75 replies to this topic

[Sergio]

Edited by Sergio, 06 September 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Tash]

In response to a review by one Jess Colwill, which, frankly, I just fail to comprehend (link provided by Eleima in the appropriate thread). I'm being a real jerk here, sorry.

 

For now, let's put all the dispute about alleged enhancements aside. The author sportively writes: "One new change . . . that I can’t applaud enough though is Story Mode. . . . you are also invulnerable and get 100% more experience." Then he follows with a confession that he "resigned" himself to never turn it off, so that "[he] could do something else while all this tedious battling was taking place." Seriously, is he mocking every single BG/IWD community out there?

 

Mr. Colwill, do you intend to play the game or screw around with cheats like you don't even care? How about you not play the game, and just fastforward through somebody's Let's Play?

 

Please, if you want to review this game and possibly affect somebody's opinion, play it. If all you care about is the story, then why do you even discuss combat? You didn't even play the combat.

 

Every single review I read about IWD points out this one supposedly major flaw: "It's not BG; it's a dungeon crawler." Of course you'll be disappointed by the second time you just click attack and all six of your party members die to Ghouls. "My tactic didn't work; badly-designed dungeon crawler. It's not BG2, which was easy, but had a cool story!" Really?

 

At the very least, if you want to be received as a gamer-reviewer, do it without cheats. I understand that this could be somebody's playstyle; cheats, you know. But then maybe you should consider writing book/movie reviews. They are shorter, you get paid faster or you simply get whatever you want quicker.

Edited by Tash, 30 October 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[Almateria]

Purrhaps the BG2-style combat is hot garbage that no person should be exposed to, and there's nothing wrong with using an in-built option

[Yovaneth]

IWD was always positioned as a dungeon crawl so: no excuse to take the 'easy' option. Complete waste of time otherwise if you expect anything different.

 

-Y-

[Cuv]

Wow, another EE hate thread disguised as a news post.  Why am I not surprised Almateria?  I guess nobody else takes you seriously, so I won't either.

[Almateria]

Cool

If that's it, please refrain from posting towards me, or indeed at all.

 

IWD was always positioned as a dungeon crawl so: no excuse to take the 'easy' option. Complete waste of time otherwise if you expect anything different.

The real question is why this option is there in the first place, but surely only the WhitEE Knight Cuv can answer that

Edited by Almateria, 31 October 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Tash]

Well, I don't want to sound like an EE hater, but I'm generally disillusioned when it comes to gaming these days. I'm not surprised that people just can't take it anymore.

 

Yovaneth, I agree with you. Now, some of you have experience in game design. From the designer's standpoint, are we really facing the era of casual gaming; the new playstyle of handholding gamers through straight corridors? Is this a necessary evil to make a living from games?

 

I believe the inclusion of the "Story Mode" signalizes alarming changes for anyone who grew up gaming in the pre-PlayStation 2 times. If you have time to spare, here's a flawed-but-valid video review which illustrates this shift.

 

While I'm not a dedicated follower of the Elder Scrolls series, several comments made by the author of the video apply to many other games released in the recent years. To sum it up, games are no longer about gaming as we grew to understand it; it's all about no-stress, no-fear-Shakespeare and unadulterated fun intended for multi-tasking casual gamers: people who don't really want to concentrate all that much on the screen, as they're probably watching TV at the same time, partying in a motley group, or chatting with their friends on the bus (ie, tablets).

 

In my opinion, IWD was still made before this shift, but now Beamdogs seem to behave like an in-crowd wannabe high school girl; everyone else is doing it! I don't blame them -- it's the change of the target audience, isn't it?

 

I have to admit that in the past, I used cheats in games and it was fun. There was this one gem of a game, Trespasser, that I just couldn't stomach; so I typed in a disable-all-dinosaurs cheat for smooth sailing. But that's precisely a classic cheat -- you want to brag about it in front of your friends who don't have internet and "GameFags" cause it's still the 90s. Now, the "Story Mode" is also a cheat to me, but available as a regular option to play (duh, is that really playing?) the game.

 

What gives? Times change...

Edited by Tash, 31 October 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[Cuv]

I call em like I see em -

 

Story Mode is totally optional.  You can turn it on and off at will.  It is 'off' by default.  Just don't use it, I don't.  It's like Druids - they are there, but I pretend they aren't.

[Almateria]

Then your calling the EE games anything short of awful makes me doubt your perception.

[Avenger_teambg]

It's incredibly low effort and they're not even pretending that it's not all solvable by mods.

 

This is such a dimwitted statement, i couldn't even imagine how could you arrive at it. Do you have a complete conversion in the making? Why don't you release it?

I started adding code to IWDEE without the source code in hand, we did receive the source a while later (particularly the HoW source near the end of the development).

So, don't blab about efforts if you don't know one. 

The engine now allows modding of projectiles like GemRB does. That alone would worth this from a modder perspective (if you ever did something more than NPC mods).

[Avenger_teambg]

- spawns were managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures

 

Those spawns managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures work much better than the current spawning system in BG(n):EE as people going through dungeons like the Firewine Ruins can easily experience for themselves. It's one of the main reasons why I still prefer Tutu over BG:EE.

 

See also this: http://forum.baldurs...on-respawn-rate

 

Except that in IWDEE we support spawn inis. Heh. People, really, you should at least peek under the hood before posting wild claims.

[Erg]

- spawns were managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures

 

Those spawns managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures work much better than the current spawning system in BG(n):EE as people going through dungeons like the Firewine Ruins can easily experience for themselves. It's one of the main reasons why I still prefer Tutu over BG:EE.

 

See also this: http://forum.baldurs...on-respawn-rate

 

Except that in IWDEE we support spawn inis. Heh. People, really, you should at least peek under the hood before posting wild claims.

 

First, I'm not going to buy IWDEE just to peek under the hood.

 

Second, when Beamdog is involved I'm sequential, so because I had the bad idea to buy BG:EE, I'm still waiting for Beamdog to fix the spawning system in BG:EE (i.e. it should at least be on par with vanilla BG1 and not nerfed for casual players) before even consider buying anything else from them.

 

Edit: also I fail to see what is wild in my claim and what it has to do with inis in IWD:EE. I never mentioned inis or lack thereof (actually I didn't mention IWDEE either). Besides, you can have a spawning system based on inis in IWD:EE and the spawns can still be nerfed for casual players. After all, IWD:EE is clearly oriented to casual players as the introduction of the "Story Mode" shows.

Edited by Erg, 31 October 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Avenger_teambg]

- spawns were managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures

 

Those spawns managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures work much better than the current spawning system in BG(n):EE as people going through dungeons like the Firewine Ruins can easily experience for themselves. It's one of the main reasons why I still prefer Tutu over BG:EE.

 

See also this: http://forum.baldurs...on-respawn-rate

 

Except that in IWDEE we support spawn inis. Heh. People, really, you should at least peek under the hood before posting wild claims.

 

First, I'm not going to buy IWDEE just to peek under the hood.

 

Second, when Beamdog is involved I'm sequential, so because I had the bad idea to buy BG:EE, I'm still waiting for Beamdog to fix the spawning system in BG:EE (i.e. it should at least be on par with vanilla BG1 and not nerfed for casual players) before even consider buying anything else from them.

 

Edit: also I fail to see what is wild in my claim and what it has to do with inis in IWD:EE. I never mentioned inis or lack thereof (actually I didn't mention IWDEE either). Besides, you can have a spawning system based on inis in IWD:EE and the spawns can still be nerfed for casual players. After all, IWD:EE is clearly oriented to casual players as the introduction of the "Story Mode" shows.

Just because the original poster mentioned "spawns were managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures". It was about IWD and how vanilla BG cannot really support IWD-like spawning.

[Erg]

- spawns were managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures

 

Those spawns managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures work much better than the current spawning system in BG(n):EE as people going through dungeons like the Firewine Ruins can easily experience for themselves. It's one of the main reasons why I still prefer Tutu over BG:EE.

 

See also this: http://forum.baldurs...on-respawn-rate

 

Except that in IWDEE we support spawn inis. Heh. People, really, you should at least peek under the hood before posting wild claims.

 

First, I'm not going to buy IWDEE just to peek under the hood.

 

Second, when Beamdog is involved I'm sequential, so because I had the bad idea to buy BG:EE, I'm still waiting for Beamdog to fix the spawning system in BG:EE (i.e. it should at least be on par with vanilla BG1 and not nerfed for casual players) before even consider buying anything else from them.

 

Edit: also I fail to see what is wild in my claim and what it has to do with inis in IWD:EE. I never mentioned inis or lack thereof (actually I didn't mention IWDEE either). Besides, you can have a spawning system based on inis in IWD:EE and the spawns can still be nerfed for casual players. After all, IWD:EE is clearly oriented to casual players as the introduction of the "Story Mode" shows.

Just because the original poster mentioned "spawns were managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures". It was about IWD and how vanilla BG cannot really support IWD-like spawning.

 

Exactly. Hence my statement that the spawning system in IWD-in-BG2, despite being managed by a bewildering array of invisible creatures, is IMO still better than the spawning system in BG:EE (I don't know about IWD:EE, didn't buy nor I intend to, at least for the time being). Why? Because it hasn't been nerfed on purpose just to make the game more palatable to casual users.

 

It is easy to verify that the spawns in BG:EE have indeed been nerfed compared to vanilla BG1. For example, just compare them in areas like Firewine Ruins or Gnoll Stronghold.

 

Now I'm curious. How does the spawning system in IWD:EE compare with the one in vanilla IWD? Has it been nerfed on purpose too?

Edited by Erg, 31 October 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Avenger_teambg]

It is exactly the same. Besides, the spawning system in BGEE wasn't intentionally nerfed. There was a bug that caused instant respawns on quicksave/reload.

Actually, we work on a fix that would restore the spawn rates without this bug. But this should be entirely unrelated to IWDEE, because in IWD(EE) they didn't use the BG spawn system.

They used their own .ini which has different features.

Edited by Avenger_teambg, 31 October 2014 - 11:10 AM.

[Erg]

It is exactly the same. Besides, the spawning system in BGEE wasn't intentionally nerfed. There was a bug that caused instant respawns on quicksave/reload.

Actually, we work on a fix that would restore the spawn rates without this bug. But this should be entirely unrelated to IWDEE, because in IWD(EE) they didn't use the BG spawn system.

They used their own .ini which has different features.

 

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that there is nothing wrong with BG:EE, because it has already been fixed, or that you are currently working on a fix for the next patch?

 

If the former, then you are clearly not very up to date on the matter. In that case check the official BG:EE Forums or speak to Dee and he can confirm that the decision to drastically tone down spawn rates was taken intentionally to accommodate casual players.

 

Also this is not unrelated to IWD:EE because if you are saying that there is nothing wrong with the spawning system in BG:EE at the moment, than I cannot trust your judgement about IWD:EE.

 

Edit: Found the relevant post from Dee on the official BG:EE Forums: http://forum.baldurs...#Comment_544332

Edited by Erg, 31 October 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[The Imp]

Besides, the spawning system in BGEE wasn't intentionally nerfed. There was a bug that caused instant respawns on quicksave/reload.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you correctly....
If the former,
 

Clearly, cause there was a bug that needed a fix (instant re-spawning with quicksaves and loads). So if it's the later ... ???? Just curious.

Edited by The Imp, 31 October 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[Erg]

It is exactly the same. Besides, the spawning system in BGEE wasn't intentionally nerfed. There was a bug that caused instant respawns on quicksave/reload.

 
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you correctly....
If the former, then you are clearly not very up to date on the matter. In that case check the official BG:EE Forums or speak to Dee and he can confirm that the decision to drastically tone down spawn rates was taken intentionally to accommodate casual players.

 

Clearly, cause there was a bug that needed a fix (instant re-spawning with quicksaves and loads). So if it's the later ... ???? Just curious.

 

If it is the latter, I will patiently wait for the next patch, then I'll check if the vanilla behaviour has been restored. If indeed it has, I may consider buying IWD:EE, but that's a lot of ifs

[Yovaneth]

I'd also point out that the spawn system in BG:OE was shafted from the day of release. So much so that most modders scripted spawns instead of trying to get the inbuilt system to work.

 

As for Firewine Bridge: I also agree that the original spawning rate was a serious bug. It was nearly impossible to complete it without cheesing the game by going outside to sleep.

 

-Y-

[Erg]

I'd also point out that the spawn system in BG:OE was shafted from the day of release. So much so that most modders scripted spawns instead of trying to get the inbuilt system to work.

 

If by BG:OE you mean Original Edition, i.e. vanilla BG1, that's not entirely true. It is true for BGT and/or Tutu, i.e. attempts to reproduce the BG1 spawning system in the BG2 engine.

 

As for Firewine Bridge: I also agree that the original spawning rate was a serious bug. It was nearly impossible to complete it without cheesing the game by going outside to sleep.

 

I don't think that the spawning rate in the original Firewine Ruins was due to a bug. It was hard, but IMO by design. In fact, the spawning rate in normal areas was much lower. The fact that just few areas had higher respawn rates IMO confirms that it was intentional.

 

I've managed to explore those Ruins without cheesy tactics in my first playthrough, almost 15 years ago, when I wasn't an experienced player yet. It has been difficult, but very rewarding in the end

 

The Firewine Ruins in BG:EE are like the "Story Mode" in IWD:EE, i.e. no challenge at all