384 replies to this topic

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I thought that virtue made it so that the SA fell if party members killed unconscious foes.

That's balance for ya!

Of course if you play without virtue.....

[T.G.Maestro]

I thought that virtue made it so that the SA fell if party members killed unconscious foes

The SA is not my area, so I can't say it is true or false. If it is true, than I wonder how this fact will ruin the usability of spells/abilities that knock creatures uncounscious (like Shockwave or Shadowless Kick).
Sorry, but I'd never have a SA in my party at such costs.

I tried to kill Kitthix after knocking it senseless, and I didn't fall.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 06 May 2004 - 11:04 AM.

[Littiz]

I've fixed several problems with the Sword Angel kit, all the corrected files were sent to Littiz.

Ehm, I counted just two, and I have rejected them
(EDIT: Sorry, now I've seen also the typos reports! )

• The visual setting was intentional
  
• The order of the table was: offensive abilities, a mixed one (spiritual int.), defensive abilities, passive abilities. It seems fine to me.
  I could accept a change, mind you, but since you ALSO leave me the hassle of checking your new order myself and reordering the documentation, I'll leave it as it was before.

You may have a point about Imp. Merciful Fighting, but toning issues will have to be moved to the (fabled! ) version 2.

Unconscious enemy and SA's falling:
No, Virtue doesn't do anything about that.
I tried everything I could to implement such a trigger. I mean, quite literally, EVERYTHING. In my attempts I also happened to identify a couple of UNKNOWN values that seemed like the key to build a tricky but working mechanism.
Yet, nothing.
In other words, AFAIK the engine doesn't allow to do such a thing. Sad, but some limits do exist...

Edited by Littiz, 08 May 2004 - 02:03 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

Ehm, I counted just two, and I have rejected them  
(EDIT: Sorry, now I've seen also the typos reports!

And the lesson is, my children: Look first, than talk.

The visual setting was intentional

While it MIGHT be intentional, it looks out of place. That "splash" animation should start from the chest, not from the head. It looks displaced at the moment. Unless you could provide me with a good reason on why it should remain in such an unpleasant state, I vote for using my version.

The order of the table was: offensive abilities, a mixed one (spiritual int.), defensive abilities, passive abilities. It seems fine to me.

And I'd have no problems with it if it wouldn't mess our current system. All of our tables use the Red (mostly offensive) - Blue (mostly defensive) - White (mostly passive) order. And the stress is on the colors, not the exceptions. While Spiritual Integrity might have mixed effects, it has a white icon - which means it should follow only after the blue ones. You are wrong however - Banish is not a "mixed" HLA, and it comes after the defensive ones like Heroism. Every other table uses this order, I see no reason why the SA table should be an exception.

I could accept a change, mind you, but since you ALSO leave me the hassle of checking your new order myself and reordering the documentation, I'll leave it as it was before.

I'll take care of the docs then, and provide you with a precise list of the abilities - but it should be changed.

You may have a point about Imp. Merciful Fighting, but toning issues will have to be moved to the (fabled!  ) version 2.

OK.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 10 May 2004 - 02:57 AM.

[Caveman]

The Sword Angel falls shortly after the opening cutscene in Saradush. As far as I can tell, the cause is a fire giant attacking a militiaman. (Like with the Drow killing the Dwarf in Ust'Natha) The fallen status is unavoidable.
Falling when summoned creatures are killed- I have been playing around with this and I have found that, so far, it has only been doing it when the creatures are summoned using wands, staves, and misc. items. Those that are summoned via spells do not cause the S.A. to fall when they are killed.
Hope this helps... Let me know if I can provide anymore details/information.

@Imp. Merciful Fighting being overpowered- I was about to disagree, then thought about it some. Playing with improved monsters and battles mods installed, I don't think it really unbalances the game. I have never been able to knock-out any of the tougher opponents in the game. ie: dragons, undead, beholders, and Irenicus...( I was really looking forward to knocking him out!) Demons and mindflayers I did manage to render unconscious with I.M.F. and normal Merciful Fighting. Oh, and golems too. Something strange happened when an Adamantium Golem was unconscious: it would be laying on the ground, then stand up, cast Gas Cloud, then fall back down until it regained consciousness or was killed.

[T.G.Maestro]

I don't think it really unbalances the game. I have never been able to knock-out any of the tougher opponents in the game

I have no problems with this ability's duration, nor with its save penalties - it is the duration of the uncounsciousness effect that really bothers me. IF the PC manages to knock one of the important opponents uncounscious, they won't have a second chance. 5 rounds is a lifetime, and since creatures in that state are counted helpless (with all the AC pnalties), they are killed 90% by some of the stronger NPCs in the party.
Again, I say 3 rounds would suffice.

I did manage to render unconscious with I.M.F. and normal Merciful Fighting. Oh, and golems too

Golems should be immune to uncounsciousness...

[Littiz]

Again, that "falling" problem should be already solved.

I've sent the new build to TGM, and I've been very clear that this is the FINAL version 1 build (labeled 1.03), so it's meant to be released again.

There won't be anymore: I will have a HUGE break from Refinements.
So TGM, you force me to repeat myself again: there won't be other builds, not for fixing minor thingies, and not even for fixing important bugs.
I need AT LEAST two months of TOTAL break, or I will be forced to announce retirement.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Tireless Rage does not grant +4 to Con and Str.



I know that you need a break Littiz. If this doesn't get fixed this time then maybe next.....

[T.G.Maestro]

There won't be anymore: I will have a HUGE break from Refinements.

Sounds bad.

[T.G.Maestro]

No matter, I corrected two new bugs pointed out by Rathwellin:

- Tireless Rage now properly adds the bonuses to STR and CON;
- removed aVENGERs Crippling Strike from the rogue HLA tables and restored Greater Evasion (he simply saved his version of Cripple to spcl914, overwriting the original HLA). This is a bug from the Rogue Rebalancing mod, and is now corrected if someone installs Refinements on top of it.

[Bane]

lo all, I think no one has posted this problem so I will explain my predicament.

I went solo with an undead hunter and I went to watcher's keep after the Underdark. I have capped at 10.5 mill points (level 40) and all the new HLA's work (very well done with those they are great) except repluse undead, I have chosen this ability 3 times but I can't use it (doesn't show up and therefore a waste of a HLA) I was wondering if anyone knows what it could be I don't think any of the mods I have is to blame. Other than that all the powers and new parts work

Thanx

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Confirmed on my 1.0 build.

Also Cripple seems to act a bit odd when the target already has a 10 or less Str. They get an Ability Drained icon but their stat stays the same. Confused me for a moment.

[T.G.Maestro]

repluse undead, I have chosen this ability 3 times but I can't use it (doesn't show up and therefore a waste of a HLA)

Are you sure it doesn't show up as an innate (it is not a spell!)? It appears on my PC clearly... Anyway, I'm going to test it later today, and if there is any problem with it, I'll correct that.

Also Cripple seems to act a bit odd when the target already has a 10 or less Str. They get an Ability Drained icon but their stat stays the same.

I couldn't come up with a solution for this one, it is merely an aesthetic flaw. Cripple reduces STR to 10, but I cannot set the spell to check the STR score of victims BEFORE the attack was made - maybe by script, but I would like to avoid that. So it seems it will stay as it is (BTW, you are using Cripple, and not Crippling Strike, right?)

[T.G.Maestro]

OK guys, I located and corrected the Repulse Undead bug, along with another oe in the Cavalier HLA table.

The UH version Repulse Undead was mistakenly labeled as a 5th lvl Priest Spell instead of Innate, and since paladins cannot cast 5th level spells...
It will appear correctly as an innate in the next build (after I collect another bunch of fixes and manage to put them into the mod without using WeiDU AND messing up stuff).

The other bug was in the Virtue ability of Cavaliers. It should be a passive HLA, yet the table handled it as a normal ability. This made the Exorcism HLA unselectable for this kit. Fixed. For v1.4, that is.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The 1.3 version of Energy Storm does not appear to do any damage to the caster.

[T.G.Maestro]

The 1.3 version of Energy Storm does not appear to do any damage to the caster

Not only that.. it is COMPLETELY buggy. The visuals, the effects, everything.

Anyway, I *once again* corrected this - the .pro files were responsible. It seems a little mistery to me, but the WeiDU install messed things up entirely on this spell - or Littiz assigned the wrong projectile to the wrong .spl file. I checked my outgoing mail to confirm this, and I'm positive I sent the correct files (hey, it WAs working on my PC before I installed 1.3 ), just as I wrote here:

Sorry, my last package was indeed a bit chaotic, I had to send it in
a
> hurry. This time I try to add as much details as possible (and I send you
> ALL the files of Energy Storm;P):
>
> -TG#ENES.spl ---> The main file
> -TG#ENE2.spl ---> the file responsible for the Wing Buffet effect, it uses
> the TG#ENES2 projectile
> -TG#ENE3.spl ---> the file responsible for the damage on self, no
projectile
> -TG#ENE4.spl ---> responsible for the damage, slow, miscast effects, it
uses
> the TG#ENES3 projectile

So. I re-organized these files, and it works perfect. Since v1.4 won't come tomorrow, I'd advise the following to make this spell work as intended on your computers as well:
1.: Open the main Refinements folder in your BG2 directory;
2.: Open Hlab\Sorcerer;
3a.: Open the TG#ENE4.spl file by using DLTCEP.
3b.: Go to the "Extension Headers" option, and change its projectile from TG#TOXT (come on, what was this doing here?? ) to TG#ENE3. Since WeiDU installs these .pro files to the override folder, they must show up in the Projectile.ids list. If ready, copy this version of TG#ENE4 to the override.
4a.: Open Hlab\Sorcerer\Copy;
4b.: You'll find the CORRECT version of TG#ENE3 here, simply copy it to the override.

I hope this helps. This way you can use ES as it was intended . I'll add these corrections to v1.4.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 13 May 2004 - 04:49 AM.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Will do. I should have some time tonight or tomorrow AM my time to make this happen.

[Littiz]

BLOOD WARS
(Episode III/1)

Blaming me now....
TGM don't you see that you're still unaware of portability issues??!
What do you think is the purpose of WeiDU? It's worth nothing if the files you send work in YOUR last installation, with your last settings.

[ES story]
I didn't want another version of ES since I knew it was going to cause troubles, and the previous one was working (AT LAST!). But you wanted it, despite the fact that I repeatedly warned you that I hadn't time for all the fixing that new stuff would be going to need.
So I refused to check it when I received the new ES the first time.
I tested later, just by chance, and as usual, it didn't work.
So, against my whole will, I start to investigate the problem. I check your files, having also to re-run the installer and close-restart the game several times, bang my head on the monitor and all. At last I find that the problem is in the projectiles.
When I tell you, you reply "sorry the package was a bit messy, here's the correct one". And you send the same files!
So I try to be a bit more intuitive, and I tell you that maybe the projectile labeled "3" is buggy, also I notice that the spell labelled "4", the only one that isn't WeiDU patched, has an unknown PRO assigned (I can tell it only from the number, since of course we DON'T have the same installation!!!).
I suggest that MAYBE you wanted a PRO assigned to it, but somehow always forgot to send it.
You reply that you're sorry, even the last package was messy, and you send again the SAME files!
So I push you to LIST once and for all what the hell are the projectile assignments you want, and what? You say that ENE3 must be assigned to ENE4, while ENE3 must get nothing!!!!!
(I did think about such a possibility, but I discarded it as "too much"... go figure)
[/ES story]

EDIT: I've found what causes the bug in the last build anyway.
The files are all patched as per your "ordening", but then one is still copied with the old inherited name and overwrites the other one.
My fault, but see what happens when you assign a PRO "3" to spell "4", you cannot avoid bugs even when trying to be careful...
Highly "unmantainable code", would call it software engineers...

About SA and the modification you *forced* without my permission.
Now, consider closely your behaviour:
you suggest an aesthetical change, but I reply that the setting was intentional. No, it's not a life-threatening issue, but you know how much I worked on the kit, and you know that NO evident setting can be there by accident.
In any case, I did reply that it was intentional.
And what do you do?
You force-change it NONETHELESS, and RELEASE a modified build!!!! When it's done it's done, uh?
When spellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netI ask you to undo the change, what do you reply?
That you'll change it back ONLY if I give you a good reason for that visual setting!!!!
In the meanwhile, the mod has been out for one or two days, so people get your version...
(No, you can't make a parallel with my removal of Balthazar's component. I left it there, without touching it, until bugs showed up.
And there were also requests about various issues you weren't able to address, like compatibility, and you didn't even remember what exactly your changes were, so all of the troubles were about to fall on my shoulders once again).

Now, maybe you see better why I need a break.
I do lack time desperately, I'm truly working 12 hours/day or more (no-kidding!) and I'm stealing time from my 7 hours sleep just to give this reply.
But work is not the only reason why I need a break

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 15 May 2004 - 11:08 PM.

[T.G.Maestro]

BLOOD WARS
(Episode III/2)

Hhh... these constant problems..

Sometimes I really feel we are seeing things from a different PoV, but this wouldn't be troublesome in itself. Let me explain things a bit. While I 101% understand your motives and your words, I would like to warn you on a few facts that you see entirely different. And maybe - MAYBE - you could at least assume that while I'm "chaotic, unreliable, and so on", it comes from a fact that I'm an almost ebtirely different person than you. Its not that one of us is better or anything, simply we are different. You may like things I hate and you may dispise my dreams - this is normal. But again, please. Be at least a BIT more tolerant Littiz. I don't talk rude to you, don't flame you, don't criticise your moves, anything. I KNOW that I'm not that pecise, and believe me, I don't like it at all. But you can flame me every day for it, I won't be able to change myself in a few months - yet I try. I try to be more organized with stuff, I try to learn all the things you mentioned (I'm not a software engineer, it takes me MUCH more time, believe it or not ), and try to follow your suggestions in almost everything related to this mod. But there are a few things I can't accept this easy you know.

For example this ES issue. Yes, those files may not be well organized, but they aren't

Highly "unmantainable code",

. The "ordering" I sent you was 100% clear I think, I couldn't be more precise. And sorry, I wasn't *blaming* you, I simply pointed to the fact, that you missed/confused something. I think you are human, the same like me. We all make mistakes, and there is REALLY no need to bite my head off simply because I said this. Especially not when it WAS a mistake. Do you know how many mistakes I do day by day on this mod? Hundreds. And you always warn me of them - I don't remember flaming you for this. And true, again - you ARE more precise, so I almost always apologize for my disorder, and try to organize things better.
And sorry but the first few sentences of your post are really a bit harsh.

TGM don't you see that you're still unaware of portability issues??! 
What do you think is the purpose of WeiDU? It's worth nothing if the files you send work in YOUR last installation, with your last settings.

I don't think this has anything to do with the current problem on ES, so I think I don't deserve this.

Now, about my "forced" modifications.

you suggest an aesthetical change, but I reply that the setting was intentional. No, it's not a life-threatening issue, but you know how much I worked on the kit, and you know that NO evident setting can be there by accspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netspellholdstudios.netident.
In any case, I did reply that it was intentional.
And what do you do?
You force-change it NONETHELESS, and RELEASE a modified build!!!!

Yes, I suggested it, because it looked bad. Really. I accept it was intended to look like that, but still it looked bad. Remember when I draw those icons? Remember each time something was at least a BIT out of place? You sent me back those files 10+ times to redo them, to reach perfection - and I gladly accepted your attitude on these, since I saw the flaws you emntioned. And I corrected them 10+ times. I could have say that : "Hey, how dare you criticse them, these are intentional!!?" Guess what your reply would be. Now please see the similarity of these issues, but thi time we are on different sides. You make a VVC for my modified visual and add it to the kit. I think it looks completely misplaced, and ask you to change/modify it at least. And that modification was: to display it 1cm higher on the character. Did you try my version at least, the one I've send you? No. As you said, you "rejected" it. I asked you to give at least ONE reson for me why we should use your version. The reply was: it is intentional. I REALLY hope you see the slight change in your attitude as well here.
But don't get me wrong, I'll gladly change it back to your version. My only intent with the modification on it was to make it look better, and I thought you'd be happy. Honest.

And there were also requests about various issues you weren't able to address, like compatibility

I answered this question at least 2 times: it IS compatible with the said mods.

you didn't even remember what exactly your changes were

I remember, the only problem was that I haven't wirtten them in the docs. I will do it once we start to work again.

But work is not the only reason why I need a break

Sorry, but let me ignore this Littiz. Sometimes you see me a "little" bit darker than you should. Really, I don't want to fight you over these things, and I also accept your reasons on MANY points of these arguments. But please, notice your own faults too, and try to believe that I don't want to "minimize/forget/annoy/tire" you 24h/day.

Peace.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 15 May 2004 - 11:07 PM.