74 replies to this topic

[dorotea]

Hi folks - I decided it might be amusing to collect a public opinion on a few characters the Redemption mod deals with. I will start with queen Ellesime and proceed with others later on.

[Laufey]

Hi folks - I decided it might be amusing to collect a public opinion on a few characters the Redemption mod deals with. I will start with queen Ellesime and proceed with others later on.

Heh, actually none of those really fits my opinion of her...I think it's a bit more complex. I guess I'll refrain from voting.

[Ajnos]

Heh, actually none of those really fits my opinion of her...I think it's a bit more complex. I guess I'll refrain from voting.

Hm. I can't find a choice I really like either. I must copy Laufrey and refrain. Ooh, but if None of the Above was a choice I'd pick that one.

[dorotea]

Hey - I modified the poll slightly. By the way - if you still cannot find the answer to fit your opinion - please express it here in this thread. It will be very helpful, as the Redemption mod deals with Ellesime - Irenicus personal story as well as with Irenicus - PC relationship.

[Laufey]

Hey - I modified the poll slightly. By the way - if you still cannot find the answer to fit your opinion - please express it here in this thread. It will be very helpful, as the Redemption mod deals with Ellesime - Irenicus personal story as well as with Irenicus - PC relationship.

I'll be happy to express my opinon to you privately - but not here. I'd rather not be dragged into another endless debate. Mail me if you like, and we can chat about it though.

[Ajnos]

Briefly. While my id is amused and tempted by the kill and loot choice, I think I'd pick these two as the closest to what I think. Sorta.

Tortured soul who did something she regretted deeply
I don't know that she's tortured, but I do think she has regrets.

A woman deeply in love who was betrayed by her lover
I think she was betrayed by Irenicus, like all the elves were betrayed by him when he nearly killed them all in his first attempt to use the Tree of Life for his own purposes. The fact that they were lovers, while tragic, is no worse than what he did to everyone else, no matter how much it hurt her personally. That said, I can't say that I ever thought she was all that in love with him in the first place. It's been awhile since I've done more than skim those dialogues, so I can't say why I have that impression, but I do.

Edited by Ajnos, 03 December 2003 - 03:12 PM.

[Seifer]

Whilst I'm ususally a paragon of virtue and restraint, I say kill her and loot the body. Since she is the only other one with a diety in her veins that doesn't consist Bhall, give the liberals what they want, sexual equality and all...

LOL

[Caedwyr]

I chose None of the above, its more complicated...

I think the essence of what she had done to Jon, was based on over-estimating Jon's wisdom and ability to think things through. She believed that Jon's punishment would make him realize what he had done and the wrongness of it. She expected him to recognize that by not draining him of his power, or permanantely destroying him, she was letting Jon know that he could be forgiven and healed if he asked, and showed that he had changed. Had she wanted Jon truely destroyed or broken, his powers as a mage would have been stripped from him. Also, from what I understand it has been many years since Jon was punished, and the decay of his emotions and self occured slowly over this time period. I don't believe that Ellesime expected Jon to turn his back on her so completely, believing that the bond between the two of them was strong enough for Jon to have some faith/love for her even after his punishment.

I could probably go on a lot longer, but that's the essence of my beliefs regarding Jon's punishment and Ellesime.

[SapphireDragon]

I also choose none of the above. Why not add a medium response? like dont mind her or something

[Lord E]

Hi folks - I decided it might be amusing to collect a public opinion on a few characters the Redemption mod deals with. I will start with queen Ellesime and proceed with others later on.

Heh, actually none of those really fits my opinion of her...I think it's a bit more complex. I guess I'll refrain from voting.

Heh, I voted the 'Heartless Bitch' one but I don't really think she deserves a slow and painful death - no-one does. I think she deserves to be stripped of her smug delusions of righteousness.

[Lord E]

Hey - I modified the poll slightly. By the way - if you still cannot find the answer to fit your opinion - please express it here in this thread. It will be very helpful, as the Redemption mod deals with Ellesime - Irenicus personal story as well as with Irenicus - PC relationship.

I'll be happy to express my opinon to you privately - but not here. I'd rather not be dragged into another endless debate. Mail me if you like, and we can chat about it though.

Oh yes - same here. I have had this discussion too many times and nothing whatsoever can ever convince me that it is in any way right to take someone's soul and that it is not hypocritical to do so and claim to have acted out of mercy and love.

So, I won't bother to discuss the above ideas here. However, if Dorotea wants my insights, I will discuss them in private mail.

[dorotea]

I know, I did not need to comment since I ticked off one of the existing options, but it would have been sad if the thread ended up already.

No, no 'tis perfectly fine to comment. It is also remarkable that there is no preferences so far one way or another. So, Ellesime is an enigma - that is what you people are trying to tell me? Please vote.

By the way - I did not vote so far neither I plan to, but I guess my imagination had failed me when making this poll... since so many chose none of the above.

[Laufey]

I know, I did not need to comment since I ticked off one of the existing options, but it would have been sad if the thread ended up already.

No, no 'tis perfectly fine to comment. It is also remarkable that there is no preferences so far one way or another. So, Ellesime is an enigma - that is what you people are trying to tell me? Please vote.

By the way - I did not vote so far neither I plan to, but I guess my imagination had failed me when making this poll... since so many chose none of the above.

I think she is a complex character who can be interpreted in different ways - and that is why you have no clear preferences. I'll mail you my impression - I'm in a chatty mood anyway, and don't want to go to bed just yet.

[Hendryk]

I think Wisdom involves, among other things, the capacity to judge the probable results of one's own actions. In this sense, she clearly failed to be wise, judging Irenicus by love and hope rather than wisely, from the perspective of the welfare of Suldanesselar.

"Fool me once, your fault. Fool me twice, my fault."

[Helseth]

Some of the choices do come close, but here is my opinion: Responsible Stateperson.
Basically, I see Ellesime as a queen first and foremost. Her first priority is an elven community. She has to do what she thinks is right *for Suldanesselar*, however horrible or distasteful personally. (Of course, her plan to punish/redeem Joneleth proved to be a terrible mistake, but that's not the point.) I never saw romance as a major/defining part of her life; talking with Irenicus, she uses mostly past sence.
Now that I think of it, not so unlike Galadriel.
Of course, it all is just my - not even an opinion, more of a feeling. Ellesime speaks little in-game, and anyway, where're many different ways to hear and interpret her words.
Oh, and she does look hot, too!

[Hendryk]

(Of course, her plan to punish/redeem Joneleth proved to be a terrible mistake, but that's not the point.)

Indeed? I should have thought that consideration of preserving Suldanesselar into the future would have been the sole priority for wise statesmanship. The disastrous situation of her realm at the time of the PC's arrival demonstrates an appalling failure of foresight by Ellesime; hence, it was most unwise.

[Helseth]

(Of course, her plan to punish/redeem Joneleth proved to be a terrible mistake, but that's not the point.)

Indeed? I should have thought that consideration of preserving Suldanesselar into the future would have been the sole priority for wise statesmanship.

Maybe "sole" is a bit too strong a word? Some prices for survival elves would probably never pay. But main priority -- yes, I think so.

The disastrous situation of her realm at the time of the PC's arrival demonstrates an appalling failure of foresight by Ellesime; hence, it was most unwise.

In hindsight -- yes, it certainly was. Who knows what knowledge of such things she had at the time of decision? Irenicus hadn't lost his emotions at once, so he at least could repent. Theoretically.

[dorotea]

That however does not substract from her grace or bravery.

It is amazing how different people can see different personages differently - I for once find Galadriel a complete bitch. But a magnifecent one.