53 replies to this topic

[Echo]

I'll paste scripts then, but what's odd is that it worked the same way after I replaced them with some other scripts just to check if anything will happen

 

First is: OVERRIDE SCRIPT - GENSHT01.BCS

Second is: DEFAULT SCRIPT - BPWDASGT.BCS

 

EDIT: I removed the scripts from here, too long and probably not even relevant. They're in the file attached to the post just in case, but I guess it's a conflict more than a script issue.

Attached Files

•  OrcScripts.txt   31.79K   196 downloads

Edited by Echo, 29 December 2014 - 05:20 AM.

[Linthar]

I've come across this problem in my testing of my own attempt at a mega install (and if I ever get this working to my satisifaction I need to remember to actually post some of the notes I've taken), and it seems to be caused by some interaction of BP's humanoid ai component and sword coast strategems giving orc mages and priests the wrong scripts.

 

I've attached the version of the orc mage and priest I have in the current version of my install that does not have the BP component I mentioned above installed. I haven't checked them in game in the current version of my install, but they in theory should work properly.

Attached Files

•  ORC03.CRE   2.3K   162 downloads
•  ORC04.CRE   1.69K   215 downloads

[Echo]

And there you have it, Linthar I replaced the Default script in my orcs with the DW#whateveryourshad, and the orcs are working nice and smooth.

 

I was so careful not to install any overlaying AI scripts this time (knew it was an issue), and yet I still managed to derp out. Oh well, at least in this case the cause is clear and easily fixable

 

Come to think of it, let's be useful for anyone with similar issues:

 

ORC3.CRE -> default script replaced with DW#ECL6.BWS

ORC4.CRE -> default script replaced with DW#2ENC6.BCS

 

I wonder if BP will give me any more issues like this :<

[Mad Mate]

You should not mix BP and SCS. Choose one or other. Both are AI mods.

SCS relies on vanilla scripts and changes them to SCS scripts, so if creature has some other script except vanilla, it just skips them.

[kreso]

I wonder if BP will give me any more issues like this :<

Yea, it will.

[The Imp]

I wonder if BP will give me any more issues like this :<

Yea, it will.

Just alone with SCS and BP no, as that's the BP's test ground, but throw in a few other mods and the creatures get to run in to a walls of spears, with hooks and so forth.

[Echo]

Generally while doing the installation I used Big World Setup. There I looked at every component's notes, if they said, for instance: component X from BP preferred to SCS. SCS preferred to Tactics. Then I installed the BP one. If it said (as it mostly did), SCS preferred to BP and Tacticts. BP preferred to Tactics component Y etc, I chose SCS one.

 

So, if I were to do a new install (and I'm considering that after I'm done with BG1, I want to get rid of iitem pack, stuff's OP, and change some other minor things), I assume that's not the best logic to go by? I should just skip entirely the BP part? I want a challenging game with smart (but non-cheating), more difficult opponents.

 

Also, could someone please tell me what's the real difference between using the BG1->BG2 transition with the BiG World as opposed to starting a new BG2 game with exported characters? I'm very curious, and with the possibility of needing a new install (really don't want some AI cabbagery), I'd like to know what I might be losing.

 

@Kreso

Do you recall any specific instance/fight/area where it happens? I'd port and check. My go-to check is always the sewer party in SoA sewers, as they didn't work right for me the past 2 BiG World installs, but this time they work just fine.

 

@The Imp

What other mods could be the problem? Any special offenders to look out for?

 

 

 

 

 

~~

When I look at it all, I see it'd be quite a feat to construct a stable installation with plenty new content (aside of HUGE mods, like NEJ or SOU, those kinda break my game immersion, no offense to creators, I'm sure they're awesome in their own right, but they feel too much like total conversions for me) that doesn't feel like cheating I've looked at the topic surfing around the front page here that somewhat touches on the issue, but his selection doesn't appeal to me. I've played this game so many times I want real, big changes and solid amount of new content, not just subtle refinements But while I seem to have done better this time, balance-wise, my team's still swimming in gold and OP lewts. Granted, fights were tough enough to make me feel I earned most of it, but I definitely have to install Aurora Shoes & Boots gold component next time around, and steer clear from funny vendors. Someone sold me a Mage Robe that lowered sorcerer's AC to 0 Comparing that to Archmage robes, they look just saaaaad, haha. But I just couldn't resist the shiny ._.

Edited by Echo, 29 December 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[Mad Mate]

Generally while doing the installation I used Big World Setup. There I looked at every component's notes, if they said, for instance: component X from BP preferred to SCS. SCS preferred to Tactics. Then I installed the BP one. If it said (as it mostly did), SCS preferred to BP and Tacticts. BP preferred to Tactics component Y etc, I chose SCS one.

BWS (great job from Dabus, Quiet, Alien...) mostly picks up mod order from heavily tested BWP (Leonardo's masterpiece) which makes sure that all mods installs without errors. That doesn't mean something won't be overwritten or replaced. That is why micbaldur & others (you included ) reports bugs & oddities.
Concerning mega-AI mods (BP&SCS), most secure way is that you choose only one of them. Can't say anything for Tactics, as I didn't test it (there is guide for compatibility between Tactics & SCS in SCS readme).

So, if I were to do a new install (and I'm considering that after I'm done with BG1, I want to get rid of iitem pack, stuff's OP, and change some other minor things), I assume that's not the best logic to go by? I should just skip entirely the BP part? I want a challenging game with smart (but non-cheating), more difficult opponents.

For AI part (after quest, item, spells, kits, rule changes mods) my suggestion is something like this:

• ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // General AI Improvements: v3.1 (SCS uses some QP scripts)
• ~POLYTWEAK/POLYTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #50 // PnP mind flayer attacks: v2.00
• ~STRATAGEMS components
• ~POLYTWEAK/POLYTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #60 // Improved (less buggy) trolls: v2.00
• ~POLYTWEAK/POLYTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #70 // Improved Umberhulks: v2.00
• ~POLYTWEAK/POLYTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #80 // Improved Yuan-Ti: v2.00
• ~POLYTWEAK/POLYTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #83 // Improved Minotaurs: v2.00
• ~POLYTWEAK/POLYTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #85 // Corrected Vampire Stats: v2.00
• ~ATWEAKS components

This is SCS related.
For BP I didn't test it yet, but some reviews says that is good, but different from SCS, which is great (I like diversity).

[Echo]

I couldn't download Polytweak when I did the install. Is it also in that poor rpgdungeon site? I had to search a LOT to finally stumble onto someone kindly pasting ImpAsylum somewhere. And your signature makes me sad, cause I also had a big headache finding that thing and you link it right there xD

 

I use BWS for the entire install, I trust it to order everything nicely. I remember installing mods in the times when it didn't exist, and I'm not too keen on that particular time travel. I LOVE this software. I'd throw kittens at it.

 

Hm, the review you linked says that SCS generally doesn't make everything much tougher. Maybe I'm a masochist, but I had a BLAST in original Tactics (I believe) Irenicus' Dungeon. The no-rest, no-door-closing, fuck-you-you're-doomed version. Took crazy tactics, but daaamn, when I got out! What a satisfaction

 

Although I think Tactics' Irenicus was overdoing it. I never got there, but I read the "walkthrough" and it seemed insane, and basically allowing to do it using 1 tactic only. That's not so fun.

 

I would certainly love for the entirety of the game to get much more difficult. It makes me think and be glad I found that sick item X after much struggles, cause I feel I actually need it

Edited by Echo, 29 December 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[Mad Mate]

Polytweak is in this thread:
http://gibberlings3....showtopic=25724
Waiting for Polytope return and version 3
This linked review is before we fixed SCS (now it is mostly bug-free), but wait few days, because DavidW is back and soon (this week) will release v29.
About Tactics from SCS readme:
Compatibility between Tactics and SCS depends on the components:

-Components which have a direct SCS analogue: common sense applies, only install the ones you want. These are: Improved Bodhi, Improved Golems, Improved Irenicus in Hell, Improved D'Arnise Keep, Improved Kangaxx, Improved Mind Flayers, Smarter Dragons, Smarter Beholders, Slightly Smarter Mages and Liches, Slightly Tougher Demons, Streamlined Trolls (which overlaps with SCS 's "Resilient Trolls"), Tougher Druid Grove (the Faldorn part ovelaps with SCS 's) Improved Faldorn, Improved Sahuagin City, and Improved Demon Knights (which overlaps with SCS 's Improved Fiends component).
-Components with no overlap with SCS : should be compatible. These are: Improved Ilyich, the Ritual, Kuroisan, Red Badge, Lich in the Docks, Fighter/Illusionist in the Docks, Improved Crypt King, Improved Nymphs, and the kits. Install these before SCS.
-The "Improved Maevar" component is incompatible with SCS's "Smarter Arcane Spellcasters". Only install one of them.
-The "Always Toughest Random Spawns" component is basically the same as the toughest setting of SCS 's "Increase difficulty of level-dependent monster groupings" component. I recommend that you use the latter, as it has the same overall effect but is coded in a way that will cause fewer problems for SCS and other mods. (The Tactics version is known to cause some (harmless) warnings when installed with some components of SCS .)
-Improved Undead is basically not compatible with SCS . If you want to try it anyway, it will need to be installed after SCS (it's the only component of Tactics for which this is true).-Tougher Druid Grove is probably incompatible with SCS 's "Smarter Divine Spellcasters". Try at own risk.
-Tougher Fire Giants appears to be compatible with SCS 's "Improved Fire Giant Temple". Install the Tactics version first, and you should find that fire giants get both the Tactics and the SCS upgrades.

Edited by Mad Mate, 29 December 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[Echo]

I didn't really look at the bugs part I've been using mods for far too long to mind, and I know SCS is being updated (kudos to all) which makes it better each time I play. I'm sure whatever bugs are left they are a breeze now.

 

The only thing I worry about after the review, is that if I don't install BP components, and roll only SCS it will be too easy. Also, AFAIR those Tactics components mentioned here are also included in another mod, and that another mod [could it be BP here?] is marked as preferred to Tactics actually.

Edited by Echo, 29 December 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[Mad Mate]

I don't think SCS will be too easy. It all depends "whichever combination of components you like - there is a separate one for each major AI / tactical change".
Point is, if you decide for BP, don't choose any SCS components, and opposite, if you decide for SCS, don't choose any BP components.
There are too many dependencies between components, and one mod messes with scripts of other (they are doing, basically, same thing).
Tactics is old mod and SCS takes it in account as you can read in readme, and some SCS components are reworked Tactics.
For making SCS even harder there are some options in ini file, but for that, some expert players like Kreso, Polytope or folks on BG No-Reload Challenge forum can answer much better then me.

Edited by Mad Mate, 29 December 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Crevs Daak]

For making SCS even harder there are some options in ini file, but for that, some expert players like Kreso, Polytope or folks on BG No-Reload Challenge forum can answer much better then me.

Yeah, but none of those adds more creatures to some encounters, and many things remain fairly easy too (this is why I'm writing my own Improved enemies (well, Improved Tranzig and Improved Zombie farm so far, and yet I have to WeiDU-ize them, since I made them before knowing WeiDU) components, mostly for BG1, but some from BG2 are also too easy).

[kreso]

For SCS:

- BG1 - the battle with 2 mages and 2 fighters in front of Cloakwood mine is very difficult (can be ignored)

          - Iron Throne can be difficult, but one can simply ignore it

          - final vs Sarevok is insane if you don't rely on invisibility

          - some mage battles on Ice Island are fairly hard

          - Aec'Laetec is difficult w/o invisibility

 

- BG2 - Improved Abazigal Enlcave is fairly difficult if you don't powergame or use imba mod items.

           - demons in WK

           - Sendai 

           - Ascension

           - vampires (constitution drain)

           - Irenicus in Hell (only for his Timestop-melee)

           - Shadow Thieves if you side with Bodhi

 

If you want to really crank up  the difficulty, use Revisions - the sole fact that Dispel Arrows are nerfed make the game a lot harder. It does get a bit easier upon exiting Underdark, then again quite difficult in ToB.

Ofc, God only knows what one can get with some mod-added items/kits/spells, hence it's fairly difficult to gauge the difficulty in Megamod installs. EXP gain can also affect the game drastically.

Weimer's Anti-Paladin kit (I've seen Youtube videos where a guy used 2(!) of them to "beat" SCS. For those unfamiliar with the kit - it's an Inquisitor with Grandmastery who cannot wield Carsomyr but dispels-on-hit with any weapon. Yes yes, it their hands a non-enchanted sword dispels PFMW on touch, and Ravager is no-save-vorpal with dispeling properties...the drawback - Anti Paladin must be evil. He can be any race naturally. If you think Inquisitor is imba think again.),  Dark Horizons items in BG1, TDD spells, aTweaks Elementals, Weimer's Item upgrade etc. can make the game very easy. 

Then again, having 4 sorcerers in ToB will usually have the same impact w/o any items with chaining ADHWs. fighter-mage dual is also insane with Time Stop/melee whacking.

What works for my gaming pleasure is Ascension+Revisions+Refinements+SCS+some aTweaks+some low key quality mods (Unfinished Business, Xan NPC, Kivan NPC, Dingo's Questpack) and that's it. 

The longest I got in No-Reload was Saradush sewers  (for those who think No-Reloads, even on vanilla install are easy - they're not. Not only one has to know the game inside-out, but keeping your concentration up  for so long is very difficult) only to have my protagonist killed by soldiers there when my wife entered my room; dropping my concentration and ending the game. 

BP can be rather deadly in fact since it beefs up some stuff SCS doesn't - Shadows, Wraiths etc. Having a Wraith cast Flesh to Stone is both surprising and an easy game-ender for a No-Reload game. AI-wise, it's nowhere near SCS. Has it's moments, but it's rather buggy in latest version so I avoid it. 

Oh, and I don't play anything for my protagonist apart single-class Kit Revisions fighters or paladins.

[The Imp]

@The Imp

What other mods could be the problem? Any special offenders to look out for?

Well, you can --change-log the orc03.cre file and find out what mods change the scripts it has assigned... but no specific ones. Well, and the mods that change the scripts themselves.

[Echo]

@The Imp

 

I'm pretty sure it was BP It's a guess, but the "buggy" script name was BPWDASGT.BCS. BUT! But my hope is that it was something about NtoSC being incompatible with it or something. I'll have to port around BG2 a bit more I guess, becase

 

@Kreso & CrevsDaak

 

I do want there to be more enemies or some new skills in them and to have things that SCS doesn't touch upon also improved. And - and that's probably what gets me into bugs - I want those goodies alongside SCS AI and the components it has :< I'll look for some creature that also has similarly-named script and I'll port to see if they're fine.

 

Although it looks like this particular issue is super easy to fix if only I know the other script that should be there. I'd just check with vanilla game, but I don't recall orc mages/shamans being there at all? Aren't they from IWD or something? Damn, shame on me. I THINK there were regular orcs in Windspear Hills, but I thought I knew this game better xD

 

@Kreso

 

Wait, is the NoReload meaning also you cannot pause? So your wife could distract you like that? Also, you cannot save and go to sleep? I thought those things ended only with character's death xD But still, it's not something I'd ever enjoy. I like to play slowly, I don't take any pleasure from rushing things or getting frustrated for dying for whatever reason. If I see a lich and my team is lvl 8 fresh out of Irenicus' prison, you bet I'm gonna try to fight that lich, die in 2s, and decide I'm not that awesome

 

Kit-wise, I never play with kits. I don't know, they irk me, I don't like them. I only like Wild Mage cause that kit is just fun Unless it sucks in most of my gold, I notice it the next day, and I have to go back X hours or my OCD will kill me xD That Anti-paladin sound fun. Not. I mean maybe if you play single character in a deviously modded game and normal class would just not suffice. I don't know, to each their own, I play my own way too that would make some hardcore challengers gnaw at their mouse cable. I use the dreaded Mage/Rogue/Fighter, cause I hate Jan, I like to use Katanas, and I like spells and tactics they allow for

 

Also, I guess I'll try using bows this time I never even knew the arrows of dispelling were strong. I don't think I ever used any after my 1st playthrough. Simple math:

 

1 character = 1 bow

 

but

 

1 character = 2 shiny magical weapons that I cannot just... *sell*, cause that would be BLASHPHEMY, CMON

[kreso]

@Kreso

 

Wait, is the NoReload meaning also you cannot pause? So your wife could distract you like that? Also, you cannot save and go to sleep? I thought those things ended only with character's death xD But still, it's not something I'd ever enjoy. I like to play slowly, I don't take any pleasure from rushing things or getting frustrated for dying for whatever reason. If I see a lich and my team is lvl 8 fresh out of Irenicus' prison, you bet I'm gonna try to fight that lich, die in 2s, and decide I'm not that awesome

 

Kit-wise, I never play with kits. I don't know, they irk me, I don't like them. I only like Wild Mage cause that kit is just fun Unless it sucks in most of my gold, I notice it the next day, and I have to go back X hours or my OCD will kill me xD That Anti-paladin sound fun. Not. I mean maybe if you play single character in a deviously modded game and normal class would just not suffice. I don't know, to each their own, I play my own way too that would make some hardcore challengers gnaw at their mouse cable. I use the dreaded Mage/Rogue/Fighter, cause I hate Jan, I like to use Katanas, and I like spells and tactics they allow for

Ofc you can sleep, pause (there are fights where you'll want autopause on all available instances) and save your progress, take a break from gaming for several months, use mods, whatever - it's your game.

Distraction doesn't mean you don't pause, but (in my case) I divided attention in between nagging wife and having a few options in game what to do. I chose wrong one (drank a healing potion), got stuck in between 6 fighters with HLAs, and that was that..

The game ends once your protagonist dies (or, in case of soloers, Mazed, Charmed etc - basically, once the death animation plays and you see the message "you must restart your game" you're done).

Most of my attempts took days, if not weeks. 

I can understand why you wouldn't like it: in my case - I've tried a No-Reload and never got back to "regular" game. I can only imagine how epic it must be to see your lvl1 Candlekeep noob defeating Ascension+SCS Melissan, without ever dying, or reloading for any reason, be it Aerie chunking, petrified Minsc or whatever.

There are people at No-Reload thread which can end BG1 in less then few hours with virtually any kit (see Grond0's runs). I'm a "completionist", I like to gather items, exp etc.

The problem with my approach is that the longer you play, the chances of dying get progressively higher. 

I never like vanilla kits as well, but Kit Revisions kind of changed that so I enjoy the game again (I don't really enjoy caster-types).

[Echo]

Well, I'm sure it gives someone plenty of satisfaction It's like every challenge. That's why I install the hardest mods I can find to feel accomplished when I FINALLY get the right tactic for some encounter But gods, I cannot imagine doing no-reload as a completionist haha. I mean, you play 20 hours, do the quests, gather everything, and then you suddenly die. And what? Do you start over? Do the same quests etc all over again right after? Or do you wait for a year to get over the frustration and perhaps forget bits to make it feel less repetitive?

 

Aerie and Minsc examples remind me of a time-challenge my mods gave me last time I played xD It wasn't voluntary, but something bugged real bad, and my NPCs were slowly becoming unresponsive No amount of cheating or SKeepering helped. First I lost Aerie, then a bit later Minsc followed. Then the bug had taken Jaheira. It was like a race with time I tell you ;D

 

I had no idea that Maze/Charm were ending the game honestly (never played a solo game, kills the fun for me). That sounds really stupid for a no-reload challenge (or a normal game even). I mean, there's not even a way to save vs. Imprisonment, is there? Not sure about Maze. And doing a save vs. Charm is such a damn random thing. What do you do? Avoid every mage/sirine before you get Helm of Charm protection? What about the Imprisonment/Maze?

Edited by Echo, 30 December 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[kreso]

you play 20 hours, do the quests, gather everything, and then you suddenly die. And what? Do you start over? Do the same quests etc all over again right after? Or do you wait for a year to get over the frustration and perhaps forget bits to make it feel less repetitive?

It's not really like that tbh - I don't get easilly frustrated, even less so about playing BG. I play when I got the time and desire. If I lack any of those two, I don't play. Many players got up to Melissan or Abazigal only to die there. Trying to carry the Unseeing Eye rod out of sewers since you forgot it kills you via scripted death?  Shit happens, game is over, life goes on. 

 

 I mean, there's not even a way to save vs. Imprisonment, is there? Not sure about Maze. And doing a save vs. Charm is such a damn random thing. What do you do? Avoid every mage/sirine before you get Helm of Charm protection? What about the Imprisonment/Maze?

Knowing the game and it's mechanics is (big) part of the challenge. What do I do? I don't depend on "damn random things".

[Echo]

Yea, but I recall Abazigal's son had Imprisonment spell, didn't he? It's been a long time ago, but I'm almost sure of that. What does a solo-player do about that? You can't just skip the bastard, can you?