59 replies to this topic

[Greenhorn]

And exploring the Academy involved a neat twist, which put my party into a... position which no other Infinity Engine game or mod that I played has done before (AFAICR), and which I found pretty exciting when it happened.

 Man, what a cliffhanger.   You seriously have big talent for advertising.   Dying of curiosity here, can't wait to try it. 

[Roxanne]

The CtB components which I liked the most, were:

• The Ancient Library
• The Academy of Kuldin

Probably because they weren't actual quests (and thus didn't suffer from cheesiness/weirdness), and because their area graphics were taken from the beautiful Icewind Dale games...

Basically they're just two big(-ish) locations to explore with lots of enemies to kill. Doesn't sound too exciting when put like that, but the types of enemies were pretty interesting (and challenging) to fight, and included some which you wouldn't otherwise meat in the Baldur's Gate series. And what little implied backstory there was, fit together really well with the area graphics and the monster/item placement, so overall it created a pretty atmospheric and enjoyable experience.

 

The Library also had a huuuuuge number of unique books, many of them with custom inventory icons, which I thought was pretty cool:

 

And exploring the Academy involved a neat twist, which put my party into a... position which no other Infinity Engine game or mod that I played has done before (AFAICR), and which I found pretty exciting when it happened.

 

As I already implied in my first post, they had some overpowered loot though.

Shows how different players tastes in mods are and how hard it is to evaluate a mod like CtB with a large variety of choices.

The good thing in this mod is, that you can select and play the episodes in any order and whenever you want - or simply leave those you are not interested in aside. What more can you ask.

[Ineth]

Shows how different players tastes in mods are and how hard it is to evaluate a mod like CtB with a large variety of choices.

The good thing in this mod is, that you can select and play the episodes in any order and whenever you want - or simply leave those you are not interested in aside. What more can you ask.

Yeah, but usually you don't know how a quest or area will turn out when you enter it...

 

For example, another area added by CtB was one of the large lower levels of Durlag's Tower (from BG1) transplanted below a certain basement in Athkatla. And it contained absolutely nothing of interest. There were just some of the original BG1 monsters which were no match for my high-level BG2 party - and no backstory, loot, puzzles, or anything. Exploring that whole thing felt completely pointless.

I wonder if it was supposed to be filled with more interesting content, and it either just didn't install correctly on the EE, or it required finding and starting a quest for it first? The way I experienced it though, that particular area was no fun.

[Roxanne]

Shows how different players tastes in mods are and how hard it is to evaluate a mod like CtB with a large variety of choices.

The good thing in this mod is, that you can select and play the episodes in any order and whenever you want - or simply leave those you are not interested in aside. What more can you ask.

Yeah, but usually you don't know how a quest or area will turn out when you enter it...

 

For example, another area added by CtB was one of the large lower levels of Durlag's Tower (from BG1) transplanted below a certain basement in Athkatla. And it contained absolutely nothing of interest. There were just some of the original BG1 monsters which were no match for my high-level BG2 party - and no backstory, loot, puzzles, or anything. Exploring that whole thing felt completely pointless.

I wonder if it was supposed to be filled with more interesting content, and it either just didn't install correctly on the EE, or it required finding and starting a quest for it first? The way I experienced it though, that particular area was no fun.

There are some class specific tasks in the mod - I do not remember which one has its episode in that dungeon, they are not easy to find. If your PC has another class, there is nothing in some areas like this one.

[Lollorian]

Planarspheremod EE compatibility stuff

BWPFixpack'd

 

Not tested

[Fouinto]

Shows how different players tastes in mods are and how hard it is to evaluate a mod like CtB with a large variety of choices.

The good thing in this mod is, that you can select and play the episodes in any order and whenever you want - or simply leave those you are not interested in aside. What more can you ask.

Yeah, but usually you don't know how a quest or area will turn out when you enter it...

 

For example, another area added by CtB was one of the large lower levels of Durlag's Tower (from BG1) transplanted below a certain basement in Athkatla. And it contained absolutely nothing of interest. There were just some of the original BG1 monsters which were no match for my high-level BG2 party - and no backstory, loot, puzzles, or anything. Exploring that whole thing felt completely pointless.

I wonder if it was supposed to be filled with more interesting content, and it either just didn't install correctly on the EE, or it required finding and starting a quest for it first? The way I experienced it though, that particular area was no fun.

 

You are wrong this area is useful... it just depends of the the class of protagonist (if I remember well, it's a part of the mage quest of CTB)...

There a are many events/quests that depends on the class of charname... you can't see all of them in one run The French walkthrough above allow you to know what you need to trigger most of events/quests...

[Greenhorn]

Mmm, what player class to chose? Thief/mage should do the trick, I hope. Planar sphere mod + Expanded thief stronghold + Nalia romance ( free fighter stronghold ) + CtB class quests... Beautiful combo...

[subtledoctor]

What more can you ask.

 

I could ask for the mod not to throw superpowered nondisintegrating drow armor all over the surface world... just as a 'for instance.'

[Ithildur]

What more can you ask.

 

I could ask for the mod not to throw superpowered nondisintegrating drow armor all over the surface world... just as a 'for instance.'

 

 

Seeing this alone was enough to convince me to stay away from CtB; unfortunate, as some of the content does sound interesting... but if the author had that much disregard for both lore and game balance/mechanics I'm guessing as a whole the mod won't appeal to me.

 

Honestly, after playing TDD for about an hour years ago, I've never installed any of the so called 'mega mods'; I'm sure many have their moments and redeeming qualities, but overall they do all seem to be chock full of ridiculously unbalanced content (as well as subpar writing, occasionally horrible typos, grammar, etc) - reading what people say about their gameplay experience (whether they enjoyed the mods or not) sounds akin to a trip to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory where everyone gluts themselves on massive overdose of candy, which for me would ruin the enjoyment of dinner (the main game content -  which already has enough candy on it's own especially in BG2/ToB).

Edited by Ithildur, 15 January 2016 - 12:10 AM.

[subtledoctor]

Hm, I just noticed this post. Those quotes must have been edited in after it was originally published. They are taken quite out of context and should really not be connected with the Sandrah mod, since they were not written in connection with it. They were not discussing any specific mod - though if you pin me down, I would say they are about DSotSC and TDD. (Also the bolded text was not in the original - bad form altering a quote like that without noting "emphasis added" or something like that...)

Recentli I've seen Sandrah mod reedme and it looks like collection of best ideas of last years. How it plays? Someone tried Return to Faerun part of it already?

Please - Please Leave Sandrah out of this discussion
a) it is a Beta state mod still under development and test, far from being stable - only to be used in expert install
b) It is a mega mod and by that another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk* (1)
c) It only works in a large installation contents and only with BGT (and EET, once it is stable)
d) It will be abandoned as soon as NTotSC and TDD become available for EET and EET will be published after SoD release.
Do not consider it here
 
(1)
The bigger "mega" mods that add more super-powerful spells!! more super powerful magic weapons!! more super powerful enemies!! reach level 30 before starting SoA!!... I think they are generally buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk that affirmatively *harm* the experience of playing the rest of the game. Strip them of all loot, magic, artificially-buffed enemies, and XP rewards and turn them into good quests with interesting characters and well-written stories, and I'll take another look. But for now, '1's across the board.
subtledoctor, 23 December 2015 - 05:41 PM.
 
This pretty much sums it up I guess....
kreso Posted 25 December 2015 - 02:30 AM
 
 
 

Edited by subtledoctor, 16 January 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[Ineth]

What more can you ask.

 

I could ask for the mod not to throw superpowered nondisintegrating drow armor all over the surface world... just as a 'for instance.'

 

Seeing this alone was enough to convince me to stay away from CtB; unfortunate, as some of the content does sound interesting... but if the author had that much disregard for both lore and game balance/mechanics I'm guessing as a whole the mod won't appeal to me.

 

Well to be fair, the drow armor in CtB is not literally available all over the surface world. It is available in an underground "drow outpost" which happens to be accessible from chapter 2 in BG2. The fact that they do not disintegrate upon return to the surface, might have been an oversight or even a bug.

[Roxanne]

What more can you ask.

 

I could ask for the mod not to throw superpowered nondisintegrating drow armor all over the surface world... just as a 'for instance.'

 

Seeing this alone was enough to convince me to stay away from CtB; unfortunate, as some of the content does sound interesting... but if the author had that much disregard for both lore and game balance/mechanics I'm guessing as a whole the mod won't appeal to me.

 

Well to be fair, the drow armor in CtB is not literally available all over the surface world. It is available in an underground "drow outpost" which happens to be accessible from chapter 2 in BG2. The fact that they do not disintegrate upon return to the surface, might have been an oversight or even a bug.

That is what I meant - you can just leave it there if you think it is a cheat or exploit to use it. Those are not quest items you need to take.

[agb1]

Game lore says that drow items disintegrate in sunlight, so unless the item descriptions or other content in CtB explains the exception somehow, this is an oversight/bug and is fair game for correction.

[subtledoctor]

Or just sloppy/lazy coding, the mod author probably should have added a script to that area that made it disintegrate when you leave the screen.  But hey, no one's perfect - least of all me! - and no one has unlimited free time to spend perfecting their mod - least of all me!

 

The bigger issue is my disagreement with the very forgiving attitude of some people - "you don't HAVE to use the super OP equipment... you don't HAVE to sell the insane amount of added valuable loot and make 60x the amount of gold that's in the original game..." etc.  For me, that stuff matters a lot when I evaluate a mod (or indeed, a game).  I mean, why not make every attack roll hit for the player, and let the player decide when to miss?  Why not play with IWDEE-style Story Mode and let the player decide when to lose battles?  Even in such systems, you don't HAVE to win.  Right?

 

While it's technically right, it's also annoying for the player, and making such decisions takes their focus away from the enjoyment of playing the game, out to sitting at their desk to think about what to drop and what to sell, and how to retcon the stuff you decide to drop disappearing, and trying to visually ignore the little glowing pile of invaluable loot that you just dropped, and trying to reconcile this with the character you're playing in your head who should naturally want to acquire and use powerful stuff...

 

Long story short, that kind of thing is very un-fun and it's just poor game design. 

 

Show me a mod that understands it is a small encounter grafted into the middle of SoA, and has encounters roughly as difficult as those in the middle of SoA, and lets you finish the mod content and continue the middle of SoA still having the experience and equipment that is appropriate for the middle of SoA... THAT is good game design.  By all accounts, TDD falls down in this regard.

 

On the other hand, Fishing For Trouble and the Colours of Infinity mods seems be very good when judged by this measure.  I hear good things about Back to Brynnlaw and The Sellswords as well, I look forward to playing them in my next big run.  (Which will probably end up being an SoD/EET run, I'm going to stick with IWDEE until all that new stuff gets released and sorted out.)

[agb1]

Does anyone have permission to update CtB?  cbisson and King Diamond, the original author and the author of the last revision, have not been active on these forums for a long time.

[Fouinto]

Hoppy... but it makes so long I've not seen him...

[agb1]

Tried to send an email to cbisson's old verizon address but it is not valid any more.

[Roxanne]

Tried to send an email to cbisson's old verizon address but it is not valid any more.

Maybe if there is no maintainer for this mod - without changing the contents of it - the main issue may be to make it more modular related to the various quests it contains.

This approach would allow to have users select those components they find to their taste. It would also allow BWS for example to leave out or issue warning for (for experts/tactical only) those components that include overpowered items, overpowered fights or are buggy.

Like commented earlier, components of this mod are very diverted in contents and quality, but as a whole it would be a shame to sacrifice the light for the occasional shadow.

Maybe such an effort could be combined with making the mod compatible with EET?

[agb1]

I just sent a PM to cbisson, King Diamond and Hoppy.  I hope at least one of them will receive it and reply.

[Roxanne]

I just sent a PM to cbisson, King Diamond and Hoppy.  I hope at least one of them will receive it and reply.

I will monitor the progress - apart from some crossmod contents with a number of quests in my mod (not so important, just nice to have) . there is one area that CtB puts on the worldmap which is essential for Sandrah.

If the mod is not maintained at all I would ressurect that single area (not even the quest in it) to guarantee its presence in the game and then my whole mod would be independent of CtB. The only reason I had to do it that way, was that the CtB area was in the place my own area needed to be as well (Stormhorn Mountains).

 

Looks like I need to do it for EET anyway.

Edited by Roxanne, 19 January 2016 - 02:13 PM.