an issue.

[Baltrek]

Actually, I mis-spoke my last post. Only the Ring of Gaxx regenerated in WW form. Everything else had the portrait icon, but did not work.

I'll CLUA up to GWW and see if it works.

[Baltrek]

Well, as a GWW the regenerate portrait icons work the same way (as in not like they should) , but she regenerates so fast it is hard to tell if the items are actually working or not. Melf's AA could not even damage her fast enough to hurt her.

Even though this is a bug, I think it is big problem for the normal WW, since she does not have any innate regeneration powers.

Like getting hit by a puny skeleton.

[Littiz]

Baltrek, have a read at the Shapeshifting doc, you'll find some answers.
Remember that we're trying to fix something that wasn't fixable in the first place, so something must be paid for this.

The shield issue is a hard-coded bug I can't solve. It applies for everyone (dualwielding fighter mages who cast Melf's Meteors get a RANGED melee attack with the secondary weapon, it's even worse...).
Remove the shield, or pretend that enchantments are merged

Anyway, I'll add a small regeneration rate to the WW (1/6 of the one got by GWW). This will be a fixed regeneration rate, as the other one. When back to human form, things should work normally again

P.S.: yes, I needed a break, and I still do. But it was evident that with more users, I'd have more stuff to adjust. I hope we can do a "definitive until version 2" build next week...

[Baltrek]

I read the shapeshift doc, and did not see anything. I'll check it out again, thanks. That regen in the WW form will help a lot, especially if they are no longer immune to normal weapons.

[Caedwyr]

That's definately a bug. The no armor rule + the evilness of the item should rule it out as a valid item for the Sword Angel.

[Baltrek]

Littiz-

I read the shapeshift doc again. IOt says that some portrait icons will not display properly. This is true if you equip the iteps while in WW form, but they are correct if the items are equipped while in normal form, and then you shapeshift. But, even though then the regenerate icons display properly then, the regenerate effect is still not working.

[Littiz]

That's definately a bug. The no armor rule + the evilness of the item should rule it out as a valid item for the Sword Angel.

It's a bug, but only for the armor part (S.A. would have no problem in using an item like that, otherwise).
Fixed.

I read the shapeshift doc again. IOt says that some portrait icons will not display properly. This is true if you equip the iteps while in WW form, but they are correct if the items are equipped while in normal form, and then you shapeshift. But, even though then the regenerate icons display properly then, the regenerate effect is still not working.

I hate to use such dusty modding retoric but... the engine has its limits, alas.
The fix uses a trick similar to the one I used for Merciful Fighting... it seems regeneration isn't working while that is active, unless I reapply a fixed regeneration rate on purpose (which I did for the werewolf forms).
Again, I can accept it, since the target forms at least work as they should.
Oh, and remember that "Furthermore, turning back to the natural form now heals the druid somewhat."

[T.G.Maestro]

I think that cold-iron issue will cause problems. I've been browsing through the item lists, and I must admit that such weapons are VERY rare, even in ToB. This means that the GWW will be almost unstoppable, even by bosses. This shouldn't happen. To be honest, we have 2 options:
1.: change that immunity to non-cold iron weapons to immunity to +2 weapons - I would avoid this if possible, since Littiz did a great work with a curretn settings, and that immunity makes perfect sense;
2.: change numerous weapons (at least in ToB) to be useable against GWWs (act as a cold-iron weapon). This would include the natural weapons of some monsters for example (Dragons, Vampires, Demons) and the weapons of most bosses (at least their non-droppable versions).
Again, one of these changes seems to be necessary, we cannot let the GWW form to simply waltz through bosses unharmed by physical blows - not to mention facing magical creatures like an ancient Dragon...

BTW, do normal Greater Werewolves in BG2 use the same immunity to non-cold iron weapons (aside from Anath)?

[Caswallon]

Usually not.
Anath and maybe those two named ones that talk to you in Windspear dungeon seem to be the only ones; "normal" Greater Werewolves are not immune to non-cold iron.
(The immunity is granted by the Ringloup.itm, while standard GWW bear the Ringwolf.itm.)

[Feanor]

Anath and maybe those two named ones that talk to you in Windspear dungeon seem to be the only ones;

Only Anath is immune to non-cold iron weapons. The others two fell quite easy.

[T.G.Maestro]

This should be fixed in our upcoming creature revisions, if we will find the time. Hmm, do Wolfweres have the same silver(cold-iron) immunity? Or at least, should they have it (since it don't seem to appear in-game)?

[Feanor]

Except for Flail of Ages and Silver Sword, there are other cold-iron weapons ?

[Baltrek]

Makes complete sense Littiz. I did not know how exactly you guys fixed the WW forms. Innate regenerative rates would work just fine. I did notice the healing while shifting though, nice touch. As long as the forms are correct, I think you hit it right on the money.

It would seem that the "right", and most reole-correct, option for the weapons would be to re-flag weapons as cold iron. That would also be the labor intensive option, I think. I do not think making the GW immune to +2 would be the best. Not because it would be unbalanced, but because it does not really fit.

[the bigg]

I don't know if this was already posted, but SA fall when blue circles with the SHOUT AI are attacked by another blue circle (E.G. Prophets of the Eyeless attacked by Helm Knights).

IF
        Kit(Player1,SWANG)
        OR(2)
          AttackedBy([ANYONE],DEFAULT)
   HitBy([ANYONE],CRUSHING)
	Allegiance(Myself,NEUTRAL)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
         IncrementGlobal("LISwaFal","GLOBAL",1)
         Continue()
END

since the attacking goes on for ~ 6 seconds, the SA has plenty of time to fall. Shouldn't this code use the SetGlobal command instead? Or checking for LIswafall<3?

[Feanor]

I do not think making the GW immune to +2 would be the best. Not because it would be unbalanced, but because it does not really fit.

[Feanor]

Hmm, do Wolfweres have the same silver(cold-iron) immunity? Or at least, should they have it (since it don't seem to appear in-game)?

For all to know :
- Werewolves : Hit only by silver or +1 or better magical weapon ;
- Wolfweres : Iron or +1 or better weapon to hit.
That meand Wolfweres are indeed immune to silver weapons.

[Littiz]

The original GWW form spell pointed to the WEREGRDR.CRE file, which "virtually" uses RINGLOUP.ITM (read: the intended effects are not really gained).
So I say non-cold iron immunity should be in, but, if it's too much, I see no real option other than immunity vs +2 or less.
Oh, we could patch all the weapons, yes, but, I mean... now?!?!?

@the bigg:
Thanx, truly a nice catch!
I should change ANYONE into something for "party member", of course
Kish argued (and convinced me) that CHARNAME must be generally held responsible for the actions of all the party (at least, for how BG2 works in every other circumstance).
So I gave it 2 times of "tollerance"

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I think that the real question is what foes use 'cold iron' weapons. If the GWW can only be killed by 1 or 2 foes then it is too much.

First figure out which NPCs should be able to hurt the GWW form & then edit their weapons as needed. This shouldn't be a huge list IMO to make 'cold iron' useable.

On the flip side I would be fine with immunity vs +2 or less. Heck I would probably be OK with +3 or less.