17 replies to this topic

[Kai of Candlekeep]

As the title suggests, I'm currently in the process of expanding the NPC romances included with BG:EE and BG2:EE.  I already have some solid ideas in place and the writing process is quite far along already, but I also started this thread in the hopes of getting a pulse for what the community is expecting and/or wanting to see.

 

Please post ideas here so I can get a little feel for what the community as a whole wants.  Thanks for your interest!

[Kulyok]

Best of luck with your project. I'd really like as many new mods for EE/non-ee NPCs adding new content as possible - banter packs, flirts, expansion modules, romances, friendships, and so on.

 

Here's a small list of my thoughts:

- any player-initiated dialogue = an optional component for compatibility reasons.

- as few (reddens slightly, blushes strongly, and coughs innocently) in normal speech as possible. When it's not about sex. (Because when it's about sex, descriptive is good).

- ToB+SoA releases rock more than SoA releases(where's Keto ToB, huh?)

- romances are great, but "If you wanna be my lover, you got to get with my friends!" - friendship paths are awesome, especially long ones(~every 45 minutes, about 30 conversations - sounds great. Maybe less - 20, or even 15. Still great).

- for romances, any pregnancy paths should strictly be optional(and honestly? preferably not existing at all. Especially if the baby's named Quayle. I mean, I get to the games to _avoid_ this stuff. And, yep, I absolutely mean the epilogue, too).

- evil NPCs honestly stay evil. Like, no picking flowers and prancing around, happy to suddenly be Chaotic Good. Redemption mods and redemption paths are great, but not if it kills the main, non-redemption path.

 

That's probably all I can think of at the moment. Sounds terrible, huh?

Edited by Kulyok, 14 August 2014 - 05:55 AM.

[Kai of Candlekeep]

Actually I love the ideas, but very intimidating because Xan is one of the most detailed and extensively written NPCs out there! 

 

And yes.... evil NPCs stay evil.  The love/sex scenes will also have a darker tinge to it for the evil NPCs     No alignment changes.   I wanted to make the evil romances (Dorn, especially, and Hexxat) very uncomfortable and awkward for a "good" PC.  Along the same note, I'm trying to write PIDs which are in character with evil PC's as well.  On the flip side of this, the "good" romance (Rasaad) will almost have you rolling your eyes if you're an evil PC

 

Kulyok do you have access to the workroom?  If not, I have to ask Kaeloree to give you access, because I would love for you to preview the LT's and stuff before it becomes public.  I would love to get some feedback from you!

 

http://www.shsforums...ance-expansion/

Edited by Kai of Candlekeep, 14 August 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Kulyok]

Hi! I don't have the access(yet? ), but I'd certainly love to read the stuff - I'm curious!

 

I do think, though, that my opinion shouldn't matter in the end(unless fifty people say the same thing, but even then, if you're sure, then your opinion matters more - you're the author). I mean, there's you and the world, and together you're writing your story, and other people are just that - readers. Your(general "you", that includes me) goal would be to write a good story for yourself first and foremost, to stay true to yourself, not to those people who are reading. Um. But that's just me.

[Kai of Candlekeep]

I've asked Liam to grant you access to the workroom.  Your opinion and Jastey's matter a lot to me, first and foremost because I respect you both a lot and you have both written fantastic mods that appeal to a lot of people.  The main goal I have for this mod is to satisfy my own need for a good story + romance as well as more in-party banter, but also to add enjoyment for as many people as possible.  Hopefully with your feedback I can do just that.  

[Zoya]

I'm so glad to see this mod is going strong! So exciting.

What I really love in NPC mods is that they give the player a new way to roleplay. Obviously it's so much better if there are many dialogue options. They don't really have to lead to some branching conversations that differ with every answer: it's the ability to choose and stay in character I find so endearing. Being able to be curt or sarcastic or poetic or shy is so much better than just yes/no/I dunno.

I applaud your choice of inspirations in the modding community, so I guess this comment of mine might be quite obvious Good luck again and thank you one more time!

[555dm]

this is some good news!

 

I think Kulyok summed it up nicely and i think the most important thing is to bring the new content on the level of the pre-existing NPC's, meaning:

- bg:ee should probably get less attention, but i will not argue additions

- SOA+TOB definitely need number of lovetalks equal (or greater) to existing romanceble npc's.

- coding Bodhi abduction if possible, makes the fight harder and more invested and offers opportunity for nice extra dialogue upon resurrection. Current "too powerful to be kidnapped" just seems... cheap. If nothing else, a talk devoted to Bodhi would be nice.

- interjections where they make sense. I would VERY much like this. Especially in TOB and Watcher's Keep.

- i completely agree about descriptive text being immersion breaking (except in special circumstances) in otherwise dialogue based game

 

on a more specific level:

- i'd love to see some deeper connection between dorn and evil pc. i think caring and trusting (which seems to be dorn's issue) could be great parralel path to power and lust arc already present. maybe even expanding a bit upon freedom vs. bound by service bit? In any case, i do not believe caring and trusting (in short, loving) makes somebody less evil. far from it, even greater atrocities can be commited with mutual support. in the least, i'd love to see an outcome not neccesarilly resulting in killing each other.

- staying true to one's alignment should be priority but i would like to see some paths or talks considering a more neutral PC ready to tolerate evil or good NPC without them breaking up

- i'd love to have removed gender checks. I do not know how much hassle it would be to write gender-neutral dialogue.

 

in general, i would be careful not to go over the top. i realize this is d&d and characters are already cheesy, but i think no new quests are necessary as well as no further accentuation of the established personalities. for example; does neera alwasy have to be quirky and unpredictable, or dorn power-hungry, or rasaad burdened by faith and hexxat by vampirism and duty? Can we catch thzem "off guard", so to speak? Perhaps some bacstory, opinions on the world, philosopy of alignment and planes, plans for the future etc. options are many

 

well all these are just my opinions and suggestions, in the end the vision and mod are yours and i look forward to them. if you need testers or help, i'm available. best of luck!

[Kai of Candlekeep]

The fundamental premise I have for this expansion mod is this:

 

Dorn - in BG:EE you don't really learn too much about him aside from the fact that he was a mercenary and that he has done some really reprehensible things.  He doesn't trust you enough in BG;EE to really expand on his history, and even if you have a romance with him, it's based more on physical attraction and he will not try to connect with you emotionally in BG;EE.    In BG2:EE, he already has a history with you, so to speak, so the friendship/romance can go a little deeper and he may even trust you enough to tell you things about his past such as what happened to his mother, about his "patron", etc.   In the original SoA campaign, I struggled a lot with the idea of betraying his patron and losing his blackguard powers --- I want to find a better way to implement this, because his stats as a plain fighter are so sub-par compared to Sarevok and other "pure fighters".  I haven't decided exactly what to do about this yet, but it's definitely something I want to address.   Regardless of whether he remains a blackguard or not, Dorn is and will stay an evil NPC, there will be no last-minute alignment changes or anything of that sort.  The romance is meant to be un-apologetically raw sexual attraction and un-sentimental.  Don't expect him to give you flowers or rub your feet.  That's just not going to happen.

 

Rasaad - we'll discuss him in depth in a later post, but for now, my plan is to make him a "tortured" man, eaten up by guilt over what happened to his brother and torn between duty and love.  More on that later.  Rasaad may have issues romancing an evil PC, but anything is possible.  Maybe.  I don't really know why an evil PC would want to be with Rasaad, anyway.  If I was an evil pc, I would want to strangle him!

 

Hexxat - she's not in BG:EE (instead, I will be expanding the Baeloth character) but the romance in SoA will be expanded, as well as the relationship with Cabrina, etc. Hexxat will be romanceable by both males and females.  The romance path will draw a lot of inspiration from classic "vampire lore" as far as the sexual content, etc.  Not for the squeamish.  Once again, Hexxat will not change her alignment, regardless of any choices you make or conversations you have.  The romance/friendship is designed to be morally ambiguous, so both a good and an evil pc can romance her without problems, but as I said... it's not for the squeamish.

 

Neera - there will be no BG:EE portion for Neera since Kaeloree already wrote a fantastic expansion.  I will only continue what he started in the SoA portion, unless he decides that he wants to write it himself. 

 

As you can tell, Kael'oree's work in the Neera expansion is a huge influence on what I'm doing for the other BG:EE npc's.

Edited by Kai of Candlekeep, 16 August 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[555dm]

Well, i can do nothing but approve.

Also, i'm intrigued by dorn not losing powers... Did you want to change his class to fighter? Maybe cleric? Become worshipper of some ideal or PC, this retaining blackguard powers?
Btw, i always thought PC could influence dorns alignment on lawful/chaotic scale. I agree he is beyond redemtiom but he seems open to that kind of influence. Maybe that adds some flavor to later talks.

And i hope to see some new epilogues also

[SapphireIce101]

Personally, I'm against making Hexxat bisexual, mostly because there aren't enough lesbians (i.e. Chloe, Valerie(not out for BG2 yet), Sarah, and Auren (Only Nalia.).), but if you can make her a convincing bisexual then I really won't mind it as much. As for making Hexxat fit with more classic vampire lore. I'm totally for that, since a lot of people seem to compare Hexxat to Twilight characters.

[Sergio]

I'm really really curious how you are going to handle Dorn's betrayal to his patron.

[Kai of Candlekeep]

Personally, I'm against making Hexxat bisexual, mostly because there aren't enough lesbians (i.e. Chloe, Valerie(not out for BG2 yet), Sarah, and Auren (Only Nalia.).), but if you can make her a convincing bisexual then I really won't mind it as much. As for making Hexxat fit with more classic vampire lore. I'm totally for that, since a lot of people seem to compare Hexxat to Twilight characters.

 

My inspiration is based more on Anne Rice's vampires like "Interview With The Vampire", "The Vampire Lestat", "Queen of the Damned" etc.  If you've read any of those books (or even watched one of the movies) you will note that vampires love whom they love and want whom they want: gender is inconsequential when it comes to satisfying their desires and their needs.  Anne Rice's vampires are portrayed as beautiful, elegant, erotic and largely hedonistic creatures.  This is how I see Hexxat in my head -- beautiful and exotic, yet hungry and alone.

Edited by Kai of Candlekeep, 18 August 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[SapphireIce101]

I haven't read the books or watched any of those movies, but I totally understand it now.

[555dm]

btw, here are few links from beamdog's forum that could come in handy (in case you're missed them)

 

http://forum.baldurs...perspective-1-6

 

http://forum.baldurs...perspective-2-6

[Sergio]

any new?

[Zoya]

Yeah, I'm curious too. Really hope this is still in progress.

[555dm]

me too. i'd like to see this mod come to fruition especially with the patch 1.3 around the corner (which adds the posibility of contionuing the variables from bg:ee to b2:ee) and seemingly no intention from beamdog to further expand their npc's.

 

i really, really hope to see some news and maybe a release soon!

[aniagie]

I like the idea, I'm wain for it!