1192 replies to this topic

[The Imp]

Your arguments are correct, just your example is not - the Imoen related stuff you talk about IS one of those possible sidetracks you talk about, you can CHOOSE or leave aside. I have tried to avoid any of those NEJ traps where you are forced to do something - or game over, The requirements to play her through the game from my point of view are quite reasonable (have her in the party upon the transitions between the various parts, help her solve her quests like she helps you with yours). There are very few timed events by her (and those that are only present you the new quest - you know about it but you can put it to your afenda just as you want). And sure, you can take her into regions of the game I have not considered without problems - only if you want to see the end of her plot you need to follow the main plot roughly through the game (which I think is the BGT concept as such).
And yes, you are free to tweak any NPC into whatever you want - you will just loose (optional) contents from my mod that was related to that NPC. So I see no real problem in all of that.

And what if I want to have the dialogs and see what comes out of it without the enforce rule you BOUND her under ? I could just remove the requirement for her to need to be a mage from the script you bind her under, but I do not want to do it as you could do it for me.
It's not an actual optional road if you remove it if I do not fill the requirements for it at the right time. Say take yet another 15th a party member in the party... just think about it. Is there a real need for Imoen to be a mage at all ?... for the conversations to finnish. She too stypid without the class ? ...or not able to understand, while she fills the pre-requirements for it clearly.

[Roxanne]

Your arguments are correct, just your example is not - the Imoen related stuff you talk about IS one of those possible sidetracks you talk about, you can CHOOSE or leave aside. I have tried to avoid any of those NEJ traps where you are forced to do something - or game over, The requirements to play her through the game from my point of view are quite reasonable (have her in the party upon the transitions between the various parts, help her solve her quests like she helps you with yours). There are very few timed events by her (and those that are only present you the new quest - you know about it but you can put it to your afenda just as you want). And sure, you can take her into regions of the game I have not considered without problems - only if you want to see the end of her plot you need to follow the main plot roughly through the game (which I think is the BGT concept as such).
And yes, you are free to tweak any NPC into whatever you want - you will just loose (optional) contents from my mod that was related to that NPC. So I see no real problem in all of that.

And what if I want to have the dialogs and see what comes out of it without the enforce rule you BOUND her under ? I could just remove the requirement for her to need to be a mage from the script you bind her under, but I do not want to do it as you could do it for me.
It's not an actual optional road if you remove it if I do not fill the requirements for it at the right time. Say take yet another 15th a party member in the party... just think about it. Is there a real need for Imoen to be a mage at all ?... for the conversations to finnish. She too stypid without the class ? ...or not able to understand, while she fills the pre-requirements for it clearly.

Why pick around on that Imoen issue all the time? The Sandrah mod is full of conditional events, talks, quests etc.

There is also stuff for Ajantis/Keldorn, the paladins but not for Ajantis the sorcerer. There are long and interesting quests for Haer'Dalis and Viconia that require to have them AND Sandrah in the party. The idea is that you get this stuff in a certain constellation and get a different story next time around you decide to play with Sandrah. It is exactly opposite to what you are afraid of, you are not forced or bound to do a special thing just to please her - just any decision you make has a different consequence. Next time you make a different decision and you get another story.

I really thought this was one of the advantages of the mod - it is not a fixed story with a clear walk-through, but something new each time around - and the player can compose his/her experience and adventure out of a number of offers (there is no way to play all of the mod and its variations in one game, and this is part of the idea as well)

Same way, I have enhanced her to react to a male OR female PC, a GOOD or EVIL PC, etc,etc in this context Imoen the mage is just another variation compared to Imoen the heavy -metal punk bard and you can have both along with Sandrah just as you want.

The reason for Imoen the mage being different from Imoen the something-other is not in Imoen but in Sandrah, because as a priestess of the goddess of all magic  she establishes a different relationship to an Imoen who tries to advance in the arts of her goddess than to any other Imoen.

Edited by Roxanne, 19 November 2015 - 02:35 AM.

[The Imp]

Why pick around on that Imoen issue all the time? The Sandrah mod is full of conditional events, talks, quests etc.

Cause it feels to be the wrongest .. and totally contrary to the begining state that the BG1 game established her as.

The reason for Imoen the mage being different from Imoen the something-other is not in Imoen but in Sandrah, because as a priestess of the goddess of all magic she establishes a different relationship to an Imoen who tries to advance in the arts of her goddess than to any other Imoen.

That sound cool, until you realize that this is a computer game and as such it has to have rules like characters need to have a ingame rule dictated class, dictated by nothing else than the rules of the game that are tied in the engine and not to the game art, ideals or even the in worlds lore.
Also remember, the game has a dual class system(important as Imoen was a dual classed character), that allows the HUMAN character to op into another class during game play. Were Imoen an Elf, she wouldn't have this option ... well unless ToBEx were used. Anyways, Imoen being a class a b or c ... Does it actually say what she knows, believes or feels? K, what if she was a he. The game has a gender bending belt that makes her a male. It's not usable in BGT to Imoen because the mod has to have a belt on her that keeps her from dying for the engines/plots sake, not because we shouldn't make her a he. Were she a male, I don't think he would not do something she wouldn't do. It's the same freaking character, just an engine tied factor differently set. Well, unless you want to make a conversation out of the fact, but that's different. Cause you can use the opportunity, not because it's actually something rule breaking.
You are not restricted to abide by the games in engine rule set, and doing so to prevent additional content is a BAD excuse. It's like saying that a child will never be able to read book if he can't do that by the age of 2.

[agb1]

I will somewhat echo Imp here.  I see this in the SandrahNPC change log file:

 

Spoiler

Imoen can be selected as thief, mage, or mage/thief prior leaving Candlekeep. Both mage options will provide extensive new content with Sandrah (who serves the goddess of all magic) and three new epic quests for the Sandrah/Imoen team during BG1. Thief only will leave Imoen untouched (per default she will be thief) and have only some minimal Sandrah/Imoen interaction (Sandrah stays cold to thieves due to her family relation with Cyric).

 

I like the idea of experiencing the extra Sandrah/Imoen crossmod content while also using a custom kit for Imoen (e.g., Spellfilcher from subtledoctor's mod, a mostly-thief-with-some-innate-mage-spells kit).  So, feature request: make the conditions for the extra Sandrah/Imoen crossmod depend on a variable that can be changed by the player through dialogue with Sandrah, independent of Imoen's actual kit.  Edit: my idea is that players would only set that variable if Imoen is using a magical kit of some kind, but you would rely on the player to tell you that so you and other kit mod authors do not have to specifically implement compatibility.

 

Edit2: also, as I recall in BG1 ..

Spoiler

Imoen begins learning magic by playing with the spellbook from the wizard assassin at the Friendly Arm Inn (and eventually she makes the 'Imoen artifact' from it)

.. so it would also be nice if the decision to dual-class Imoen to mage could be delayed until then.

Edited by agb1, 19 November 2015 - 06:27 PM.

[Roxanne]

I will somewhat echo Imp here.  I see this in the SandrahNPC change log file:

 

Spoiler

Imoen can be selected as thief, mage, or mage/thief prior leaving Candlekeep. Both mage options will provide extensive new content with Sandrah (who serves the goddess of all magic) and three new epic quests for the Sandrah/Imoen team during BG1. Thief only will leave Imoen untouched (per default she will be thief) and have only some minimal Sandrah/Imoen interaction (Sandrah stays cold to thieves due to her family relation with Cyric).

This is more or less what is done now -the thief vatiation is actually a placeholder (it says thief  in the dialogue but it really does nothing but setting a global and leaving Imoen unchanged,) Working with a global now to activate the mage addon is expandle - anything that is a magic-using Imoen can trigger it-

 

I like the idea of experiencing the extra Sandrah/Imoen crossmod content while also using a custom kit for Imoen (e.g., Spellfilcher from subtledoctor's mod, a mostly-thief-with-some-innate-mage-spells kit).  So, feature request: make the conditions for the extra Sandrah/Imoen crossmod depend on a variable that can be changed by the player through dialogue with Sandrah, independent of Imoen's actual kit.  Edit: my idea is that players would only set that variable if Imoen is using a magical kit of some kind, but you would rely on the player to tell you that so you and other kit mod authors do not have to specifically implement compatibility.

 

Edit2: also, as I recall in BG1 ..

Spoiler

Imoen begins learning magic by playing with the spellbook from the wizard assassin at the Friendly Arm Inn (and eventually she makes the 'Imoen artifact' from it)

.. so it would also be nice if the decision to dual-class Imoen to mage could be delayed until then.

The last is simply the player's decision and outside of the mod's range (if duak ckass is applied at all) And by the time she is able to dual-class, the issue has become irrelevant anyway,

Edited by Roxanne, 19 November 2015 - 10:28 PM.

[The Imp]

And by the time sje is able to dual-class, the issue has become irrelevant anyway,

I wouldn't count out the Evil party. See the FAI is only really useful stopping point to get the cure for the spider poison for the spider quest that's solved back in FAI after you go to Beregost, and the 2 there there companions, the general target is to get Ajantis usually at level 2. Skip those, you can make your way to Beregost, get the best dwarf fighter that's also evil, go then south to get the best cleric that's evil(from a mod that moves Viconia), and go a few more times south and you get the best mage... who shouldn't be able to cast fireballs, but does(you couldn't in BG1). By the time you have done the thieving and quests on and south of Beregost, you have enough loot and +1 weapons, party members and bad reputation that the rest is not an obstacle, be what ever party configuration you choose.
And considering the SCS makes the fight in the FAI quite much harder, there's actual validity to choose to go south instead of north on the coast way. Besides, only Gorion wants you to go to FAI, you could say F-to-him, you already know about the iron sortage from the two not so good and crazy evil companions I tend to loot, drop and kill to get rid off.
But I usually want to have my Ajantis.

That's just with a few base mods, in a megamod, the NPC party configuration options are nearly endless. You don't have to go to FAI.

[Roxanne]

And by the time sje is able to dual-class, the issue has become irrelevant anyway,

I wouldn't count out the Evil party. See the FAI is only really useful stopping point to get the cure for the spider poison for the spider quest that's solved back in FAI after you go to Beregost, and the 2 there there companions, the general target is to get Ajantis usually at level 2. Skip those, you can make your way to Beregost, get the best dwarf fighter that's also evil, go then south to get the best cleric that's evil(from a mod that moves Viconia), and go a few more times south and you get the best mage... who shouldn't be able to cast fireballs, but does(you couldn't in BG1). By the time you have done the thieving and quests on and south of Beregost, you have enough loot and +1 weapons, party members and bad reputation that the rest is not an obstacle, be what ever party configuration you choose.
And considering the SCS makes the fight in the FAI quite much harder, there's actual validity to choose to go south instead of north on the coast way. Besides, only Gorion wants you to go to FAI, you could say F-to-him, you already know about the iron sortage from the two not so good and crazy evil companions I tend to loot, drop and kill to get rid off.
But I usually want to have my Ajantis.

That's just with a few base mods, in a megamod, the NPC party configuration options are nearly endless. You don't have to go to FAI.

And this was exactly my point - if you follow that road, you would get a completely different party with completly different contents and reactions/development from Sandrah as well - and instead you get the Sandrah/Viconia contents (and yes, before you ask - it is the priestess of Mystra and the Weave meets the priestess of Shar and the Shadow Weave and if you made Viconia a thief instead....) and you get the Sandrah/Edwin episodes (and he is a male red wizard for her even if you disguise him as paladina of Helm with a girdle of gender) - but you would have missed the evil githyanki for your party whom you find at FAI but only before you go to the Nashkel mines.

There are an awful lot of roads through the game and through the mod. Miss one here - get another there. The only thing you do not get is what you seem to ask for *I want my cake and eat it, too*. The game is just like real life in that respect.

[The Imp]

- but you would have missed the evil githyanki for your party whom you find at FAI but only before you go to the Nashkel mines.
There are an awful lot of roads through the game...

Did I say the evil group went into the mines ?
There's awful lot of space to cover in the southern part of the Beregost that doesn't have anything much to do with the mines, like the basilisk plasa, Gnoll fortress, archeological site, valley of the tombs... places to go and quests to do that do not nessasarily raise your reputation. Being evil and all those nice things.

Now, the only thing I ask is that you allow the NPCs class made by the player to not to be involved with the dialog choises the player is precented. You write the NPC as if it were the NPC you made it to be... be the final a Berserker kitted Mage with an assassination fetish, or a polymorphed bear, and sometimes both on the Beast Night^TM, it's still the same Imoen(yes, we are back at this, as an example) that started from the same "home" as the player character. So what if you see her as a mage... then the thief Imoen should have the exact same things to say as the mage one does, as should Sandrah.
So the dialog check should be: IF Imoen and Sandrah are on the party(and not busy, aka !StateCheck("imoen",CD_STATE_NOTVALID) ), it happens... NOT: IF Imoen is a mage and Sandrah are on the party... get it ? That's the only thing I am after.

 

Also you should probably move the Setup-SandrahNPC.tp2 -file into the SandrahNPC -folder and remove the SandrahNPC-master -folder from the master archive. And the readme probably should be something else than a .doc file. We do not all have Windows Office. A .PDF file would do ... but a .txt would likely be better.

PS: There's a proper readme command:

BACKUP ~SandrahNPC/backup~
AUTHOR ~Roxanne - Contact Roxanne@shsforums.net~
VERSION ~v1.10.b~
README ~SandrahNPC/readme.txt~

And it doesn't usually take .doc files, cause (starting) that is Office exclusive. Also you can have it in different languages, and use the language folder as part of the path, if you wish to be nice to those people that actually read those things.

Edited by The Imp, 20 November 2015 - 02:44 AM.

[Roxanne]

- but you would have missed the evil githyanki for your party whom you find at FAI but only before you go to the Nashkel mines.
There are an awful lot of roads through the game...

Did I say the evil group went into the mines ?
There's awful lot of space to cover in the southern part of the Beregost that doesn't have anything much to do with the mines, like the basilisk plasa, Gnoll fortress, archeological site, valley of the tombs... places to go and quests to do that do not nessasarily raise your reputation. Being evil and all those nice things.

Now, the only thing I ask is that you allow the NPCs class made by the player to not to be involved with the dialog choises the player is precented. You write the NPC as if it were the NPC you made it to be... be the final a Berserker kitted Mage with an assassination fetish, or a polymorphed bear, and sometimes both on the Beast Night^TM, it's still the same Imoen(yes, we are back at this, as an example) that started from the same "home" as the player character. So what if you see her as a mage... then the thief Imoen should have the exact same things to say as the mage one does, as should Sandrah.
So the dialog check should be: IF Imoen and Sandrah are on the party(and not busy, aka !StateCheck("imoen",CD_STATE_NOTVALID) ), it happens... NOT: IF Imoen is a mage and Sandrah are on the party... get it ? That's the only thing I am after.

Not to mix up topics

The Imoen and Sandrah inparty and valid banters are around generic stuff like pink fashion from Waterdeep and boys and partys and some common experience with PC and other party members and they are in the mod just like for a truckload of other NPCs as well.

On top of that and as an optional addition there is some Sandrah *Priestess of Mystra to Imoen struggling with magic* extra that of course makes no sense for any other Imoen.

 

Also you should probably move the Setup-SandrahNPC.tp2 -file into the SandrahNPC -folder and remove the SandrahNPC-master -folder from the master archive.

This is a particularity done by github if you download from there (you will find it with other mods hosted there as well) and is not a problem when using BWS - on manually done installs you need to follow the instruction on the download page. Github packages the mod when you request the download, it is not pre-packed by the modder like the SHS zip or rar packages were.

And the readme probably should be something else than a .doc file. We do not all have Windows Office. A .PDF file would do ... but a .txt would likely be better.

PS: There's a proper readme command:

BACKUP ~SandrahNPC/backup~
AUTHOR ~Roxanne - Contact Roxanne@shsforums.net~
VERSION ~v1.10.b~
README ~SandrahNPC/readme.txt~

And it doesn't usually take .doc files, cause (starting) that is Office exclusive. Also you can have it in different languages, and use the language folder as part of the path, if you wish to be nice to those people that actually read those things.

The readme is an intermediate solution and will be removed sooner or later to be replaced with - nothing.

[Roxanne]

- but you would have missed the evil githyanki for your party whom you find at FAI but only before you go to the Nashkel mines.
There are an awful lot of roads through the game...

Did I say the evil group went into the mines ?
There's awful lot of space to cover in the southern part of the Beregost that doesn't have anything much to do with the mines, like the basilisk plasa, Gnoll fortress, archeological site, valley of the tombs... places to go and quests to do that do not nessasarily raise your reputation. Being evil and all those nice things.

And if you do...you just get another version of the game and the mod once again, no issue. At one point sooner or later you may want to advance further in the main plot - there is a lot of Sandrah contents that is independent of such progress - and there are some main plots that follow the main PC plot and those only advance if you advance there, but that is nothing unusual.

 

 

Now, the only thing I ask is that you allow the NPCs class made by the player to not to be involved with the dialog choises the player is precented. You write the NPC as if it were the NPC you made it to be... be the final a Berserker kitted Mage with an assassination fetish, or a polymorphed bear, and sometimes both on the Beast Night^TM, it's still the same Imoen(yes, we are back at this, as an example) that started from the same "home" as the player character. So what if you see her as a mage... then the thief Imoen should have the exact same things to say as the mage one does, as should Sandrah.
So the dialog check should be: IF Imoen and Sandrah are on the party(and not busy, aka !StateCheck("imoen",CD_STATE_NOTVALID) ), it happens... NOT: IF Imoen is a mage and Sandrah are on the party... get it ? That's the only thing I am after.

Not to mix up topics

The Imoen and Sandrah inparty and valid banters are around generic stuff like pink fashion from Waterdeep and boys and partys and some common experience with PC and other party members and they are in the mod just like for a truckload of other NPCs as well.

On top of that and as an optional addition there is some Sandrah *Priestess of Mystra to Imoen struggling with magic* extra that of course makes no sense for any other Imoen.

And then there is also the !InParty("Imoen2") path, where a nasty Bhaalspawn never took her along and now Sandrah must compensate by babbling twice as much to fill those endless gaps of silence.

And at last there is a having none of them in the party variation that solves any such problem.

 

Also you should probably move the Setup-SandrahNPC.tp2 -file into the SandrahNPC -folder and remove the SandrahNPC-master -folder from the master archive.

This is a particularity done by github if you download from there (you will find it with other mods hosted there as well) and is not a problem when using BWS - on manually done installs you need to follow the instruction on the download page. Github packages the mod when you request the download, it is not pre-packed by the modder like the SHS zip or rar packages were.

And the readme probably should be something else than a .doc file. We do not all have Windows Office. A .PDF file would do ... but a .txt would likely be better.

PS: There's a proper readme command:

BACKUP ~SandrahNPC/backup~
AUTHOR ~Roxanne - Contact Roxanne@shsforums.net~
VERSION ~v1.10.b~
README ~SandrahNPC/readme.txt~

And it doesn't usually take .doc files, cause (starting) that is Office exclusive. Also you can have it in different languages, and use the language folder as part of the path, if you wish to be nice to those people that actually read those things.

The readme is an intermediate solution and will be removed sooner or later to be replaced with - nothing. For current use I made it a pdf already.

 

 

Edited by Roxanne, 20 November 2015 - 03:24 AM.

[The Imp]

Not to mix up topics

I understand what you talk about, but I don't want just the spare parts of what's out on the wild, I want the quests too. Do the quest talks need to abosolutelly have everything checked to be absolutelly sure that it's there ? What if the SoA game had an Neutral end where if Irenicus were a fighter... none of the stuff in BG2 would actually have happen ? It would not be a game feature as it wouldn't ever activate. But it's still a possibility.
-We can't take this man to our custoty, he is just insane man, not magically insane. He doesn't have any of the talent we are looking for.
-Ahh, another one of those. Geesys man, when do we actually get to abduct people, this is getting depresing already, the fifth time this week. Let me at least take the girl.
-Nope, she is actually the main character in the belt of gender bend, that other... yep, the orc, that would be the girl that wears the pink swimware, unfortunatelly she too is just a druid this time.
-Darn it. Hay, she is an orc, to my memory, no druid could poymorph to an orc, let me look at that Weidu.log... ouh hell no, that just cheeting man:

~Impilation/setup-impilation.tp2~ #0 #101 // The pink orc polymorph suit to piss the cowled wizard guard off

 

NOn top of that and as an optional addition there is some Sandrah *Priestess of Mystra to Imoen struggling with magic* extra that of course makes no sense for any other Imoen.
And then there is also the !InParty("Imoen2") path, where a nasty Bhaalspawn never took her along and now Sandrah must compensate by babbling twice as much to fill those endless gaps of silence.
And at last there is a having none of them in the party variation that solves any such problem.

See the difference between Imoen not being a mage yet, and her being a first level mage is huge. DOES IT HAVE TO BE ? Can you explain, why ?
 
You can make an actual release version of the product, that doesn't have the master folder, as you can directly control what's in it. And you probably should, cause the above is the master... that you constantly update, and being in mid update, it can cause all sorts of throuble.

Edited by The Imp, 20 November 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[Roxanne]

Not to mix up topics

I understand what you talk about, but I don't want just the spare parts of what's out on the wild, I want the quests too. Do the quest talks need to abosolutelly have everything checked to be absolutelly sure that it's there ? What if the SoA game had an Neutral end where if Irenicus were a fighter... none of the stuff in BG2 would actually have happen ? It would not be a game feature as it wouldn't ever activate. But it's still a possibility.
-We can't take this man to our custoty, he is just insane man, not magically insane. He doesn't have any of the talent we are looking for.
-Ahh, another one of those. Geesys man, when do we actually get to abduct people, this is getting depresing already, the fifth time this week. Let me at least take the girl.
-Nope, she is actually the main character in the belt of gender bend, that other... yep, the orc, that would be the girl that wears the pink swimware, unfortunatelly she too is just a druid this time.
-Darn it. Hay, she is an orc, to my memory, no druid could poymorph to an orc, let me look at that Weidu.log... ouh hell no, that just cheeting man:

~Impilation/setup-impilation.tp2~ #0 #101 // The pink orc polymorph suit to piss the cowled wizard guard off

Initial contents for *The Imp's Sandrah mod tweak*

Component #01 Allow Haer'Dalis tiefling ressurection quest when he actually romances Aerie

Component #02 Provide access to Waterdeep areas without Sandrah guiding the way

Component #03 Make Imoen mage contents available for all Imoen classes

Component #04 Remove all class or race specific limitations from Sandrah mod

Component #05 Make Return to Faerun transition independent from PC Throne of Bhaal decision

Component #06 Remove all Priestess of Mystra specific contents from the mod

Component #07 Remove all IF InParty("CVSandr") limitations from all quest triggers

Component #08 Allow installation of the mod without that pesky NPC, just give me the gore

Component #09 No game decision has any consequence tweak

....

You can make an actual release version of the product, that doesn't have the master folder, as you can directly control what's in it. And you probably should, cause the above is the master... that you constantly update, and being in mid update, it can cause all sorts of throuble.

As to product and release and mod opdate policy - this has been discussed just a few days ago here http://www.shsforums...-40#entry582500

Edited by Roxanne, 20 November 2015 - 04:44 AM.

[The Imp]

Initial contents for *The Imp's Sandrah mod tweak*
Component #01 Allow Haer'Dalis tiefling ressurection quest when he actually romances Aerie
Component #02 Provide access to Waterdeep areas without Sandrah guiding the way
Component #03 Make Imoen mage contents available for all Imoen classes
Component #04 Remove all class or race specific limitations from Sandrah mod
Component #05 Make Return to Faerun transition independent from PC Throne of Bhaal decision
Component #06 Remove all Priestess of Mystra specific contents from the mod
Component #07 Remove all IF InParty("CVSandr") limitations from all quest triggers
Component #08 Allow installation of the mod without that pesky NPC, just give me the gore
Component #09 No game ...

1. Never played with HD, so I can't for sure say, but is there even a need for such as the quest should be with one of the party member NPCs, not several. Cause it would amputate the party for a lots, if for example there's 5 harem romanced partymembers taken. As Bodhi should take only one. Random if you have several romances.
2. Sounds good.
3. That would be nice.
4. Duh, nice.
5. Hmm, well if the decision* has ramifications that prevent paths later, then it should close them yes. So no thanks.
6. Well, it the charname says to Sandrah to put a sock in it, she should listen, and not leave the group. And it should adjust the scripts she has and so forth. This should also open a party talk option that can be used to restores the dialogs when the charname talks to Sandrah personally. Aka innitiates the talk with the talk to option.
7. Why not.
8. I don't get the exact reference. So I can't comment.
9. Only ingame* "decision have any consequence tweak". Thanks. That's all I have ever asked. Well, and options that allow more quest without carrying dead weight for years. Just like you did with the Drizzt quests. Remember those ?

Have you played the Mass Effect gameS ? The games have tons of consequences, and most of which are partly invisible or hard to notice until you play the base Mass Effect 3 with a save game and then without ever having the chance to make any of them for the first two games. The DLC's are yeat another bad example of this, as not paying for them removes options. This is a reference question, meant as a simulus to bonder stuff, not to derail from the topic. So read it as such.

 

* See the parallel between all these points, the decisions should be ingame, and restricted by actual choises in the game, not something like filling requirements that are not nessasarily made in the game (dialogs) for reasons like group composition. The party members actual class doesn't dictate how they see the world. A thief is not nessasary the rogue element of the party, a Priest is not the only one that believes in the god they have chosen, and the Barbarian is not the only brute in the party. It's just what they do in combat, not while they whittle chains out of wood as a pass time.

[Creepin]

Initial contents for *The Imp's Sandrah mod tweak*
Component #01 Allow Haer'Dalis tiefling ressurection quest when he actually romances Aerie
Component #02 Provide access to Waterdeep areas without Sandrah guiding the way
Component #03 Make Imoen mage contents available for all Imoen classes
Component #04 Remove all class or race specific limitations from Sandrah mod
Component #05 Make Return to Faerun transition independent from PC Throne of Bhaal decision
Component #06 Remove all Priestess of Mystra specific contents from the mod
Component #07 Remove all IF InParty("CVSandr") limitations from all quest triggers
Component #08 Allow installation of the mod without that pesky NPC, just give me the gore
Component #09 No game decision has any consequence tweak

I hope this is/will be optional, right? Because I really loved your concept of different content for different circumstances, and would especially hate to see #03, #04, #06 and #09 as mandatory

Loved #02, #05 and #07 though

[The Imp]

I hope this is/will be optional, right?

The weidu.exe is programmed so that you can pick different components, so none of those would be non optional, unless you remove the component designation, as that just combines the different components together. Aka you then just remove the option to enable one without the other. I have always been pro more mod choises.
I too hope that #02, #03 and #07 would materialize ... but it's upto Roxanne for now. See until I can go through the mods stable .tp2 file and hack it for myself ... but no public release until Roxanne permits it. Nope, that's not the real reason, but I am just that bad coder.

Edited by The Imp, 20 November 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Roxanne]

I hope this is/will be optional, right?

The weidu.exe is programmed so that you can pick different components, so none of those would be non optional, unless you remove the component designation, as that just combines the different components together. Aka you then just remove the option to enable one without the other. I have always been pro more mod choises.
I too hope that #02, #03 and #07 would materialize ... but it's upto Roxanne for now. See until I can go through the mods stable .tp2 file and hack it for myself ... but no public release until Roxanne permits it. Nope, that's not the real reason, but I am just that bad coder.

You know what you are proposing - yes, sure you know.

The Sandrah mod without its heroine - a loose coupling of quest to play along your game at your convenience.

All the quests in this mod however are working on several layers. Layer one is the thread itself and you solve it and get your reward, same as ever. Layer two is the piece of extra insight, information, background the episode adds to the overall stoty of the mod. Layer three is the way you solve it and your relationship to Sandrah manifesting by these decisions. Some of the quests even have some additional function as well but those three are enough for this discussion.

What you propose is to have a version of the mod that just has level one.

Not something I am interested in. Not something that would enable the RtF sequel. RtF itself would be nothing more than an option to revisit all maps from the original game plus some, walk around the maps and look for plots you missed in the original playthrough. There would be no storyline because there was no Sandrah storyline in the BGT part.

I do not think it is worth to download some 800MB of a megamod and install it for the 20% of thin plot you could play in such way, rather look for some adventuring mod, dungeon crawl or quest collection that suits your desire.

Edited by Roxanne, 20 November 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Lollorian]

I'm doing a grep for errant "Myself" identifiers in my mods and noticed this

 

I do remember someone pointin out years ago that "Myself" and Myself were interchangeable but if micbaldur reported it, it might be a legitimate problem. What's your take on it? Should I go forward and fixpack those extra "quotes"?

 

EDIT: I mean fix it for the other mods - you'll of course do it for Sandrah

Edited by Lollorian, 20 November 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[agb1]

I am with Roxanne on keeping the requirement for Sandrah to be in party to experience the quests that develop her storyline and the RtF sequel.

 

It's the same concept as the BG1NPC mod -- you need the NPCs in your party to experience the bonus quests for each NPC.  Those quests are designed to be experienced with the NPC and expand on their character.  If you don't want the NPC, there are plenty of other quests available.

[Roxanne]

I'm doing a grep for errant "Myself" identifiers in my mods and noticed this

 

I do remember someone pointin out years ago that "Myself" and Myself were interchangeable but if micbaldur reported it, it might be a legitimate problem. What's your take on it? Should I go forward and fixpack those extra "quotes"?

 

EDIT: I mean fix it for the other mods - you'll of course do it for Sandrah

I have seen both posts as well (I cannot remember where I saw the interchangeable issue but I saw it, or maybe it was Player1 vs "Player1"?)). Anyway my convention in all other 1000+ cases in my mod is without the quotes and I will update this one as well, just in case

[The Imp]

The Sandrah mod without its heroine - a loose coupling of quest to play along your game at your convenience.

Hmm, what you imply is not exactly what I am looking in this... I am looking for the possibility of taking Sandrah with me to most of the quests, do most of the tasks and so forth. But I am not looking for her to have to be permanent party member from day one to day 1000, whichout any other pauses except the natural one in BG1->BG2 transition ... that's impossible for me to coup with. Your quest structure should be more closer to that of the stronghold ones, or other similar things. So they each have a start, end and the NPC is changed by them even if they are not present according to the choise that were made. Also if you wish, you can add additional things if the NPC is in the party*. And additional content if they were not, say like.. "ouh the last time we seperated, you went and killed this, that and those persons, how do you thing this will reflect on me ?" Aka the missed quest comes and bites back, so to speak. And of course if the Bhallspawn makes a huge misstep even unknowingly, Sandrah can go and never return. Or just go hostile after "Hell yeah, we burned the whole temple to the ground" "-Savages. Aargh..."

*Yes, this requires the NPC to have a place to send her between the adventures and that should be some semi-pernanent places like FAI in BG1, near the slums in SoA and the pocket plane in ToB.