10 replies to this topic

[agb1]

Rules involving a Scales of Balance component:
 

Spoiler

Line 209: Sensible weapon restrictions conflict=C:item_rev(0)|scales_of_balance(122|123):ashesofembers(14|15)
Line 217: Increase Spear Range and Damage=C:item_rev(17)|scales_of_balance(102):P5Tweaks(60):ashesofembers(3)
Line 219: Weapon Proficiency conflict 2=C:scales_of_balance(121|122):polytweak(95|97)|BG2_Tweaks(2160|2161|2162):level1npcs(1)
Line 221: IR overlaps with Might and Guile/SCS item tweaks=CW:item_rev(0|1):scales_of_balance(101|102|103):stratagems(3010|3021|3022)
Line 222: Alter weapon restrictions for Druids=C:scales_of_balance(121|122):item_rev(1091|1093)
Line 223: Alter weapon restrictions for Priests=C:scales_of_balance(121|122)|f_n_p(102):item_rev(1090|1091|1092|1093)
Line 224: Universal Clubs (proficiency and usability tweak)=C:scales_of_balance(102):BG2_Tweaks(2040)
Line 256: ;Magic resistance overhaul=C:scales_of_balance(180)
Line 260: Alter APR progression=C:scales_of_balance(122):BP(60):BG2_Tweaks(2210)
Line 264: THAC0 tables conflicts=C:scales_of_balance(122)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BG2_Tweaks(2180|2240|2241):kit_rev(110)
Line 268: ;Alter effects of STR stat (weight capacity, lockbash, damage, THAC0)=C:scales_of_balance(200)
Line 269: ;Alter effects of DEX stat (AC and THACO)=C:scales_of_balance(200)
Line 270: ;Alter effects of WIS stat (lore, bonus spells for druid and priest)=C:scales_of_balance(200)
Line 272: ;Alter effects of CHA stat (new effects)=C:scales_of_balance(200)
Line 273: Alter effects of CON stat (HP bonuses, HP progression, regeneration, fatigue)=C:scales_of_balance(205):BG2_Tweaks(3000|3001)
Line 274: Alter effects of INT stat (chance and cap to learn spells, max spell level, maze dice)=C:scales_of_balance(200):BG2_Tweaks(3030|3031)
Line 277: Modify racial stats table=C:scales_of_balance(200):Vic(0)
Line 282: Modify XP required per level=C:scales_of_balance(210):kit_rev(130):HideKt(1)
Line 289: Scales of Balance WPO part 2 needs part 1=D:scales_of_balance(122):scales_of_balance(121)
Line 763: Weapon Proficiency Overhaul needs TobEx=D:scales_of_balance(122):TobEx(100)|BG2EE|BG1EE
Line 780: Kit Revision core component conflicts=C:scales_of_balance(121|122|123):might_and_guile(250|255|260|265)|aTweaks(120|125)|Kitpack6(0)|KonTwk(9)|LostItems(2):kit_rev(0)
Line 781: Grandmastery conflicts=C:scales_of_balance(122|123)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BP(60):BG2_Tweaks(2210):kit_rev(100):BDToBv173(6)|BDToBv168(4):Ariena(4)
Line 831: Alter Druid spell progression=C:scales_of_balance(210)|might_and_guile(215)|Divine_Remix(200)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BP(50):BG2_Tweaks(2010|2292|2293|2294|2295|2296|2290|2291)
Line 834: Alter Priest spell progression=C:scales_of_balance(210)|might_and_guile(215)|Divine_Remix(100)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BP(50):BG2_Tweaks(2010|2280|2281)

 

Rules involving a Might and Guile component:
 

Spoiler

Line 261: Alter Saving Throws progression and racial bonuses=C:might_and_guile(160):atweaks(213)
Line 262: Modify types of Saving Throws granted by spells=CW:spell_rev(0):might_and_guile(160)
Line 764: Multiclass Kits need TobEx=D:might_and_guile(500):TobEx(100)|BG2EE|BG1EE
Line 782: Archer kit tweaks=C:might_and_guile(255)|A7#ImprovedArcher(0):Kitpack6(4)
Line 783: Multiclass Tweaks vs Hidden Kits conflict=C:might_and_guile(500):HideKt(0)
Line 784: Racial Multiclass Restrictions=C:might_and_guile(500):BG2_Tweaks(2350|2351|2352)
Line 790: ;  might_and_guile(270) replaces Blade, Skald kits
Line 798: ;Might and Guile can be installed after RR to get RR's Trueclass Bard and Jester with Might and Guile's Blade and Skald=CW:might_and_guile(270)|RR(4)
Line 799: Conflicting changes to Bard kits=C:might_and_guile(270)|RR(4|5):BardSong_BG2_IWD(0)
Line 805: ;  might_and_guile(420) replaces Swashbuckler kit
Line 809: ;Might and Guile can be installed after RR to get Might and Guile Swashbuckler with RR's Assassin and Bounty Hunter=CW:might_and_guile(420)|RR(1)
Line 814: Partial conflict (backstabbing tweaks)=CW:might_and_guile(420)|RR(1):fullplate(204)
Line 817: Class Rebalancing conflicts #1=C:might_and_guile(255|260|265):Kitpack6(0)
Line 830: Alter Bard spell progression=C:might_and_guile(215|270)|RR(6)|song_and_silence(0)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BP(50):BG2_Tweaks(2010|2270|2271):z#misc(18)
Line 832: Alter Mage spell progression=C:might_and_guile(215)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):klatu(2190):BP(50):BG2_Tweaks(2010|2260|2261)
Line 833: Alter Paladin spell progression=C:might_and_guile(215)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BP(50):BG2_Tweaks(2010):z#misc(19)
Line 835: Alter Ranger spell progression=C:might_and_guile(215|255)|TDD(0)|RoT(0):BP(50):BG2_Tweaks(2010):z#misc(17)

[subtledoctor]

Whoa... there's a lot to look at. What do you want, me to look at each conflict (is that, each "Line ###: ..." line?) and tell you if there is actually a conflict? I can take a shot at that.

Btw it's probably worth using Might & Guile v2.0, which I just uploaded to GitHub as a pre-release:
https://github.com/s...eleases/tag/2.0

Notably, the old component #255 "Revised Ranger Kits" has now been broken down into 3 components:
- #225 "Revised Stalker kit"
- #230 "Revised Archer kit"
- #235 "Revised Beastmaster kit"

Component #260 "Revised Kensai kit" has been completely re-written. But the changes should not affect any conflict rules.

Also please note that the pre-release of SoB has been bumped to 5.0.1, now component #122 detects and works with the new MnG v2 Revised Kensai.
https://github.com/s...eases/tag/5.0.1

No changes for you to worry about though, except the new download link.

Edited by subtledoctor, 12 February 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[agb1]

The Line ### is just an artifact of my grep search.  The conflict rules are C : mod-name(comp-nums separated by vertical bars) : some-other-mod-name that conflicts with the previous(comp-nums) : etc.  Only components separated by : are considered to be in conflict.  Components separated by | but not by : are part of the same group and can be installed together without any complaint from BWS.

 

It would be great if you could check at least whether I identified the correct SoB and M&G components in each of those rules (and if the rule descriptions aren't clear, we can improve those too).  I will update to M&G 2.0 shortly...

[subtledoctor]

Okay, the SoB conflicts first:

209: SoB is designed to work with IR. Using them together will give players the specific SoB rules on top of the base IR rules. SoN should be installed later. (SoB v5 should be installed very late, probably after SCS and aTweaks.) SoB patches item usability, so installing it after Ashes of Embers should have either no effect (players will get the AoE system) or a blended effect (usability expansion from both mods - maybe slightly different, but fully functional). So no hard conflict, I think, just player choice.

217: Should be no conflict. Installing SoB after AoE will give the AiE spear range, and the SoB spear damage (1d8+1)

219: Probably a hard conflict. SoB #121/122 should not be mixed with those BG2Tweaks or L1NPCs components. I don't know what the Polytweak component is, but probably a hard conflict there as well.

221: Mostly no conflicts with IR or SCS. But the "Replace +1 items with Fine ones" will conflict. The player should choose one or the other.

222 and 223: Should be no conflict - SoB expands usability beyond IR, and restricts item use by proficiency restrictions instead. BUT there is no reason to install these together. If someone wants to use SoB #121/122, they should not install IR 1090-1093. So call this a soft conflict, with preference for SoB over IR.

224: No conflict - both mods patch the same items in the same way, so they are redundant but compatible. No need for the BG2Tweaks component if you use SoB #122, so maybe call it a soft conflict with preference for SoB.

256: These are identical but only the SoB version will be updated in the future. MRO has been removed from MnG v2, but if anyone wants to use MnG v1.6, call this a hard conflict with preference for SoB.

260: Hard conflict. One or the other, player choice. Do not combine.

264: Soft conflict - nothing game-breaking, but these all overwrite thac0.2da. They can be mixed, but some behavior might change slightly change (someone's thac0 might be different by 1-4 points). Last one installed will control.

268-272: These have been removed from MnG v2. For legacy use of MnG v1.6, call this a hard conflict with preference for SoB.

273: Ditto for MnG. Hard conflict with BG2Tweaks, player choice.

274: No conflict, they alter different resources (SoB does not touch INTMOD.2da)

277: Hard conflict, player choice.

282: Hard conflict, player choice.

289: SoB #122 has a REQUIRE_COMPONENT for #121. You can use 121 by itself, or use both together. You cannot use 122 by itself.

763: #122 only requires ToBEx in the original engine. That requirement does not apply to EE installs.

780: KR + SoB 122 = soft conflict, but a serious one. You can probably play with these together - I wouldn't completely disallow it - but game balance might go slightly out the window. Actually I'd love it if someone tested this combination and reported back to me...

781: I think these all overwrite WSPATCK.2da. Semi-hard conflict, usable together, but last mod wins.

831: Soft conflict: SoB #210 overwrites XPLEVEL.2da and MXSPLDRU.2da, changing the Druid level and spellcasting progression. Usable together, but last mod wins.

834: SoB #210 has no conflict here. It overwrites XPLEVEL.2da, so it's a soft conflict with anything that does as well (usable together, last mod wins). It has no conflict with spell tables. SoB #215 is disabled and should not be available in BWS.

-whew!-

[subtledoctor]

Might 'n' Guile:

261, 262: The STO has been removed from
MnG v2. I'm not sure if/where it will land... it might be added to Tome & Blood.

264: the ToBEx requirement doesn't apply to EE installs. No problem here.

782: NB this is now #230 in v2. Hard conflict, Do Not Combine.

783: Semi-hard conflict. You could probably play with these together, but the results might be unpredictable. Or maybe MnG will disable some of the functionality of Hidden Kits. Do Not Combine Unless You Are Willing To Accept The Consequences.

784: I think no conflict, or a minimal one anyway. I forget exactly which components of Tweaks those are... but I play with both MnG and Tweaks.

790: MnG doesn't replace those kits anymore, now it patches them.

798: I think your description is correct.

799: No conflict, I think. I don't change vanilla kits' bard song, and I *think* I patch the CLAB files instead of overwriting, so RR's changes should be preserved by MnG. I think.

805: MnG *renames* the Swashbuckler to the "Scout," and adds a new Swashy. So...

809: Correct, and the RR Swashy changes should be reflected in the Scout.

814: Soft conflict with FPPS #204. Won't break your game though, in fact it might be perfectly playable. FPPS (installed last) behavior will win.

817: Semi-hard conflict. Do Not Combine.

830, 832, 833, 835: MnG #215 has been removed. I think there is no conflict with the rest.

[agb1]

219: Probably a hard conflict. SoB #121/122 should not be mixed with those BG2Tweaks or L1NPCs components. I don't know what the Polytweak component is, but probably a hard conflict there as well.

Polytweak components are:

95=Related Weapon Proficiencies -> Related Weapon Proficiencies except clubs (see readme)

97=Related Weapon Proficiencies -> Related Weapon Proficiencies including clubs

From mod readme:  

Spoiler

1) RELATED WEAPON PROFICIENCIES: I always thought it strange that a grandmaster of the longsword would fumble with a bastard sword, or that a crack shot with a longbow would be unable to hit the side of a barn with a short bow.

Polytweak RWPs groups similar weapons together: Long swords and bastard swords; scimitars and katanas; clubs and maces (...depending on install choice); shortbows and longbows. Specialization in a weapon type automatically grants proficienct use of similar weapons (however class restrictions are respected i.e. fighter druids can't get proficiency in katana or mace nor can swashbucklers get proficiency in bastard sword), likewise high mastery of a weapon imparts specialization in all "relatives".

You will need to turn party AI on for a couple of seconds after joining a new NPC or allocating their proficiencies in order for this component to work, as the changes are applied by script.

This component should be compatible with "Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies" from BG2 Tweak Pack.

 

221: Mostly no conflicts with IR or SCS. But the "Replace +1 items with Fine ones" will conflict. The player should choose one or the other.

Did I identify the correct SoB components here?

 

268-272: These have been removed from MnG v2. For legacy use of MnG v1.6, call this a hard conflict with preference for SoB.

I'm confused.  I already changed these former M&G component rules to SoB rules instead.  All components from M&G that were moved to SoB will only be selectable as their new SoB versions.  BWS will be updated to only use the latest M&G.

 

763: #122 only requires ToBEx in the original engine. That requirement does not apply to EE installs.

Noted.  This is the one and only dependency rule ( starts with D: ) in the list I provided.  It has |BG2EE|BG1EE so the dependency is satisfied if the game type is one of those.  I will add IWD:EE too.

 

831: Soft conflict: SoB #210 overwrites XPLEVEL.2da and MXSPLDRU.2da, changing the Druid level and spellcasting progression. Usable together, but last mod wins.

Does M&G 215 still modify MXSPLDRU.2da ?

 

834: SoB #210 has no conflict here. It overwrites XPLEVEL.2da, so it's a soft conflict with anything that does as well (usable together, last mod wins). It has no conflict with spell tables. SoB #215 is disabled and should not be available in BWS.

Did you mean M&G 215 here?

[agb1]

784: I think no conflict, or a minimal one anyway. I forget exactly which components of Tweaks those are... but I play with both MnG and Tweaks.

BG2 Tweaks:

2350=Alter Multiclass Restrictions -> Allow humans to multiclass

2351=Alter Multiclass Restrictions -> Allow non-humans acces to all multiclass combinations

2352=Alter Multiclass Restrictions -> Install both of the above options

 

799: No conflict, I think. I don't change vanilla kits' bard song, and I *think* I patch the CLAB files instead of overwriting, so RR's changes should be preserved by MnG. I think.

The fault here is with the Bard Song Switching (Icewind Dale Mode) mod -- it replaces the bard kits entirely.  For this rule I marked M&G and RR as compatible ( used | between them instead of : ).

 

MnG 270 doesn't alter bard spell progression now?  Think it did in the past.

MnG 255 doesn't alter ranger spell progression now?  Think it did in the past.

[subtledoctor]

Bear with me - I can't do quotes on my phone with these stupid forums.

- Polytweak: Actuallybthat is probably compatible. Behavior might be a bit weird (spec in long sword gives prof in bastard sword, but bastard sword prof doesn't exist in SoB) ...but it won't break anything.

- +1 items replaced by fine/masterwork/mastercraft ones: this is in SoB #101.

- Legacy versions of MnG: the 1.6.2 release link will still work, and some players might want to use this for the cleric multiclass kits, or something. That's fine with me, but if they do, the overhauls and game tweaks should be installed via SoB v5. Perhaps it goes without saying... I'm saying it anyway.

- MnG #215 is disabled. SoB #215 is disabled, or doesn't exist....

You might notice that the SoB v5 and MnG v2 component numbers run together: SoB is 100 to 210; MnG is 220 to 500. If someone wanted, they could put the .tp2 and .tra files together and have a single working mod (that was basically MnG v1.6).

#215 was more appropriate for SoB, theme-wise; but it needs to be installed before the MnG components. It didn't quite work in either place... so I just eliminated it. The code is still in MnG because I use it myself. But it's commented out. Maybe this should also migrate to Tone & Blood...

[Greenhorn]

Hey subtledoctor, I think this thread is good as any to ask you few questions about your APR fix since I can't find relevant thread elsewhere. First I would like to know where I can see it's readme and second, how placing Melf's minute meteors and Energy blades in inventory instead in weapon slot works with enemy spellcasters who use this spells since I know at least one mod which allows enemy casters to MAYBE use them...

[subtledoctor]

No Readme - I whipped that modlet up in a few minutes and stopped paying attention to it. If you read the bug report about this over on the Beamdog forums:
https://forums.beamd...y-blades-apr/p1

... you can basically see that my fix is based on someone else's research into the issue.

In fact if you read the posts by Timebomb and myself on that thread, you can see that spells creating weapons can be affected by no less than *three* serious bugs - the APR issue, crashes caused when created weapons are set to "replace with used up" for depleted ammo, and opcode 143 not working.

(Someone has actually told me that my solution doesn't even work! Though, it was an isolated report, so who knows.)

Anyway Beamdog is definitely aware of these bugs, so I'm really really hoping to see them fixed in the upcoming patch. This modlet was only ever intended as a bandage to tide people over until the patch drops.

Meantime, will AI use the weapons? I have no idea. I know Demivrgvs has made something similar in SRv4, this is how his version of Magic Stone works. And I've definitely seen AI clerics using that spell against me. So maybe it's worth asking him over on the SR forums at G3 whether there is any extra scripting associated with it, or if the AI just knows how to do it.

[Greenhorn]

No Readme - I whipped that modlet up in a few minutes and stopped paying attention to it. If you read the bug report about this over on the Beamdog forums:
https://forums.beamd...y-blades-apr/p1

... you can basically see that my fix is based on someone else's research into the issue.

In fact if you read the posts by Timebomb and myself on that thread, you can see that spells creating weapons can be affected by no less than *three* serious bugs - the APR issue, crashes caused when created weapons are set to "replace with used up" for depleted ammo, and opcode 143 not working.

(Someone has actually told me that my solution doesn't even work! Though, it was an isolated report, so who knows.)

Anyway Beamdog is definitely aware of these bugs, so I'm really really hoping to see them fixed in the upcoming patch. This modlet was only ever intended as a bandage to tide people over until the patch drops.

Meantime, will AI use the weapons? I have no idea. I know Demivrgvs has made something similar in SRv4, this is how his version of Magic Stone works. And I've definitely seen AI clerics using that spell against me. So maybe it's worth asking him over on the SR forums at G3 whether there is any extra scripting associated with it, or if the AI just knows how to do it.

I see. Stuff from that link  probably affects no EE games as well. Thanks.