155 replies to this topic

[Munchkin Mooch]

@ Irenicus in Hell

 

There are no Irenicus components, but I found these related to Hell and Hell trials, no clue if any of them touch the same things as Tactics does. Probably not:

 

~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1190 // Hell Trial Additions: v181-b4611 BWP Fix

~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #10 // Revised Hell Trials: v3.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #108 // Remove Second Attribute Bonus for Evil Path in  Wrath Hell Trial: v10 (BWP Fixed to v11 Alpha 1)

~UB/SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0: v26beta2

 

If nothing touches him, why isn't it safe to allow Tactics' Irenicus?

 

@ weidu.exe changelogs

 

I must be doing something wrong, but it doesn't accept the input, just keeps showing more options after I press enter after having typed "--change-log gprogbar.mos" with or without the --

[agb1]

Are you running the WeiDU command in your game directory?  "weidu.exe --change-log gprogbar.mos" is the full command.

 

The Tactics Irenicus skip is a problem with the Tactics installer, not BWS.  It seems the installer is skipping unnecessarily.

[Munchkin Mooch]

It ran something, indexed/parsed some files, but then closed itself without giving me any results. I might be n00bing out here Should there be some new file somewhere? Nothing seems to have appeared.

Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 30 November 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[agb1]

OK, it looks like there wouldn't be any changes to that file.  Here is the code from BG2 Tweaks for that component:

 

//Force the game to use the SoA files in the biffs

MOVE ~override/loadcntr.bam~ ~bg2_tweaks/backup~

     ~override/gprogbar.mos~ ~bg2_tweaks/backup~

     ~override/gtrspsk.mos~  ~bg2_tweaks/backup~

     ~override/gtrspsk2.mos~ ~bg2_tweaks/backup~

     ~override/stoneopt.mos~ ~bg2_tweaks/backup~

 

So basically, for some reason, it wasn't able to move the second file.  Could you attach your setup-bg2_tweaks.debug?

[Munchkin Mooch]

Here you go.

Attached Files

•  Setup-BG2_Tweaks.debug   4.38MB   426 downloads

[agb1]

In my BGT folder the only copy of gprogbar.mos is in the 1pp mod for its optional GUI additions ("use SoA-style loading screens for ToB").  This is weird because I could have sworn I've successfully installed that BG2 Tweaks component many times before.

[Munchkin Mooch]

Maybe it's some conflict with W_GUI? Nothing else comes to mind.

 

The other file for the 50 level rule doesn't want to give me any permanent results either when I run change log on it.

 

Will you post the test build without blocking SCS AI initialization component again?

Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 30 November 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[agb1]

I don't see any conflicts between BP and SCS 5900 (AI initialization).

 

On the other hand, I did add a new conflict rule since your previous install:  SCS 6000 (general AI) vs. BP 550 (generic thieves).  The description from SCS readme clearly says that 6000 controls thieves behavior.  Do you think that rule should be removed?

 

The SCS 6000 vs. BP 150 (generic creature processing) is also a pretty clear conflict (both run through a lot of creatures/minor NPCs and apply stat/kit/item changes to them).  I will make that rule a conceptual conflict instead so you can decide to ignore it if you want...

[agb1]

Pushed these rule changes to bp-test:

 

SCS/BP Generic Creature Processing (tweak stats/items/kits/etc for many creatures) might be incompatible (needs testing)=CW:stratagems(6000):BP(150)

SCS/BP Humanoid scripts might be incompatible (needs testing)=CW:stratagems(1000):BP(650)

SCS/BP Thieves AI might be incompatible (needs testing)=CW:stratagems(6000):BP(550)

 

These are CW (conflict warning) so you can right-click ignore them when resolving conflicts on the screen after the selection tree.

[agb1]

Here is the list of tactical encounters that use BP scripts from my post on the other thread.  I would like to know if disabling BP 650 (humanoid scripts) causes humanoids to behave strangely in any of these encounters.

 

Spoiler

Creatures use BP scripts (probably should only use if also installing BP AI):

BP 1000 (generic encounters)

BP 1020 (beholder cult)

BP 1030 to 1090 (vampire encounters)

BP 1100 (improved copper coronet and slavers)

BP 1110 (brown dragon)

BP 1120 (improved crypt king)

BP 1130 (chapter 6 drizzt encounter)

BP 1140 to 1160 (druidic improvements)

BP 1170 (treant encounter)

BP 1190 (improved hell trials)

BP 1200 (Horred's Lair)

BP 1210 (Irenicus Dungeon Enhancements - except Duergar)

BP 1300 (Improved Mae'Var)

BP 1315 (Improved Nalia Quests)

BP 1330 (Tougher Tavern Brawl In the Seven Veils)

BP 1350 (Tougher Planar Prison)

BP 1375 (Planar Sphere Improvements - compatible with Planar Sphere mod)

BP 1400 (Random Encounters, by Gebhard Blucher & Kensai Ryu)

BP 1525 (Mike Barnes' Improved Small Teeth Pass)

BP 1550 to 1590 (improved spellhold)

BP 1600 (Improved Suldanessellar)

BP 1625 (Improved tanner's quest)

BP 1650 (Improved Trademeet Encounters)

BP 1675 (Wand of Orcus)

BP 1700 (Improved Windspear Hills)

BP 1750 (Improved Watchers Keep)

BP 1800 (ToB Improvements)

[Munchkin Mooch]

All right.

I'm going to push ignore on these two, because more SCS components won't work without the Smarter General AI. I'll report any bugs if they come and then we'll know if it's explosive or can co-exist

 

Why would you want BP humanoids disabled? Is it problematic? I can check if it plays nice with SCS general AI perhaps? Ignore that conflict as well?

Attached Images

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Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 30 November 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[agb1]

The conflict rule between SCS 1000 and BP 650 was in BWS before I joined the team.  I do not know what analysis was done.  Also, it might have been analysis on an older version of BP.  So I am wondering if there needs to be a dependency rule between the tactical BP components and BP 650.  But if you want to test with it enabled, that is fine too.  If we see good behavior with both mods installed, we don't need a conflict rule.

[Munchkin Mooch]

I've run installation with Humanoids enabled. Once it's done, I'll vroom through some locations and encounters, and if everything will look good, I'll check any area I didn't check that you'd want me to check. If all works good I'll post my WeiDU log as a basis for any further brain-arounding

Man, I love BWS... I remember installing mods one by one by hand according to a guide T-T

Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 30 November 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[agb1]

A thought on mixing SCS and BP:

 

- The main criticism I've heard about SCS AI is that it is too mechanical, non-random, compared to BP AI

- The SCS AI components are better described than the BP components (BP v181 readme has very little information about what the components do)

- Several SCS AI components for non-humanoids include bug fixes or other interesting aspects besides smarter behavior (e.g., SCS golems not getting stuck in doors, cursed wound weapons; smarter fiends summoned by enemy casters ignoring Protection from Evil, but only if you also use SCS Smarter Mages/Priests AI)

 

It seems to me that the most important category of AI is caster AI (mages/druids/paladins/priests/rangers).  It is here that random vs. mechanical behavior will be most apparent.  SCS readme for general AI points out that you can't do much with a melee creature in AI beyond telling them to attack nearest.

 

So when it comes to combining BP and SCS, my goals are:

 

1. Be able to use the improved encounters from both mods

2. Be able to choose either BP or SCS versions of caster AI without causing creatures (in the above encounters and elsewhere) to behave stupidly

3. Find out if installing both BP and SCS versions of caster AI together causes creatures (in the above encounters and elsewhere) to behave stupidly

4. Find out if installing both BP and SCS versions of creature AI for the same creature type causes creatures to behave stupidly

 

Also, BP has not been tested as much as SCS, so I am less sure about the quality of its AI components.  micbaldur is in the middle of a play-through with BP AI only (no SCS) so I don't think we need to actively investigate this, but it is a consideration (bad behavior observed with BP+SCS combined might be a problem with BP even without SCS).  So, if we see a bad behavior with BP+SCS, we should re-try with just BP before we decide for sure that it is a conflict.

 

Ex. BP trolls components gives them an "etherealness" ability; does that work properly?  Even if it does with just BP, it might cause problems if SCS troll AI is installed also and hasn't accounted for the possibility of ethereal (invisible?) trolls.

[The Imp]

A thought on mixing SCS and BP:

 

- The main criticism I've heard about SCS AI is that it is too mechanical, non-random, compared to BP AI

Well, if you have a spell list, then you kinda already have an optimal spell casting list...

One of the features is that SCS also randomly allocates spells on each spell level for the caster, so having two different installs, can result in a lich casting necromantic spells, while the other can result in it casting illusion spells, as their kit restricts spell selection and allows more of the same kind spells to be casted.

BP's AI can probably cast any spell it wishes as a caster doesn't need to be coded to only cast spells it has memorized, like the SCS does. Unfortunately there's only so much a AI coding can do to get an effective solo spell caster as it needs to protect itself to use damage spells... leading to most casters to depend on the same heavy protection spell regiment.

[agb1]

Unfortunately there's only so much a AI coding can do to get an effective solo spell caster as it needs to protect itself to use damage spells... leading to most casters to depend on the same heavy protection spell regiment.

Good point.  Aside from bosses, no one expects individual NPCs to put up too much of a fight.  Where AI can shine is in coordinating group behavior:

 

1. Don't chase the party too far alone (safety in numbers) but also call for help and chase in groups as far as possible (!)

2. Have melee creatures prioritize guarding casters (go whack on anyone who is attacking them)

3. Cast protective spells on fellow casters while they cast offensive spells

4. etc

[Munchkin Mooch]

For some reason the install stopped this time failing to install a component. One time occurence or deeper issue?

 

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Smarter general AI

F:\Program Files (x86)\Black Isle\BGII - SoA>

ERROR: [CLABMA01.2DA] -> [stratagems_external/workspace/CLABMA01.2DA] Patching Failed (COPY) (Failure("resource [D5_CONTI.spl] not found for 'COPY'"))
ERROR: Failure("resource [D5_CONTI.spl] not found for 'COPY'")
Smarter general AI (Sword Coast Stratagems) was not installed due to errors.

Attached Files

•  SETUP-STRATAGEMS.DEBUG   621.69K   217 downloads

Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 30 November 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[agb1]

Can you run a weidu.exe --change-log on clabma01.2da?

 

It may be a problem in might & guile component 200 which was recently updated.

 

It seems that component adds a mage HLA (or ) kit reference to D5_CONTI.spl which is part of the Wizard Tweaks component from Scales of Balance but is not installed by M&G...

Edited by agb1, 30 November 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[The Imp]

2. Have melee creatures prioritize guarding casters (go whack on anyone who is attacking them)
3. Cast protective spells on fellow casters while they cast offensive spells

2. That might be nice and all, but the melee dudes can go invisible too and "we can't see a thing". Then later the player adopts hit and run tactics in with a 1 melee char that has +100% fire damage protection and bombards the hell out of the area with fire based attacks... healing the melee char while killing the enemy.
3. Yeah, but there isn't that many protection spells to use, that the mage isn't capable to use themselves via contingencies etc.

The error is due to the same reason as the above, the CLABMA01.2DA file contains a spell reference that doesn't exist during the install time. The sell being D5_CONTI.spl, it's likely to come from one of subtledoctors mods.
I could be totally off, but it could be installed after the SCS.
So a deeper issue.

It may be a problem in might & guile component 200 which was recently updated.

Very likely this.

Edited by The Imp, 30 November 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[Munchkin Mooch]

I still don't know where I can find the output of that weidu change-log. I run it in the SoA folder, but the console window closes after doing it's things... Or I'm doing it wrong.

 

And yes, Might & Guile is one of the very few changes I did between these two installs.