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[Removed] Sandrah NPC


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#761 agb1

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 02:32 AM

Thanks for the tra,  Install proceeded but some warnings popped up in earlier components and an error in mod interactions component related to Aurora TOB.

 

Edit: Removed attachment.


Edited by agb1, 13 November 2015 - 04:35 AM.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

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#762 Roxanne

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 03:41 AM

Thanks for the tra,  Install proceeded but some warnings popped up in earlier components and an error in mod interactions component related to Aurora TOB.

Some of the these warnings are erroneous (too few arguments in cvrtf1) because the stuff always installs correctly. The KivanP warning is due to the new SCS-in-one-block installation and not significant (you cannot send Kivan to an additional inn from Sandrah mod if you kick him out, that is all you miss)

 

The Aurora stuff was at the wrong place in tp2 (before the SandrahToB was created) - I corrected that

 

(I tested the new content with a mini tp2 just adding the additions but not in the whole context of a full installation, so the error went undetected.)


Edited by Roxanne, 13 November 2015 - 03:48 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#763 Roxanne

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 03:50 AM

Thanks for the tra,  Install proceeded but some warnings popped up in earlier components and an error in mod interactions component related to Aurora TOB.

Some of the these warnings are erroneous (too few arguments in cvrtf1) because the stuff always installs correctly. The KivanP warning is due to the new SCS-in-one-block installation and not significant (you cannot send Kivan to an additional inn from Sandrah mod if you kick him out, that is all you miss)

 

The Aurora stuff was at the wrong place in tp2 (before the SandrahToB was created) - I corrected that

attachicon.gifSetup-SandrahNPC.tp2

 

(I tested the new content with a mini tp2 just adding the additions but not in the whole context of a full installation, so the error went undetected.)

PS Sorry for the inconvenience, you seem to be just an hour ahead of my own mega install to find these problems.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#764 agb1

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 04:36 AM

Install for Sandrah and RTF finished successfully now.  Thanks!


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#765 Roxanne

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 04:52 AM

Install for Sandrah and RTF finished successfully now.  Thanks!

It is me who has to say thanks - that last update really was friday 13th meets Murphy's law. Not my usual quality standard.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#766 -Guest-

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 09:14 PM

Hello, its me again, the german translator.

First of all I managed to install Sandrah and my first impression is great!

I would like to begin translating for the other players,

so could you please traify the d-files.

Then i can begin to translate it in german.

Thanks



#767 Roxanne

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 01:09 AM

Hello, its me again, the german translator.

First of all I managed to install Sandrah and my first impression is great!

I would like to begin translating for the other players,

so could you please traify the d-files.

Then i can begin to translate it in german.

Thanks

Thank you for the interest.

Before you or anyone else (there were similar requests for other languages as well) make a decision, here are a few facts about the mod.

 

Amount of work

Sandrah according to my latest (4 days ago) install log adds 25500 strings to dialog.tlk, i.e that is 25000 tra entries to translate - and we are not talking about one-liners here.

 

Status of the Project

Public beta testing of the mod started in April this year - a good point to draw conclusions from the test phase could be end of this year.

Anyway, the feedback and experience with the mod so far is consistently negative, so the current trend shows that from the point of testing the mod will FAIL. This is not so much due to individual components, items or quests but due to the concept as a whole. The installation is too demanding, playing the mod requires to accept some conditions that most players do not like to be forced onto them, maintenance of the mod's dependencies is more demanding than interest in the mod justifies etc, etc.

 

Possible Outlook

The following options are considered for end of the year decision:

 

1. The mod will be published

The files will be traified and become available for translation. A translation forum will be established and finished translations will be incorporated in the mod. Updates will be co-ordinated and provided on approximately 6-month intervals. 

Probability of this option 20%

 

2. The mod will be withdrawn as the concept is proven not to be feasible.     

Probability of this option 50%

 

3. The mod will stay permanent beta for BWS/BWP expert use

Sandrah is now hosted on Github (after SHS download system deceased) which allows a permanent update with all new/revised components in a database - any user downloading the mod always automatically receives the latest tested update of the mod. Translation of such everchanging files will be a problem, most likely there can only be the english version maintained in the mod files temselves.

Probability of this option 30%

 

From the point of view of translating the mod, only option1 would justify the enourmous amount of work required. And this option is the least probable concerning the Sandrah mod's future.


Edited by Roxanne, 16 November 2015 - 01:11 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#768 agb1

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 02:12 AM

While I have yet to play Sandrah and RTF, I like the concept so I am hopeful for option 1 or 3.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#769 Roxanne

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 03:11 AM

While I have yet to play Sandrah and RTF, I like the concept so I am hopeful for option 1 or 3.

Not to be misunderstood - we are not talking about the mod to vanish/be destroyed or even left for dead.

I am talking about how to understand the status - the testphase has to end at some point and people finding the mod e.g. in BWP must know what to expect of it etc.

If I say withdraw, I mean not to have it mentioned in BWP/BWS or any forum anymore, just let experts use it for their fun and knowing the risk of it being permanent beta. What the Big World does not need is another controverse mega mod that is more disturbing than anything.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#770 agb1

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 05:32 AM

I understand. I am curious what exactly about the mod has been causing negative reactions. I hope to play through with Sandrah soon and see for myself.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#771 miker17

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 12:25 PM

I hope you will continue to work on Sandrah in future. I like it very much ...aside of few lore things and Hening :3



#772 Roxanne

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 12:49 PM

I hope you will continue to work on Sandrah in future. I like it very much ...aside of few lore things and Hening :3

...aside of few lore things and Hening

If you mean

Sandrah's lore is too high >>>fixed, she uses now her book to identify things by looking them up

Henning getting hostile >>> fixed, was some other mod that assigned a false script to him

 

And yes, work is continued > I was referring towards how to deal with the beta status and test phase of the mod and the consequences out of that, e.g. having BWP/BWS making this point clearer so players would not install the mod by incident or oversight and be frustrated by its state and what it offers.


Edited by Roxanne, 16 November 2015 - 12:54 PM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#773 miker17

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 01:32 PM

I hope you will continue to work on Sandrah in future. I like it very much ...aside of few lore things and Hening :3

...aside of few lore things and Hening

If you mean

Sandrah's lore is too high >>>fixed, she uses now her book to identify things by looking them up

Henning getting hostile >>> fixed, was some other mod that assigned a false script to him

 

And yes, work is continued > I was referring towards how to deal with the beta status and test phase of the mod and the consequences out of that, e.g. having BWP/BWS making this point clearer so players would not install the mod by incident or oversight and be frustrated by its state and what it offers.

Nope i mean FR lore and Henning getting his paws on my Imoen XD



#774 Roxanne

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 01:59 PM

I hope you will continue to work on Sandrah in future. I like it very much ...aside of few lore things and Hening :3

...aside of few lore things and Hening

If you mean

Sandrah's lore is too high >>>fixed, she uses now her book to identify things by looking them up

Henning getting hostile >>> fixed, was some other mod that assigned a false script to him

 

And yes, work is continued > I was referring towards how to deal with the beta status and test phase of the mod and the consequences out of that, e.g. having BWP/BWS making this point clearer so players would not install the mod by incident or oversight and be frustrated by its state and what it offers.

Nope i mean FR lore and Henning getting his paws on my Imoen XD

Spoiler

And FR lore - well this is written new every time a player starts his/her adventure in a BG game. What is inside the game is consistent, you just cannot compare it to outside sources. The game always creates its own version of the story.

Spoiler


Edited by Roxanne, 16 November 2015 - 02:00 PM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#775 waebbl

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:25 AM

I have a glitch with Valen and her vampires at the old city beneath Baldur's Gate. I have Sandrah equip the Maze from Otho (dsmaze03.itm) which gives her negative plane protection. Additionally she cast a protection from undead (scroll) and an additional negative plane protection (spell) on herself. But she still gets attribute points reduced (con and dex) partly from the spell to draw life energy (spwi928.spl, SUCCUBUS_ENERGY_DRAIN) partly from Valens weapon (f_vamp1.itm, GHOUL_TOUCH). The decreases from the spell wears off by (Lesser) Restoration (either scroll, Sandrahs innate or at a temple) or sleeping, but the decreases from the item doesn't wear off by any of those measures. I even tried to go to a temple and buying the lesser restoration spell several times and slept each time between, her constitution stays reduced. I also tried Heal and Mass Heal additionally with no success. Is this intended or am I stumbled above some bug?



#776 -Guest-

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:25 AM

I agree with this:

"What the Big World does not need is another controverse mega mod that is more disturbing than anything."

But...

I am playing sandrah at the moment and I have done the cloakwood mines and I am in BG.

My first impression is very good.

One bug is detected: If you free Branwen, Sandrah says that she will depart because main char does not love her so much.

This is when Branwen is in group.

Maybe the point is, that the concept of Sandrah shoul be changed. Her story and the ideas behind her are awesome and the interaction with other npcs is good as well.

Maybe the many mods included will make it difficult to include her.

But i am sure we will find a solution.

By the way... The portraits should be a different one....



#777 Roxanne

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:58 AM

I have a glitch with Valen and her vampires at the old city beneath Baldur's Gate. I have Sandrah equip the Maze from Otho (dsmaze03.itm) which gives her negative plane protection. Additionally she cast a protection from undead (scroll) and an additional negative plane protection (spell) on herself. But she still gets attribute points reduced (con and dex) partly from the spell to draw life energy (spwi928.spl, SUCCUBUS_ENERGY_DRAIN) partly from Valens weapon (f_vamp1.itm, GHOUL_TOUCH). The decreases from the spell wears off by (Lesser) Restoration (either scroll, Sandrahs innate or at a temple) or sleeping, but the decreases from the item doesn't wear off by any of those measures. I even tried to go to a temple and buying the lesser restoration spell several times and slept each time between, her constitution stays reduced. I also tried Heal and Mass Heal additionally with no success. Is this intended or am I stumbled above some bug?

This is surely not intended by Sandrah, however according to your description the issue is probably with other mods. We would need the weidu.log for this, but if you have a lot of item/spell/strategy mods or SCS or other tweaks installed it may result from some constellation here.

Sandrah definitely does not touch or tweak any of the items or spells you have mentioned >>> Sandrah does not CHANGE any of the items or spells or abilities in the game, she only adds new ones and only for her own use - none of them are involved here.


Edited by Roxanne, 18 November 2015 - 07:06 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#778 waebbl

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for your list on mod interactions. I think, this will be quite useful.

 

Some feedback on your view of the status of the project.

 

the feedback and experience with the mod so far is consistently negative

You seem to have a rather pessimistic view of its current state. According to this whole thread, you have received not only negative feedback, but also a lot of positive, motivational one. I, personally, would not speak of a consistent negative feedback and experience, but your mileage may vary, of course.

 

Although your beta test has started back in April, it is, as I view it, strictly speaking not a beta test. In the past months, you have added new features into the mod, whereas a feature freeze is one of the defining rules of a beta test, so I would say, we're still in an alpha test phase ;-)

 

You are writing a big and awful peace of software. I really like the idea and the design of a mod spanning all parts of the saga and even extending it past the original end. I think, this is doable, although it will be not an easy path to go.

I'm sure you know, that in itself your mod has to contain lots of bugs, due to the shear amount of code. On top of that, it depends on a whole lot of additional mods, where you don't necessarily have source code access to, and which contain their own bugs and oddities, you have to deal with. Last but not least it runs on an engine which is buggy and has its limitations. All of this makes the development as well as bug hunting of the mod so much more difficult to deal with, compared to a standalone piece of software.

 

I want to encourage you, to not only continue the mod, but also to further go for the goal of having it included with a standard BWP/BWS install, not only something, experts will have their fun with. I can understand, if you are tired after 8 months of beta testing and want to come to an end and release it. But stay ahead and go for it. My advice would be to stop adding features and solely go for bug fixing, extend the beta period for another quarter and then decide again about the state of the project. I hope to still see this mod in a couple of years. Many thanks for this great awsome mod!

 



#779 Roxanne

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:05 AM

I agree with this:

"What the Big World does not need is another controverse mega mod that is more disturbing than anything."

But...

I am playing sandrah at the moment and I have done the cloakwood mines and I am in BG.

My first impression is very good.

One bug is detected: If you free Branwen, Sandrah says that she will depart because main char does not love her so much.

This is when Branwen is in group.

This is intended - but it only happens when you have stopped Sandrah's romance with the PC already and then you pick up Branwen. You have probably put your relationship with Sandrah on ice and she tells you, that you now have another competent cleric to take care of you and do not need her anymore.

Maybe the point is, that the concept of Sandrah shoul be changed. Her story and the ideas behind her are awesome and the interaction with other npcs is good as well.

Maybe the many mods included will make it difficult to include her.

But i am sure we will find a solution.

By the way... The portraits should be a different one....


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#780 waebbl

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:05 AM

My WeiDU.log

 

Spoiler

 

Sorry, my fault. I just saw some line of code spawning valen in the area script, just below code which is definitely added by SandrahNPC and assumed the spawning of valen is too related to it :-(

 

Did some more research, Valen and also her weapon has been added by DrizztSaga. Sorry for bothering you about this.


Edited by waebbl, 18 November 2015 - 07:44 AM.