1192 replies to this topic

[The Imp]

The story between her and Sandrah starts with Tarnesh even.

Yeah, k, make *Tarnesh give the speech* if Imoen is any kind of mage, the how she got it, aka what you chose during the Imoen speech in the start in Candlekeep was, there doesn't need to matter AT ALL ! Does it ? She could be a 20th level thief and 44th level mage, but if you prevent a check being made there... life won't go on as it could if you just bothered to check for it. Same as if Gandalf wouldn't have bothered to return to his old friend birthday party, he wouldn't have "inspired" the 4 hobbits to go toward the human village, and soon the whole would have looked a bit different. With a nice Orc army among the hobbit town rebellion, or what ever.
*plot point* be it what ever it is. Does the Bhallspawn want Edwin to be a non evil, make the talk allow you to choose, and make the quest starts to check for needed patterns, not non essential other choices that might had made sense in the scenario where the train never stops between the start and end spots.

Of course if Tarnesh ends up dead before he meets Imoen the mage, the quest never needs to start, it is the unseen hand of the killer that opted this option and he can learn to live with it. .

Edited by The Imp, 17 October 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Roxanne]

The story between her and Sandrah starts with Tarnesh even.

Yeah, k, make *Tarnesh give the speech* if Imoen is any kind of mage, the how she got it, aka what you chose during the Imoen speech in the start in Candlekeep was, there doesn't need to matter AT ALL ! Does it ? She could be a 20th level thief and 44th level mage, but if you prevent a check being made there... life won't go on as it could if you just bothered to check for it. Same as if Gandalf wouldn't have bothered to return to his old friend birthday party, he wouldn't have "inspired" the 4 hobbits to go toward the human village, and soon the whole would have looked a bit different. With a nice Orc army among the hobbit town rebellion, or what ever.
*plot point* be it what ever it is. Does the Bhallspawn want Edwin to be a non evil, make the talk allow you to choose, and make the quest starts to check for needed patterns, not non essential other choices that might had made sense in the scenario where the train never stops between the start and end spots.

Of course if Tarnesh ends up dead before he meets Imoen the mage, the quest never needs to start, it is the unseen hand of the killer that opted this option and he can learn to live with it. .

The Sandrah mod is not built in the way that you can have all possible quests for all constellations all of the time e.g,

- there is a quest for Haer'dalis you can only have if you have him and Sandrah in the party

- If you kill Brage instead of helping him to the temple for cure you will never see Shauhana

- The paladin quest only takes place if you have a paladin in SoA priot Brynlaw

- Viconia's quest in SoA only happens if her and Sandrah are in the party

So same way Imoen the mage apprentice only happens if Imoen the mage is in your party at the right time.

Decisions you make in my mod often go a long way - the quests are not just fetch something - kill a boss - get something - cash reward, they are supposed to tell some meaningful stories on top.

[geh4th]

So just to clarify for me and other players of the Sandrah mod (present and future)...is it true that to see the Imoen content, she MUST be a mage (either single or multiclass) from the very start of the game?

 

She can't follow the traditional dual-class thief-mage path without losing this content, is what you seem to be saying.

 

If that's true, so be it, it's your mod and your creative vision. However, I'll say again that I've not seen ANY content that would seemingly have required her to be a mage prior to a point (40,000-60,000 xp) where she would have likely dual-classed anyhow.

 

I'm still curious how Tarnesh's spellbook in it's current format (v1.08) could be regarded as a mage item and not a thief item. Unless I'm completely missing something about it's powers.

[Roxanne]

So just to clarify for me and other players of the Sandrah mod (present and future)...is it true that to see the Imoen content, she MUST be a mage (either single or multiclass) from the very start of the game?

 

She can't follow the traditional dual-class thief-mage path without losing this content, is what you seem to be saying.

 

If that's true, so be it, it's your mod and your creative vision. However, I'll say again that I've not seen ANY content that would seemingly have required her to be a mage prior to a point (40,000-60,000 xp) where she would have likely dual-classed anyhow.

You CAN dual class her but some people may not, I am not aware that this is *traditional*.

And...Imoen's quest is just one of many in the Sandrah mod that has some conditions to be available, there a quite a few others that will not happen if your party constellation or previous game decisions do not meet the requirements. See http://www.shsforums...-34#entry581635

There is probably no normal path through the game with a party of six where you can get ALL Sandrah contents in one play through, so Imoen is not that special.

I'm still curious how Tarnesh's spellbook in it's current format (v1.08) could be regarded as a mage item and not a thief item. Unless I'm completely missing something about it's powers.

Tarnesh spellbook is not part of the Sandrah mod at all (I think BG1NPC mod introduces it) and it has no hidden powers - I use it simply as a trigger to get things started.

[Roxanne]

So just to clarify for me and other players of the Sandrah mod (present and future)...is it true that to see the Imoen content, she MUST be a mage (either single or multiclass) from the very start of the game?

 

She can't follow the traditional dual-class thief-mage path without losing this content, is what you seem to be saying.

 

If that's true, so be it, it's your mod and your creative vision. However, I'll say again that I've not seen ANY content that would seemingly have required her to be a mage prior to a point (40,000-60,000 xp) where she would have likely dual-classed anyhow.

You CAN dual class her but some people may not, I am not aware that this is *traditional*.

And...Imoen's quest is just one of many in the Sandrah mod that has some conditions to be available, there a quite a few others that will not happen if your party constellation or previous game decisions do not meet the requirements. See http://www.shsforums...-34#entry581635

There is probably no normal path through the game with a party of six where you can get ALL Sandrah contents in one play through, so Imoen is not that special.

I'm still curious how Tarnesh's spellbook in it's current format (v1.08) could be regarded as a mage item and not a thief item. Unless I'm completely missing something about it's powers.

Tarnesh spellbook is not part of the Sandrah mod at all (I think BG1NPC mod introduces it) and it has no hidden powers - I use it simply as a trigger to get things started.

 

Maybe the Sandrah Imoen mage contents is too subtle?

*you needa show me the trick now that I'm your fellow mage-adventurer-friend*

*I dunno what happened. A miscast spell from Tarnesh's spellbook maybe*

* It's so cruel and unjust. And I can't even blow these damned orcs up with my fireballs.*

* Guess your Mystra coulda taken me then, she doesn't seem to care for such as long as your heart is in the right place.*

 

This is not Imoen the thief talking, right?

 

And Henning himself - a shopkeeper and a thief?? (An interesting perspective maybe, but not part of this mod)

 

Much of the Imoen/Sandrah interactions are around one being a Priestess of Mystra and the other being on her way to become one of Faerun's most respected mages (this is what her ToB endscreen tells us later).

Edited by Roxanne, 17 October 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[geh4th]

Ahh...so it's conceptual (text) references and not actual mod-included mechanical content that envisions her as being a mage. I see now.

 

I'm certainly not the most attentive dialogue-reader amongst players - that comes from playing the game umpteen million times - so yeah, things like this can end up being a bit subtle at times. I can sometimes gloss over even new dialogues and miss references like these. That's not your fault, it's mine.

 

And my apologies, I was unaware of the origins of the Tarnesh "spellbook". I thought it was your mod's content.

[Roxanne]

Ahh...so it's conceptual (text) references and not actual mod-included mechanical content that envisions her as being a mage. I see now.

The gifts she receives from Henning are for a mage, not for a thief.

I'm certainly not the most attentive dialogue-reader amongst players - that comes from playing the game umpteen million times - so yeah, things like this can end up being a bit subtle at times. I can sometimes gloss over even new dialogues and miss references like these. That's not your fault, it's mine.

 

And my apologies, I was unaware of the origins of the Tarnesh "spellbook". I thought it was your mod's content.

It is not your fault, this is how I used to play the game before I started the Sandrah project.

However, most of the new stuff, triggers hints etc is in dialogues, especially dialogues you may think you know by heart, so be careful.

You may even miss some quest by not talking to some non-joinable NPC because you think he/she has nothing to tell you that you do not yet know.

Play with open eyes.

 

And (just to hopefully close the issue) with respect to Imoen - we are talking about the Sandrah mod here, not of an Imoen mod - so everything is written from Sandrah's perspective as a Priestess of the Goddess of All Magic. Her whole relationship to other mages in the game is on that basis. Her relationship to thieves is quite different and deeply embedded in her family history (Probably you have not advanced far enough into the story to have found out about her involvement with Cyric).

Edited by Roxanne, 18 October 2015 - 12:27 AM.

[geh4th]

(Probably you have not advanced far enough into the story to have found out about her involvement with Cyric).

 

I actually just caught the first reference to that relationship via a Sandrah dialogue with Yeslick.

 

By the way, Pelligram is...impressive. She just solo'ed Davaeorn and killed him without needing any assistance whatsoever.

[Roxanne]

(Probably you have not advanced far enough into the story to have found out about her involvement with Cyric).

 

I actually just caught the first reference to that relationship via a Sandrah dialogue with Yeslick.

You probably see there is some relationship but I guess the true implication of what it really means may not become visible until the second half of SoA - unless you have a high lore index in the history of the Sword Coast yourself.

By the way, Pelligram is...impressive. She just solo'ed Davaeorn and killed him without needing any assistance whatsoever.

Lucky coincidence. She must have landed a critical hit before his defenses were up.

Edited by Roxanne, 18 October 2015 - 12:37 AM.

[geh4th]

Lucky coincidence. She must have landed a critical hit before his defenses were up.

 

Nope. He was fully buffed, and she just ripped him apart. My party was holding back since I knew there were traps in the hallway (I was trying to disarm them before charging in) but Pelligram didn't listen to my wishes to "not charge", as always. Off she goes, several rounds go by, and then he's dead, as are all of his henchmen. All by her lonesome. Davaeorn had plenty of time to do his worst to her but not only did she defeat him, he didn't hurt her at all. On insane difficulty. The rest of the party barely did a thing to anyone on that level.

[Roxanne]

Lucky coincidence. She must have landed a critical hit before his defenses were up.

 

Nope. He was fully buffed, and she just ripped him apart. My party was holding back since I knew there were traps in the hallway (I was trying to disarm them before charging in) but Pelligram didn't listen to my wishes to "not charge", as always. Off she goes, several rounds go by, and then he's dead, as are all of his henchmen. All by her lonesome. Davaeorn had plenty of time to do his worst to her but not only did she defeat him, he didn't hurt her at all. On insane difficulty. The rest of the party barely did a thing to anyone on that level.

From Pelligram's side this is what she does - attacking enemy spellcasters as preferred target. If she gets hurt, Sandrah would attempt to heal her. The issue may be rather in Davaeorn's script + insanity level = his spellcasting etc is targeted on the party and summoned creature (still out of sight) and probably ignoring her (probably Haiass as well).

This is very hard to say as there are plenty of mods that change Davaeron's fighting scripts (Sandrah does not). I have never encountered something similar myself.

[geh4th]

Heh. I just realized that when I "killed" Henning, my reputation dropped from 17 to 9, causing me to get an evil bhaalspawn power on my next rest rather than a good power.

 

Easy enough to fix, if I want to. It was just an ironic twist to the whole thing.

[Roxanne]

Heh. I just realized that when I "killed" Henning, my reputation dropped from 17 to 9, causing me to get an evil bhaalspawn power on my next rest rather than a good power.

 

Easy enough to fix, if I want to. It was just an ironic twist to the whole thing.

Good to hear.

Anyway - the issue that made Henning hostile is not limited to the Sandrah mod but is a global effect of one of the mods that change common scripts (actually it is the combination of some mods - one that assigns extra scripts to creatures and one that expands those scripts).

I found similar issues with the Nashkel guards going hostile while I was fighting a bandit attack there and the bandits *called for help* with the same code that the guards react to. The guards were all dead afterwards and my reputation at 0. Same for the Zernan quest into the Nashkel mines to re-capture the book for Candlekeep entrance. It is not the Sandrah mod that causes any of those effects but I have changed the wounded Henning so it is avoided with him now.

[Oracle]

Hi i have just had the balcony scence at elmisters house and at the end of it i got the backing the wrong horse speech i have saved the prisoners and being to waterdeep I have tried to Clua console but i get a syntax error message

[Roxanne]

Hi i have just had the balcony scence at elmisters house and at the end of it i got the backing the wrong horse speech i have saved the prisoners and being to waterdeep I have tried to Clua console but i get a syntax error message

?? What did you try to Clua??

[Oracle]

The san points sorry for the confusion

[Roxanne]

The san points sorry for the confusion

It would be

 

CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("Sanpoints","GLOBAL")

 

and the console will return some value

 

any misspelling including capital vs small letters will result in error

Edited by Roxanne, 19 October 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[Oracle]

got it this time the point is set to 45

Edited by Oracle, 19 October 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Roxanne]

got it this time the point is set to 45

This means you have done little to win her respect and she decides to leave you and no longer waste her time.

 

Did you initiate talks with her (PID), show interest in her and her story?

 

You do not always have to extremely sweet and nice to her, just react to her quests and suggestion and actively try to get her story out from her. The Global at this point in the game should be around 80 - 100, as a minimum it is 51 (mod version 1.08 or later).

[Oracle]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Roxanne" data-cid="581713" data-time="1445268955"><p>
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Oracle" data-cid="581712" data-time="1445268219"><p>got it this time the point is set to 45</p></blockquote>
This means you have done little to win her respect and she decides to leave you and no longer waste her time.<br />
 <br />
Did you initiate talks with her (PID), show interest in her and her story?<br />
 <br />
You do not always have to extremely sweet and nice to her, just react to her quests and suggestion and actively try to get her story out from her. The Global at this point in the game should be around 80 - 100, as a minimum it is 51 (mod version 1.08 or later).</p></blockquote>

Ok thank you i have probly slipped up with the PID thank you for the fast reply
I guess i should restart