23 replies to this topic

[Bill Bisco]

Did CHARNAME and Imoen Step Outside of Candlekeep as Children?  Is there any evidence to say that they spent their entire childhood within Candlekeep's walls and were never let outside?

[The Imp]

In the non-canon novel, Abdel Adrian(aka the Bhaalspawn) goes out as a mercenary and then returns to Candlekeep before he goes out with Gorion... So he at least could have gone.

[Bill Bisco]

Thank you for that, non-canon withstanding.

[Roxanne]

There are numerous hints in banters that indicate that they have been outside of Candlekeep, however not to one of the big cities. Some examples. Imoen might have left with Winthrop to buy supplies for the inn and shop - when the party first comes to Nashkel she recommends the Feldepost inn. The dreams in the Imoen romance show PC and Imoen outside several times. The Haiass mod assumes that PC and his wolf were at least in the wilderness areas around Candlekeep, etc...

Like the imp indicates, these banters are all from some mod or other but are consistent in the way that Candlekeep was not a prison for the PC even if he/she has not seen too much of the Swordcoast before.

[Bill Bisco]

Thanks Roxann. What's the justification that the PC couldn't return to Candlekeep immediately after Gorion's death. If s/he was allowed in before, shouldn't s/he be similarly allowed in again? I find it hard ro believe that longterm citizens would feel so trapped or that Candlekeep would be so heartless.

[Roxanne]

Thanks Roxann. What's the justification that the PC couldn't return to Candlekeep immediately after Gorion's death. If s/he was allowed in before, shouldn't s/he be similarly allowed in again? I find it hard ro believe that longterm citizens would feel so trapped or that Candlekeep would be so heartless.

There is no clear justification given for that, only a hint in one of those dreams PC has in BG1. For me it looks like not only Gorion but also some of the other elders at Candlekeep knew about the heritage of those children. With Gorion's protection gone and the knowledge of the monks of Alaundo's prophesy, they obviously want the Bhaalspawns gone and not get involved and their community be endangered by what they know will come sooner or later.

[Bill Bisco]

Strange then that they allow you back in knowing who you are later in Chapter 6. 

 

This gives me a mod idea wherein the Protagonist returns to Candlekeep with Gorion's body and decides to stay in Candlekeep rather than adventure out into the world (too dangerous).  Eventually Duke Sarevok will demand that your character be given up and Candlekeep will give in, causing CHARNAME to die a low level nobody as hordes of flaming fist decend upon him/her.

[Roxanne]

Strange then that they allow you back in knowing who you are later in Chapter 6. 

 

This gives me a mod idea wherein the Protagonist returns to Candlekeep with Gorion's body and decides to stay in Candlekeep rather than adventure out into the world (too dangerous).  Eventually Duke Sarevok will demand that your character be given up and Candlekeep will give in, causing CHARNAME to die a low level nobody as hordes of flaming fist decend upon him/her.

The original story is not perfect, so much is true, and probably nobody ever dug too deep into such questions.

Still, by chapter 6 you have proven now to be some hero to be counted. When you return to your former home a number of the monks are afraid of those Iron Throne visitors and *Koveras* in the inner sanctum. And you have the entry fee that is demanded of any foreigner. In this situation some of the monks would probably rather ask for your help than deny your entry.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Just from the limited interactions Charname has, he seems to be on very friendly terms with a lot of the residents, but the main guy in charge, Ulraunt, is a stickler for rules above all else.  The only thing that makes sense to me is that Gorion said "I'm leaving and taking the 'spawn with me," to which Ulraunt said "good riddance".  Gorion was a Harper, and those guys are typically seen as meddlers by people like Ulraunt.  IMO, Gorion was probably lucky to have gotten a residency there in the first place.

[Bill Bisco]

There is a flashback in the dream sequences showing Ulraunt reluctantly allowing Gorion and CHARNAME to stay but adding "that child will be the death of you".


Still, Tethtoril had clout and I could easily see him offering protection to CHARNAME. What about the other citizens of Candlekeep? Winthrop, Parda, and all the others. Who the heck is raising Imoen? What about her foster parents? I could see anyone with the slightest bit of sympathy for Gorion or CHARNAME offering to extend their protection for him (especially after Gorion's sudden death).

A short scene allowing CHARNAME to petition Tethtoril to come to the gates and let him in and perhaps Ulraunt either sticking to his obstinancy despite CHARNAME's predicament or allowing Tethtoril to sponsor CHARNAME as did Gorion. There's a great opportunity for a mod here.

Edited by Bill Bisco, 08 June 2015 - 05:03 PM.

[The Imp]

...let him in and perhaps Ulraunt either sticking to his obstinancy despite CHARNAME's predicament or allowing Tethtoril to sponsor CHARNAME as did Gorion. There's a great opportunity for a mod here.

Well yes, and after a diner and a meal, they escort you to a bed and it turns into a trap , that allows the old Candlekeep residents to come and bite your <insert race> ass as newly made doppleganger.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Charname: "I forgot my toothbrush."

Gate Guard: "Okay.  Come on in."

 

2015 Mod of the Year

[The Imp]

Charname: "I forgot my toothbrush."

Gate Guard: "Okay.  Come on in."

Sorry, but you won't be getting that award. -No wonder the Candlekeep is filled with dopplegangers.

[Kulyok]

Domi wrote a mini-mod inside Coran's Friendship(or Romance?) like that.

 

Coran: "Let's run away!"

PC: "Yay, let's do it!"

(screen, endgame)

 

Best ending ever.

 

In my headcanon, neither Imoen nor PC ever left Candlekeep. I recall the game isn't saying anything certain, and mods' authors interpret it however they like.

[Shaitan]

Hilarious Kulyok

 

Ulraunt clearly doesn't like the Bhaalspawn, that could be reason enough for not letting the PC return to Candlekeep. Can't really imagine neither the PC nor Imoen leaving the sanctuary of Candlekeep before Gorion tells the PC to.

[Bill Bisco]

Charname: "I forgot my toothbrush."

Gate Guard: "Okay.  Come on in."

 

2015 Mod of the Year

 

Jokes aside.  The mod would be more than that.  If someone could code it, I could write it. 

[Mirandel]

Still, Tethtoril had clout and I could easily see him offering protection to CHARNAME. What about the other citizens of Candlekeep? Winthrop, Parda, and all the others. Who the heck is raising Imoen? What about her foster parents? I could see anyone with the slightest bit of sympathy for Gorion or CHARNAME offering to extend their protection for him (especially after Gorion's sudden death).

 

Good point. And I have to disagree with Roxanne about indication of CHARNAME ever leaving Candlekeep. There are as many banters suggesting that it's the forst time you are out. My game is heavy modded and it's hard to tell wich banter is vanilla one, but even if that phrase from Imoen is original one, she - as a ..ghm... very curious person could learn anything about outside world from visitors. 

 

I filled that gap in the story by fear of assassines CHARNAME met in Candlekeep before run (another question is - why on earth CHARNAME did not call all the guards to investigate attacks). To make story sound somehow reasonable, I try to look at it like that: lot's of assassins scared CHARNAME and proved Candlekeep is not safe in any way. At the end, someone let those assassins in, may be one of your own teacher is after you and you have no way to know who. Yet, there are two Gorion's friends are waiting very near (in FAI) and not only they can protect you but can also explain what is going on. Therefor CHARNAME desides to go forward, choosing lesser evil. 

[Almateria]

In the non-canon novel

 

non-canon

you wish

[The Imp]

non-canon

you wish

Do you actually know what that actually means ?
It means in the story of the game, where you are placed as the Gorion's ward, not the canonical true line of the Toril, which is the A to B, according to C. Yes, the A, B and C are variables which don't matter at all in this case.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

I filled that gap in the story by fear of assassines CHARNAME met in Candlekeep before run (another question is - why on earth CHARNAME did not call all the guards to investigate attacks). To make story sound somehow reasonable, I try to look at it like that: lot's of assassins scared CHARNAME and proved Candlekeep is not safe in any way. At the end, someone let those assassins in, may be one of your own teacher is after you and you have no way to know who. Yet, there are two Gorion's friends are waiting very near (in FAI) and not only they can protect you but can also explain what is going on. Therefor CHARNAME desides to go forward, choosing lesser evil. 

I think the "assassins" Carbos and Shank were probably just normal laborers or part of a servant retinue for one of the visitors, bribed or threatened into going after Charname by someone.  Considering Sarevok was basically waiting for Charname/Gorion, maybe they were meant to just flush Charname out so Sarevok could do the killing himself.  That would explain their incompetence. Then again, it also doesn't make sense Sarevok wouldn't be able to find and kill Charname immediately after dispatching Gorion.