1192 replies to this topic

[Samriel]

Spoiler

By the way, like another poster I'm trying to find Khattark by going into the severs. I talked with Ringothal but I do not find any crate that can be used in the initial map of WD(where the Temple of Splendor and Thermae are) Neither I experienced a shadow thief encounter. A bug or could it be a different area than I believed? I visited Elmister's home first and then had a meal sponsored by the mother whose baby I rescued. Maybe I shouldn't have done stuff in this order?Unless...I remember Ringothal saying how the bandit vanishes during dusk so maybe I should check the area at that specific time.

Edited by Samriel, 06 July 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[Roxanne]

Spoiler

By the way, like another poster I'm trying to find Khattark by going into the severs. I talked with Ringothal but I do not find any crate that can be used in the initial map of WD(where the Temple of Splendor and Thermae are) Neither I experienced a shadow thief encounter. A bug or could it be a different area than I believed? I visited Elmister's home first and then had a meal sponsored by the mother whose baby I rescued. Maybe I shouldn't have done stuff in this order?Unless...I remember Ringothal saying how the bandit vanishes during dusk so maybe I should check the area at that specific time.

Kattark

Spoiler

Look here 907/2475 in the area of the Thermae
The shadow thief encounter is in the house north of there,, after you found all the rooms and loot

[Evani]

Ok let me rephrase. I think I might miss ability development/interactions with NPCs that are not tied to what you've covered in the readme/not-a-walkthrough, particularly vanilla side quests in BG1.That part of the game is very repetitive for me and nowhere as interesting as BG2 combat or storywise. Going to Waterdeep is cool. That's not something I've done before.  Returning Joia's flamedance ring or bringing back a spider body, wine and boots to the Friendly Arm is something I probably wouldn't do unless I know there's something different when I could get to fighting Melanthium in Planar Sphere or finish a non-bugged Ascension sooner. Also in BW there is a just a lot of content. Some of them aren't particularly well written. I wouldn't spend much time on those. So far I love Sandrah's integration into BW. Makes Haiass much more fun to have around.

I get it that she develops according to the party members you interacted with. I just don't think I'll switch in and out 30 different npcs unless I know there's a specific side quest I need to complete. Also NPCs like the Jen'lig disappears for good if you don't keep them within the party as far as I can tell. I don't want to interact with them until I know I can take on their entire quest. I have to be strategic here when even Sandrah with all her gear can get 2 shotted by a random mob.

 

It's just frustrating for me to do perfect completionist run of everything when I can practically write a walkthrough of the game+older mods from memory.
So what I am asking is:

1. Which NPCs have interaction with Sandrah that gives some sort of reward?
2. Are the abilities & interactions mutually exclusive?

Example:
My BG1 party is PC, Imoen, Sandrah, Minsc, Dynaheir, (Viconia). I will swap out Viconia for Safana and Branwen because I know there's a specific side quest for them, then it's back to Viconia for BG2. Khalid and Jaheira interact a lot with Sandrah but I'm not too fond of them so I'll only keep them around until they are done with Sandrah, not the entire game. Garrick, Kivan and Coran seem to be a romance option for Sandrah so I want to know if they are mutually exclusive or not. If they are mutually exclusive then I would prefer to pick the one with the better ability since I will need everything I can get on Insanity++.

Hello,

 

I have recently installed an exhaustive BWS setup and restarting BGT with Sandrah. The combination adds a lot of content and given how many times I've played vanilla BGT, I'm likely to speed run through a lot of things till TOB and miss out stuff, especially when I usually don't switch party members very often.

 

Apart from the hints and the not-a-walkthrough( which covers the story), could you tell me which characters Sandrah needs to interact with in order to gain her abilities(and what they do) and upgrades?

 

Thanks!

The answer may be frustrating for your plan to rush through the game, but most likely Sandrah is not for you.

The story runs along the main plot of the PC including the major mods of BG1 (Dark Side, Northern Tales, Drizzt etc, etc.). There are also some longer diversions (e.g. to her hometown Waterdeep, that are required for her quest) Many issues are found in addition in those areas that had little content in the original game.

Regarding her upgrades and abilities - those depend very much on which party members you choose and which quests you do. Depending on which experience she makes in your company she will develop in different ways (and gain different abilities that way.)

[Roxanne]

General considerations for PC to Sandrah relationship

Thanks for the comments in the posts above. I think some of them can be used to further improve the mod and make it more interesting, without changing the general storyline and concept.

 

1. Sandrah sets out to find Imoen and the PC not to find adventures, a lover, or to join a party but primarily to find answers.

>>> the PC alignment, race, or other stats should not matter for her to join with the PC.

 

2. Sandrah is an open minded person from a capitale, she does not judge a book by the cover

>>>her initial relationship with the PC will work for any male/female PC as it is

 

3. Her "deeper" feelings for her companion will be delayed/advanced according to the deeds and decisions made during quests and the PC's willingness to improve in some areas, if necessary (e.g. take some lessons with Sandrah in polite conversation and dress code if Charisma is low - do some gainful exercises to gain strength....)

 

4. At some crucial points in the game (No, I will not tell which), some minimum requirements on the PC will be checked and Sandrah will provide her feelings if she thinks something is not too well.

 

5. The already existing breakpoints for

a. Sandrah following the PC into SoA,

b. Into ToB

c. providing the transition to RtF

will be maintained, but some additional criteria may be added.

 

6. There will not be an EVIL path for Sandrah where she can be corrupted by the PC in such a way to give up her basic principles. The whole RtF sequel would be compromised by that, unless a completely different sequel for this outcome would be created (possible but I prefer to get one thing working before I would start such a job.)

>>> The final outcome before the Melissan battle must meet conditions that are compatible for the sequel, i.e. Sandrah and the PC are still together (+ some conditions), they have solved Sandrah's quest, and they agree on the goal they have at the Throne of Bhaal.

[Samriel]

 

6. There will not be an EVIL path for Sandrah where she can be corrupted by the PC in such a way to give up her basic principles. The whole RtF sequel would be compromised by that, unless a completely different sequel for this outcome would be created (possible but I prefer to get one thing working before I would start such a job.)

>>> The final outcome before the Melissan battle must meet conditions that are compatible for the sequel, i.e. Sandrah and the PC are still together (+ some conditions), they have solved Sandrah's quest, and they agree on the goal they have at the Throne of Bhaal.

That could be handled easily enough. Simply let it play the evil ending by the end of ToB and make RtF unavailable for such a route. Basically an evil route would be the "shorter route".

 

Now that I think about it Bioware REALLY liked the concept of corrupting characters as they did it in Neverwinter Nights with Aribeth, In KoTOR with Bastila and in Jade Empire with Dawn Star and Silk Fox. It showed how even people of strong moral code and principles could fall under the right circumstances. Or then opposite: In ToB we had the option of turning the evil Viconia and Sarevok into neutral and good respectively. The thread between light and darkness can be thin indeed.

 

Sandrah is a very open minded person and she sought power not to destroy her enemies but to save others through healing. Could the best intentions and an open mind lead to the "dark side" if conditions were right? I think it is something interesting to explore.

 

Also one bug related thing:

Spoiler

After exiting Waterdeep and going a bit south I see almost right away an angry Naronguth. However, he plays his OLD text about how he wants the player to choose whether to give health, lend him Sandrah for naughty stuff, attack him or bluff. Granted, if I choose to bluff to reveal his rival's location or betray Sandrah then after the talk is over he starts a new talk during which he demands his slippers back and I can deceive him by giving him the ones Elminster gave me. It is not gamebreaking if I choose well but it feels kinda weird to go through his old lines-which are wrong at this point- instead of starting his correct text from the go.   

Edited by Samriel, 06 July 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[Bill Bisco]

That's a good point there. We don't get to corrupt anyone in vanilla BG. It would be nice to be able to corrupt Sandrah. It'd be nice to be able to corrupt other characters such as Imoen (heck she doesn't leave at 1 reputation), Mazzy, or Valygar.

[Roxanne]

 

6. There will not be an EVIL path for Sandrah where she can be corrupted by the PC in such a way to give up her basic principles. The whole RtF sequel would be compromised by that, unless a completely different sequel for this outcome would be created (possible but I prefer to get one thing working before I would start such a job.)

>>> The final outcome before the Melissan battle must meet conditions that are compatible for the sequel, i.e. Sandrah and the PC are still together (+ some conditions), they have solved Sandrah's quest, and they agree on the goal they have at the Throne of Bhaal.

That could be handled easily enough. Simply let it play the evil ending by the end of ToB and make RtF unavailable for such a route. Basically an evil route would be the "shorter route".

 

Now that I think about it Bioware REALLY liked the concept of corrupting characters as they did it in Neverwinter Nights with Aribeth, In KoTOR with Bastila and in Jade Empire with Dawn Star and Silk Fox. It showed how even people of strong moral code and principles could fall under the right circumstances. Or then opposite: In ToB we had the option of turning the evil Viconia and Sarevok into neutral and good respectively. The thread between light and darkness can be thin indeed.

 

Sandrah is a very open minded person and she sought power not to destroy her enemies but to save others through healing. Could the best intentions and an open mind lead to the "dark side" if conditions were right? I think it is something interesting to explore.

 

Also one bug related thing:

Spoiler

After exiting Waterdeep and going a bit south I see almost right away an angry Naronguth. However, he plays his OLD text about how he wants the player to choose whether to give health, lend him Sandrah for naughty stuff, attack him or bluff. Granted, if I choose to bluff to reveal his rival's location or betray Sandrah then after the talk is over he starts a new talk during which he demands his slippers back and I can deceive him by giving him the ones Elminster gave me. It is not gamebreaking if I choose well but it feels kinda weird to go through his old lines-which are wrong at this point- instead of starting his correct text from the go.   

Right - I found the reason for it, and also the reason why it always worked correctly in the tests. Most likely you kept the talking scroll in your inventory after the first quest was done. I will correct it.

[Roxanne]

That's a good point there. We don't get to corrupt anyone in vanilla BG. It would be nice to be able to corrupt Sandrah. It'd be nice to be able to corrupt other characters such as Imoen (heck she doesn't leave at 1 reputation), Mazzy, or Valygar.

 

The idea of corrupting a character of good intention AND high ambition is tempting. But Sandrah is not my candidate for this. Once you have learned all about her background and the ambition she has set for herself when starting RtF, this will become clear.

It is not the PC that changes her through the game but her growing insight into the mechanisms of the powers that are at work in Faerun and the role she can play alongside the PC in this. Her will to change some of that leads her to a choice of methods the young cleric from the beginning of BG1 would not be capable to think of.

Spoiler

She may not be *corrupting* the PC in the sequel - but she will show quite some methods otherwise assigned to some grandfather she claims not to be proud of.

There are more arguments against Sandrah to be corrupted completely by the evil PC.

1. It would really end her story at the ToB end - I have a lot of ideas of how to expand the RtF sequel but no plan to draft a sequel that would follow the *dark side*.

2. There are too many (powerful) forces that obviously follow Sandrah's and the PC's development through the trilogy. A drastic change to an evil path would not let them rest.

So, for me this would be a dead end.

 

Probably more realistic would be that the PC and Sandrah would come to follow such a path (out of good intention in the beginning) until they become aware of their error. Such an episode and corresponding quest could be staged in SoA Underdark with Sandrah playing her role in her drow avatar just too well. The role of a powerful woman in the Underdark and her knowledge about Eilestrae may tempt her (the PC will fuel this ambition by dialogue options) to grab for power and allies (think of Jarlaxle) that she cannot control. Her intention to use her role to improve things in the Underdark (almost) leads to disaster, leaving the blood of innocents on her hands. She and the PC will just be able to reverse their course in the last minute but at some high penalty.

[Roxanne]

Ok let me rephrase. I think I might miss ability development/interactions with NPCs that are not tied to what you've covered in the readme/not-a-walkthrough, particularly vanilla side quests in BG1.That part of the game is very repetitive for me and nowhere as interesting as BG2 combat or storywise. Going to Waterdeep is cool. That's not something I've done before.  Returning Joia's flamedance ring or bringing back a spider body, wine and boots to the Friendly Arm is something I probably wouldn't do unless I know there's something different

Spoiler

Looking for the ring lets you discover new encounters and hints in the area around the Friendly Arm compound.
The spider, wine boots quest leads you to the upper floor to discover Jen'lig

These are just two examples of how the mod is integrated into BG1. The mod was done with the idea of a player in mind who has done many things many times already and now will find new surprises where he thought he knows the game inside out. Galileo always had the same two lines, now he suddenly has something else to say if Sandrah is with you. Firebead sends you across the street to fetch a book - he also has something for Sandrah. The priest in Nashkel has more to reveil than before. Revisit Brage after you took him to the Temple. This list can become quite long...

There are also some challenging encounters in a lot of areas that had little interest before (I am not talking about respawning Hobgoblins)

 

when I could get to fighting Melanthium in Planar Sphere or finish a non-bugged Ascension sooner. Also in BW there is a just a lot of content. Some of them aren't particularly well written. I wouldn't spend much time on those. So far I love Sandrah's integration into BW. Makes Haiass much more fun to have around.

I get it that she develops according to the party members you interacted with. I just don't think I'll switch in and out 30 different npcs unless I know there's a specific side quest I need to complete. There is no sidequest you NEED to complete with an NPC in BG1, everything is optional, as are the rewards, you CAN have them but you do not NEED them.

 

Also NPCs like the Jen'lig disappears for good if you don't keep them within the party as far as I can tell. I don't want to interact with them until I know I can take on their entire quest. Jen'lig is part of the Sandrah mod

Spoiler

Her quest will end at the Sarevok showdown - she returns in ToB and can be recruited again (including another quest)

I have to be strategic here when even Sandrah with all her gear can get 2 shotted by a random mob.

 

It's just frustrating for me to do perfect completionist run of everything when I can practically write a walkthrough of the game+older mods from memory.
So what I am asking is:

1. Which NPCs have interaction with Sandrah that gives some sort of reward? All except Tiax and the Dark Side NPCs (they have no original contents so I never bothered with them, except for Jet'laya needed for the initial quest)
2. Are the abilities & interactions mutually exclusive? No

Example:
My BG1 party is PC, Imoen, Sandrah, Minsc, Dynaheir, (Viconia). I will swap out Viconia for Safana and Branwen because I know there's a specific side quest for them, then it's back to Viconia for BG2. Khalid and Jaheira interact a lot with Sandrah but I'm not too fond of them so I'll only keep them around until they are done with Sandrah, not the entire game. Garrick, Kivan and Coran seem to be a romance option for Sandrah so I want to know if they are mutually exclusive or not. If they are mutually exclusive then I would prefer to pick the one with the better ability since I will need everything I can get on Insanity++.This will work

Spoiler

You can pick up Jaheira and Khalid early and get their Sandrah contents (you will know when that is finished)
Sandrah herself will give you a hint about Branwen
You can keep Viconia until she delivers her story to Sandrah or you can just defend her from the flaming fist and let her go (In both cases you will get the quest item Sandrah needs from her)
You can try Garrick just for a change, do his Carnival + Ulcaster plot and he will leave you for some bard engagement when the Sandrah stuff is done, you need not even kick him out.
If you want Safana's Sandrah part you could temporarily pick her up, do her cave quest, visit Baldur's Gate with her and let her go after the Sandrah intermezzo there.

Coran and Kivan are more complex and different for male and female PC, probably not for one who is more interested in battle

Hello,

 

I have recently installed an exhaustive BWS setup and restarting BGT with Sandrah. The combination adds a lot of content and given how many times I've played vanilla BGT, I'm likely to speed run through a lot of things till TOB and miss out stuff, especially when I usually don't switch party members very often.

 

Apart from the hints and the not-a-walkthrough( which covers the story), could you tell me which characters Sandrah needs to interact with in order to gain her abilities(and what they do) and upgrades?

 

Thanks!

The answer may be frustrating for your plan to rush through the game, but most likely Sandrah is not for you.

The story runs along the main plot of the PC including the major mods of BG1 (Dark Side, Northern Tales, Drizzt etc, etc.). There are also some longer diversions (e.g. to her hometown Waterdeep, that are required for her quest) Many issues are found in addition in those areas that had little content in the original game.

Regarding her upgrades and abilities - those depend very much on which party members you choose and which quests you do. Depending on which experience she makes in your company she will develop in different ways (and gain different abilities that way.)

Edited by Roxanne, 06 July 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[Samriel]

That's a good point there. We don't get to corrupt anyone in vanilla BG. It would be nice to be able to corrupt Sandrah. It'd be nice to be able to corrupt other characters such as Imoen (heck she doesn't leave at 1 reputation), Mazzy, or Valygar.

 

The idea of corrupting a character of good intention AND high ambition is tempting. But Sandrah is not my candidate for this. Once you have learned all about her background and the ambition she has set for herself when starting RtF, this will become clear.

It is not the PC that changes her through the game but her growing insight into the mechanisms of the powers that are at work in Faerun and the role she can play alongside the PC in this. Her will to change some of that leads her to a choice of methods the young cleric from the beginning of BG1 would not be capable to think of.

Spoiler

She may not be *corrupting* the PC in the sequel - but she will show quite some methods otherwise assigned to some grandfather she claims not to be proud of.

There are more arguments against Sandrah to be corrupted completely by the evil PC.

1. It would really end her story at the ToB end - I have a lot of ideas of how to expand the RtF sequel but no plan to draft a sequel that would follow the *dark side*.

2. There are too many (powerful) forces that obviously follow Sandrah's and the PC's development through the trilogy. A drastic change to an evil path would not let them rest.

So, for me this would be a dead end.

 

Probably more realistic would be that the PC and Sandrah would come to follow such a path (out of good intention in the beginning) until they become aware of their error. Such an episode and corresponding quest could be staged in SoA Underdark with Sandrah playing her role in her drow avatar just too well. The role of a powerful woman in the Underdark and her knowledge about Eilestrae may tempt her (the PC will fuel this ambition by dialogue options) to grab for power and allies (think of Jarlaxle) that she cannot control. Her intention to use her role to improve things in the Underdark (almost) leads to disaster, leaving the blood of innocents on her hands. She and the PC will just be able to reverse their course in the last minute but at some high penalty.

Hmmm, but what about possible conflicting loyalties like the ones she got for her father, for her Goddess. for the PC, for her own moral code and for other dear friends? What if she ended up in situations where she would be forced to choose one over another and willingly or unwillingly betray one(or more) to protect others even when it is not necessarily the "right" thing to do? There are times when choices can change people even when said people are literally fanatically devoted to be good. In fact fanaticism itself can make one blind enough to make said person an extremist unable to see things. And being very empathetic can make one disillusioned if betrayed(or BELIEVING having been betrayed) or unable to protect the ones that are very dear to you.

 

Or what if she suddenly feels like she cannot trust anything anymore with her faith shaking? As if by seeing a REALLY bad and insane wizard being in Mystra's favor -and protection- simply because he/she helps spread magic and his/hers actions are good for magic even if they are repugnant morally? Kinda like she disagrees initially over how Mystra can tolerate guys like Red Wizards. Mystra is a REALLY neutral goddess from what I read and she mostly cares only about the Weave than about morality.

 

Not simply just the PC telling her to kick some dogs and her being easily manipulated into doing so.

 

And by "corrupted" she wouldn't have to evolve into a "Baby eater" super evil type of villain. Or one that randomly kills innocents for the lulz. More like a well intentioned extremist or one who lost hope to the point where said person's code of conduct becomes "flexible" enough to tolerate-and even perform personally- acts that can cause harm to innocent/good people without no longer being sad over it.

 

Basically lawful evil with a touch of honor instead of kill em all chaotic evil...

 

As for the forces that keep her a good girl...well...there could always an "accident" happen to them either at the hands of other villains or maybe a misunderstanding could lead to the PC killing them and prevent Sandrah from being kept on the side of the "light.

 

Regarding ending it her story prematurely it would only be an option for said evil path rather than letting it impossible for RtF being expanded with new stuff when following the normal path. Her involvement with the PC can end prematurely anyway due to certain factors(like the PCs actions and his/her bond with Sandrah or the lack of it) from what it looks like. Which allows for Sandrah to follow the PC to SoA and later to ToB. So it wouldn't be so different.

 

Otherwise...how about exploring the corruption theme with one of the new joinable characters in RtF?

 

But yeah...an evil route would be a rather time consuming operation and there is still stuff that can be expanded in the mod without undergoing such a colossal task. .

Edited by Samriel, 06 July 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[Bill Bisco]

There's a good interview with Ed Greenwood at https://m.youtube.co...h?v=7G3uMX4ZxpU There's a point in the video by which Ed relates that Mystra insists that Elminster allow the evil archmages to exist because they practice "the art". The purposeful failure of these forces of good to stop evil from propagating could be very damaging for Sandrah to find out. I figure that she could become hardened and determine that these so-called forces of good aren't worth their salt and that it's up to her to do what's necessary: the consequences be dam***! I could definitely see the road to tyranny from that.

[Evani]

Thanks Roxanne! This helped a lot. Just the right amount of spoilers

[Roxanne]

That's a good point there. We don't get to corrupt anyone in vanilla BG. It would be nice to be able to corrupt Sandrah. It'd be nice to be able to corrupt other characters such as Imoen (heck she doesn't leave at 1 reputation), Mazzy, or Valygar.

 

The idea of corrupting a character of good intention AND high ambition is tempting. But Sandrah is not my candidate for this. Once you have learned all about her background and the ambition she has set for herself when starting RtF, this will become clear.

It is not the PC that changes her through the game but her growing insight into the mechanisms of the powers that are at work in Faerun and the role she can play alongside the PC in this. Her will to change some of that leads her to a choice of methods the young cleric from the beginning of BG1 would not be capable to think of.

Spoiler

She may not be *corrupting* the PC in the sequel - but she will show quite some methods otherwise assigned to some grandfather she claims not to be proud of.

There are more arguments against Sandrah to be corrupted completely by the evil PC.

1. It would really end her story at the ToB end - I have a lot of ideas of how to expand the RtF sequel but no plan to draft a sequel that would follow the *dark side*.

2. There are too many (powerful) forces that obviously follow Sandrah's and the PC's development through the trilogy. A drastic change to an evil path would not let them rest.

So, for me this would be a dead end.

 

Probably more realistic would be that the PC and Sandrah would come to follow such a path (out of good intention in the beginning) until they become aware of their error. Such an episode and corresponding quest could be staged in SoA Underdark with Sandrah playing her role in her drow avatar just too well. The role of a powerful woman in the Underdark and her knowledge about Eilestrae may tempt her (the PC will fuel this ambition by dialogue options) to grab for power and allies (think of Jarlaxle) that she cannot control. Her intention to use her role to improve things in the Underdark (almost) leads to disaster, leaving the blood of innocents on her hands. She and the PC will just be able to reverse their course in the last minute but at some high penalty.

Hmmm, but what about possible conflicting loyalties like the ones she got for her father, for her Goddess. for the PC, for her own moral code and for other dear friends? What if she ended up in situations where she would be forced to choose one over another and willingly or unwillingly betray one(or more) to protect others even when it is not necessarily the "right" thing to do? There are times when choices can change people even when said people are literally fanatically devoted to be good. In fact fanaticism itself can make one blind enough to make said person an extremist unable to see things. And being very empathetic can make one disillusioned if betrayed(or BELIEVING having been betrayed) or unable to protect the ones that are very dear to you.

This is a topic of the mod already. There are many instances and occurances where the PC and Sandrah feel manipulated, misused etc by others. One red thread in the mod is the way of emancipating herself (and the PC and ultimately the mortals of the Prime) from those powers. This includes alliances with some darker forces at some time, if she thinks that would suit her purpose

Or what if she suddenly feels like she cannot trust anything anymore with her faith shaking? As if by seeing a REALLY bad and insane wizard being in Mystra's favor -and protection- simply because he/she helps spread magic and his/hers actions are good for magic even if they are repugnant morally? Kinda like she disagrees initially over how Mystra can tolerate guys like Red Wizards. Mystra is a REALLY neutral goddess from what I read and she mostly cares only about the Weave than about morality.

This is a topic of the mod already. (See next post)

 

Not simply just the PC telling her to kick some dogs and her being easily manipulated into doing so.

 

And by "corrupted" she wouldn't have to evolve into a "Baby eater" super evil type of villain. Or one that randomly kills innocents for the lulz. More like a well intentioned extremist or one who lost hope to the point where said person's code of conduct becomes "flexible" enough to tolerate-and even perform personally- acts that can cause harm to innocent/good people without no longer being sad over it.

 

Basically lawful evil with a touch of honor instead of kill em all chaotic evil...

 

As for the forces that keep her a good girl...well...there could always an "accident" happen to them either at the hands of other villains or maybe a misunderstanding could lead to the PC killing them and prevent Sandrah from being kept on the side of the "light.

 

Regarding ending it her story prematurely it would only be an option for said evil path rather than letting it impossible for RtF being expanded with new stuff when following the normal path. Her involvement with the PC can end prematurely anyway due to certain factors(like the PCs actions and his/her bond with Sandrah or the lack of it) from what it looks like. Which allows for Sandrah to follow the PC to SoA and later to ToB. So it wouldn't be so different.

 

Otherwise...how about exploring the corruption theme with one of the new joinable characters in RtF?

 

But yeah...an evil route would be a rather time consuming operation and there is still stuff that can be expanded in the mod without undergoing such a colossal task. .

What you are proposing here is not very far from the development Sandrah has in the last part of SoA and then in ToB.
Her personality by the beginning of RtF has undergone some changes that allows her to act in the Prometheus way that is the topic of the sequel.

Spoiler

And, yes, the portefolio of the person who could attempt to corrupt her is not the PC . It is a man who has been to hell and back already, who openly challenged the gods, who now seeks redemption (or maybe not, maybe just another chance) and a man who is more a match for Sandrah's growing ambitions than the orphan from Candlekeep whom she treats as an equal at bets but never as a superior. It should be clear from these hints who that NPC is.

Edited by Roxanne, 06 July 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Roxanne]

There's a good interview with Ed Greenwood at https://m.youtube.co...h?v=7G3uMX4ZxpU There's a point in the video by which Ed relates that Mystra insists that Elminster allow the evil archmages to exist because they practice "the art". The purposeful failure of these forces of good to stop evil from propagating could be very damaging for Sandrah to find out. I figure that she could become hardened and determine that these so-called forces of good aren't worth their salt and that it's up to her to do what's necessary: the consequences be dam***! I could definitely see the road to tyranny from that.

This topic is already a red thread in the Sandrah mod, initially shown in her reactions to Edwin or Shandalar, but becoming more apparent later in SoA (The Shauhana quests). The relationship of Mystra (and Sandrah) to the Weave rather than to magic as an art derived from that source is one of the main topics of the mod and the sequel. However those topics cannot be elaborated in the early stages of the game, they require the PC and Sandrah to find out something about themselves, their heritage and past and the anchestors in the first place. A story like that requires the complete trilogy to evolve (like it does in my mod)

[Samriel]

Yeah, so it could be like "hardening" her, kinda like could happen to Leliana from Dragon Age or Dragon Age Inquisition. A change in alignment could follow though like potentially with Sarevok in ToB...but with evil this time.

 

Spoiler

I'm slightly surprised why Sandrah does not hold all that much respect for the PC despite his feats. Granted the game did not offer much possibilities for the PC to really get ambitious but that could change...

 

Anyway, new suggestions:

 

1. How about making the PC more involved with Mystra herself? Like a PC who rejects Bhaal's ways and instead gains favor with Mystra and potentially could become her champion....or an actual full fledged CHOSEN?

 

I though about it since I saw how Sandrah could open the PC to Mystra's power(but just a little bit of it) if close enough to her relationship-wise. But what if the PC could gain even more favor and power with Mystra that goes beyond the relationship the PC got with Sandrah's herself? Gaining new far more powerful abilities as he/she is more and more trusted and held in high esteem by Mystra while figuring the intricacies and mysteries of the Weave to a level beyond what Sandrah herself ever could.

 

To make the PC one of her top agents in Faerun could be very interesting IMO. To battle her enemies like Cyric and Shar and doing actions that strengthen her position in the realms while securing the Weave from other threats like those who seek to usurp it from Mystra. It would be quite a promising option I think.

 

2. Speaking of Cyric it is a shame why he never got a bigger role in Baldur's Gate. Even without Mystra's involvement he was the one who originally possessed Bhaal's portfolio and was angry when he learned that the PC can regain his power and become the new Lord of Murder. Said meeting only happens briefly in ToB and it is stated that the only reason why he did not take a more active approach was due to Ao wishing for all gods to keep a neutral stance for this Bhaal's children affair and not intervene. That said if one of his chief enemies(Mystra) became more involved in this then at the very least Cyric could send his most powerful followers to destroy Gorion's kid instead of killing him personally(of which he is forbidden from doing so).

 

Cyric is mad after all and those who read the 4th edition know about the BIG thing that happened between him and Mystra...and its consequences. He could get angry enough to ignore Ao's decree and really get all of his resources to have the PC killed. Maybe even an Avatar fight by the end of ToB or RtF when the PC is REALLY powerful at that point? Anyway a god level enemy conspiring more openly against the PC could make for a very interesting enemy. Maybe involve Shar too as she is the one who possessed the Shadow Weave for a long time and was the one most eager to usurp the real one from Mystra.

 

So many possibilities...

Edited by Samriel, 06 July 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Roxanne]

Yeah, so it could be like "hardening" her, kinda like could happen to Leliana from Dragon Age or Dragon Age Inquisition. A change in alignment could follow though like potentially with Sarevok in ToB...but with evil this time.

 

Spoiler

I'm slightly surprised why Sandrah does not hold all that much respect for the PC despite his feats. Granted the game did not offer much possibilities for the PC to really get ambitious but that could change...

 

Anyway, new suggestions:

 

1. How about making the PC more involved with Mystra herself? Like a PC who rejects Bhaal's ways and instead gains favor with Mystra and potentially could become her champion....or an actual full fledged CHOSEN?

 

I though about it since I saw how Sandrah could open the PC to Mystra's power(but just a little bit of it) if close enough to her relationship-wise. But what if the PC could gain even more favor and power with Mystra that goes beyond the relationship the PC got with Sandrah's herself? Gaining new far more powerful abilities as he/she is more and more trusted and held in high esteem by Mystra while figuring the intricacies and mysteries of the Weave to a level beyond what Sandrah herself ever could.

 

To make the PC one of her top agents in Faerun could be very interesting IMO. To battle her enemies like Cyric and Shar and doing actions that strengthen her position in the realms while securing the Weave from other threats like those who seek to usurp it from Mystra. It would be quite a promising option I think.

 

2. Speaking of Cyric it is a shame why he never got a bigger role in Baldur's Gate. Even without Mystra's involvement he was the one who originally possessed Bhaal's portfolio and was angry when he learned that the PC can regain his power and become the new Lord of Murder. Said meeting only happens briefly in ToB and it is stated that the only reason why he did not take a more active approach was due to Ao wishing for all gods to keep a neutral stance for this Bhaal's children affair and not intervene. That said if one of his chief enemies(Mystra) became more involved in this then at the very least Cyric could send his most powerful followers to destroy Gorion's kid instead of killing him personally(of which he is forbidden from doing so).

 

Cyric is mad after all and those who read the 4th edition know about the BIG thing that happened between him and Mystra...and its consequences. He could get angry enough to ignore Ao's decree and really get all of his resources to have the PC killed. Maybe even an Avatar fight by the end of ToB or RtF when the PC is REALLY powerful at that point? Anyway a god level enemy conspiring more openly against the PC could make for a very interesting enemy. Maybe involve Shar too as she is the one who possessed the Shadow Weave for a long time and was the one most eager to usurp the real one from Mystra.

 

So many possibilities...

Spoiler

This almost sounds like you played Return to Faerun already????

All of this and more will happen sooner or later in the game if you continue with Sandrah, it is just not all obvious in the first few chapters of BG1 - a story like this needs space to evolve,. You will get much of what you expect from the mod as it already is

 

Many of the things suggested in recent posts are already included in Return to Faerun. I choose to leave the original game and its plot and ending intact in order for all the other wonderful mods to work as they were designed. Those ideas expressed by some posters are in the sequel where the storyline is all my own and I need not to integrate with an already existing game. In RtF I go new ways. Stay tuned.

Edited by Roxanne, 07 July 2015 - 12:23 AM.

[Samriel]

Errr...maybe I should not come with plot related ideas till I'm done with SoA at least or I might spoil myself everything

 

I swear I'm still in BG1. I'm not even in Baldur's Gate-the city-.

 

Though I did my best to make it so my ideas would expand and enrich the plot instead of trying to replace it as I really liked what I saw till now

 

Great minds think alike?

 

That said I got one not particularly plot related proposal for now:

 

Namely how about offering more reputation reducing options in quests that are Sandrah mod related? I tried to do my best as to not make Sandrah angry and to receive as much boons from quests as possible but as a result I'm now 20 reputation(heroic) and Jen'Lig did show me the middle finger as a result. How about adding maybe some options or responses for quests that are either tolerably evil for Sandrah (or enough in the gray area) but yield a reputation decrease so evil aligned NPCS do not abandon me?

 

Yeah, I could use that guy who offers to reduce rep via spreading bad reput but it kinda looks cheap as a solution and I'm kinda poor now...

 

As for the whole point of bad reput is kinda lame as there are no "infamy boons". Just guards after you...

 

Would be cool if actual infamy offered some actual perks too.

 

It is kinda a shame how Sandrah could abandon me if I kill accidentally a few innocents with a fireball aimed at enemies. I know its really bad nevertheless but it would be cooler if her leave only happened if PC treated her really bad, and/or displayed tendency to evil during quests while having low trust/love score with her and having low Charisma or stuff....

 

Also speaking about Jen'Lig, does she get a role in BG2? I wondered if I should go back  few saves and try to make a few misdeeds to keep her. But I'm not that rich to have that dude in the inn to pay him for that. So it leaves me killing folks. That is why more evil options in conversations while not always losing favor with Sandrah-and full EXP gain- could be useful I think.

Edited by Samriel, 07 July 2015 - 12:35 AM.

[Roxanne]

Errr...maybe I should not come with plot related ideas till I'm done with SoA at least or I might spoil myself everything

 

I swear I'm still in BG1. I'm not even in Baldur's Gate-the city-.

 

Though I did my best to make it so my ideas would expand and enrich the plot instead of trying to replace it as I really liked what I saw till now

 

Great minds think alike?

 

That said I got one not particularly plot related proposal for now:

 

Namely how about offering more reputation reducing options in quests that are Sandrah mod related? I tried to do my best as to not make Sandrah angry and to receive as much boons from quests as possible but as a result I'm now 20 reputation(heroic) and Jen'Lig did show me the middle finger as a result. How about adding maybe some options or responses for quests that are either tolerably evil for Sandrah (or enough in the gray area) but yield a reputation decrease so evil aligned NPCS do not abandon me?

?????? This behaviour is strange and not imbedded in the Sandrah mod??? I think you have some other mod installed that lets NPCs react this way if your reputation is too far from what they expect. Or did you assign some script to any of the two - this should not be done.

 

Yeah, I could use that guy who offers to reduce rep via spreading bad reput but it kinda looks cheap as a solution and I'm kinda poor now...

 

As for the whole point of bad reput is kinda lame as there are no "infamy boons". Just guards after you...

 

Would be cool if actual infamy offered some actual perks too.

 

It is kinda a shame how Sandrah could abandon me if I kill accidentally a few innocents with a fireball aimed at enemies. I know its really bad nevertheless but it would be cooler if her leave only happened if PC treated her really bad, and/or displayed tendency to evil during quests while having low trust/love score with her and having low Charisma or stuff....

 

Also speaking about Jen'Lig, does she get a role in BG2? I wondered if I should go back  few saves and try to make a few misdeeds to keep her. But I'm not that rich to have that dude in the inn to pay him for that. So it leaves me killing folks. That is why more evil options in conversations while not always losing favor with Sandrah-and full EXP gain- could be useful I think.

[Samriel]

Well, Jen'lig says: "Follow weak commander was a mistake. Jen'lig finds sword by herself".

 

Reputation: Heroic 19.

 

Sounds weird for her to have such a line if it wasn't planned for such a situation. And I only installed Big Mods, most NPC mods that were said to be compatible with Sandrah(maybe one or two that I liked but were not confirmed compatible with her) and hardly any tweaks aside from a few fix patches that were obligatory to install this mod in the first place. I did not assign anything either as I left everything for BWS to handle-when it comes to installing those mods- and I have not experimented with character scripts or stuff. I hardly play modder myself. Maybe it was due to adding a few powerful weapons via the cheat command...though I doubt it.

 

Should I attach a save? I got one right before she leaves me. And one when she stands alone after separating from my party and delivering said line.

 

As for Sandrah:

Spoiler

She left my group suddenly when I mistakenly hit a few innocents during a fight in an inn when attacked by assassins-got reputation 3-. I talked with her and she rejoined. Then soon I got a "vision" when she pleads with Mystra for the PCs sake and is saddened by how evil he is turning to be but says that she cannot abandon him yet because she loves him too much. I loaded an earlier save in this case so I wouldn't make Sandrah so sad but in Jen'lig case I was on the fence as I considered a few other NPCs to join my party and I got my team full with her so I did not reload in that case.

Edited by Samriel, 07 July 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[Roxanne]

Well, Jen'lig says: "Follow weak commander was a mistake. Jen'lig finds sword by herself".

 

Reputation: Heroic 19.

 

Sounds weird for her to have such a line if it wasn't planned for such a situation. And I only installed Big Mods, most NPC mods that were said to be compatible with Sandrah(maybe one or two that I liked but were not confirmed compatible with her) and hardly any tweaks aside from a few fix patches that were obligatory to install this mod in the first place. I did not assign anything either as I left everything for BWS to handle-when it comes to installing those mods- and I have not experimented with character scripts or stuff. I hardly play modder myself.

 

Should I attach a save? I got one right before she leaves me. And one when she stands alone after separating from my party and delivering said line.

 

As for Sandrah:

Spoiler

She left my group suddenly when I mistakenly hit a few innocents during a fight in an inn when attacked by assassins-got reputation 3-. I talked with her and she rejoined. Then soon I got a "vision" when she pleads with Mystra for the PCs sake and is saddened by how evil he is turning to be but says that she cannot abandon him yet because she loves him too much. I loaded an earlier save in this case so I wouldn't make Sandrah so sad but in Jen'lig case I was on the fence as I considered a few other NPCs to join my party and I got my team full with her so I did not reload in that case.

I think I know what the issue is, it is not a mod you have installed but a mod you have not, like BG2Tweaks Component3121 - NPCs can be angry about reputation but never leave. The more elaborate features that are in Jen'lig or Sandrah do not trigger since the default behaviour reaction to REP triggers first.

I will work on a patch for that.

Jen'lig does should not care at all about PC's reputation, why should a githyanki care about concepts of the prime??? She evaluates the PC according to the mayor battles he wins and the progress he makes in the quest.

Sandrah would react in different ways as well instead of just leaving.