18 replies to this topic

[Vlar]

Dark Horizons, DSotSC and NTotSC *unpowered* and revised
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No files for the moment.. Work in progress

This is a revision of most items and (to a lesser extent) creatures of the aforementioned mods. Also the item descriptions have been updated. The changes are:

Dark Horizons: most items have been altered (much less overpowered), and in many cases fixed, so that proficiencies/exclusion flags are correct, and the descriptions match the effects of the items. Prices for items not sold in stores have been drastically reduced, and prices for those sold in stores have been 'standardized' (on par with standard BG items). Creatures don't give crazy amount of XP anymore, and they don't carry uber-stuff anymore: DH items are still there (toned down), but most non-DH magical items have been replaced by non-magical or made undroppable.

DSotSC: new icons for mage spells and scrolls (no more white scrolls and horrible spellbook icons), priest spells have been 'deactivated' except a couple that have been toned down but are still there (priest spells are automatically gained at level up and I didn't want out-of-contest spells). Minor fixes to items and creatures (much less than with DH), often with lowered prices (so you won't get rich).

NTotSC: minor fixes to items, many more to creatures (less XP, powerful non-unique items made undroppable). NTotSC adds few items by itself, but many creatures had powerful BG2 or DSotSC equipment (not anymore).
 
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Changes to items:

- lowered THAC0 and damage bonus (most are +1, some is +2)
- special effects like slow/stun/kill have been granted a save most of the time, and the effect kicks in only 10-20% of successful hits
- saving throw and AC bonuses generally lowered (most give +1 instead of +2 or +3).
- cutlasses get the scimitar proficiency when using the ninja-to fix (they were moved to short sword, because of S1 animation instead of SC, that has been restored)
- missile weapons and ammos can't be used by kensai/cavalier, corrected flags for armors, and weapons that monk can't use
- prices for items not sold in stores have been reduced, and prices for those sold in stores have been 'standardized' (on par with standard BG items)
- items with magical abilities often recharge after rest (1/day), but are generally less powerful
 
Changes to creatures:

- less XP (depending on level and class, mages still give lots of XP)
- some creatures have higher level (I didn't modify HPs, but you can use BG2 Tweaks 'max HPs for everybody' component)
- non-unique DH magical items often replaced by non-magical items, or made undroppable
- DH extra healing potions replaced by BG2 ones
- lower amounts of magical ammos (arrows of dispelling/detonation etc) and potions (not always)
 
Examples:

Spoiler

Mystra's Cloak was:

Armor Class: +3 bonus
Saving Throw: +2 bonus
Special: Protection from Undead
(and a 'hidden' vocalize effect)
 
Now is:
 
Armor Class:  +2 bonus
Saving Throw: +1 bonus
Special: Negative Plane Protection
 
Doufas' Sabre (that you can get very early south of Beregost) was:
 
Damage: 1D8 +3 (+1D4 Magical damage)
THACO: +2 bonus
Special:
 +2 attacks
 +Holds opponent unless save
Not Usable By:
 Druid
 Cleric
 
Now is:
 
Damage: 1D6 +1 (+2 Magical damage)
THACO: +1 bonus
Special: 20% holds opponent for 1 round, unless save
Usable By:
 Thief (single, multi and dual class)
 Bard

 
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Some of the new DSotSC spell/scroll icons: (spellbook icons are the same, without scroll)
 


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General changes to creatures and SCS: many spellcasters have their own scripts, especially in DH: a pity that these override SCS scripts, and opponents that are supposed to be challenging are butchered in a matter of seconds. There is a folder SCS-only where these spellcasters have been stripped of their custom scripts, so that they will use SCS instead. Creature levels have been also adjusted. Use this only if you want a challenge, and if you use SCS with precasting mode active.
 
 
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This mod and BP-Balancer: they can be used together, but you should not use the DSotSC/NTotSC components (they work differently). This 'revision' doesn't remove any item, it only alters them.

Bugs: I can't swear it's bug-free, I've done my best and I'll keep testing it, I revised things many times but especially at first I wasn't totally sure of what I was doing, so there may be leftover bugs. I'll correct them if I find them.
 
A note on PnP Free Action mod: some items in this revision give web/grease immunity, but unfortunately this mod changes them into full free action items. Mod's forum

Edited by Vlar, 02 June 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[The Imp]

Those archives are failures... as you need to extract them between the BWS's final extraction and its install phase, and the final result is still questionable, as the files have no --change-log references.
What you should do is make a proper weidu.exe mod that actually patches the .cre files, and install the mods before the SCS.
The orc mage:

BACKUP ~customfolder/backup~
AUTHOR ~Vlar @SHSforums~
VERSION ~beta 1~

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

BEGIN ~Fix the Orc mage~  
COPY_EXISTING ~orc04.cre~ ~override~
WRITE_BYTE 0x234 ~8~ //creature level set to be 8 

Item editing:

COPY_EXISTING ~.itm~ ~override~ //file name
SAY NAME1 ~Mace~
SAY NAME2 ~Mace + 2: 'Krotan's Skullcrusher'~ //exact name
SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC ~unidentified describtion~
SAY DESC ~identified describtion~ 
WRITE_length ~startbyte~ ~setvalue~

Where the lenght is BYTE if the table says 1, SHORT is the table says 2, LONG is if the table says 4, and ASCII if the table says 8.

Edited by The Imp, 27 May 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Vlar]

Yes I totally forgot about that regarding the orc mage, the other files should work though (I installed them a couple of times already in a BWS installation), they are the original files altered in NI, they aren't the ones coming from an already installed game, so string references work. I didn't try the altered Fixpack items (it's still installing as I write) but I don't think anything bad should happen. I don't know how to make a weidu package, and how to patch things with it, is there a tutorial somewhere? Thanks

 

About the change-log thing, these files don't go in override, they overwrite the mod (and Fixpack) files before they are actually installed, so they show up in the change-log as belonging to those mods.

Edited by Vlar, 27 May 2014 - 03:43 AM.

[The Imp]

Just tell me what file needs what changed... I'll code it for you.. at least I can(so things outside script editing).
So we can make this; a home brew BP-balancer. Also one should take into account what the other mods do... but the thing in this is, as you have a BWS install so you should have them already.

About the change-log thing, these files don't go in override, they overwrite the mod (and Fixpack) files before they are actually installed, so they show up in the change-log as belonging to those mods.

Well see, the fact that you alter the mods content without informing anyone about it is bad. When the BWP does this, it adds an altered version tag to the mod. And that should shows up in the --change-logs, if done correctly.

Edited by The Imp, 27 May 2014 - 04:12 AM.

[Vlar]

They are all of the CRE and ITM files contained in the archives, it's a lot of work.. really that's too much asking you to do that if there's not a guide I'll check some mods and try to make one. Weren't it be simpler to make weidu copy the files in override after the FixPack and make a backup of the files it replaces, instead of editing bytes and so on? There are more than 400 items and more than 100 CRE.

[The Imp]

They are all of the CRE and ITM files contained in the archives, it's a lot of work.. really that's too much asking you to do that if there's not a guide I'll check some mods and try to make one. Weren't it be simpler to make weidu copy the files in override after the FixPack and make a backup of the files it replaces, instead of editing bytes and so on? There are more than 400 items and more than 100 CRE.

And possibly break the consistency with the 99 other item changing mods... well yeah. Patching is better, not easier.

The .ITM -file reference, and .CRE -file reference.

[Vlar]

Ok thanks I'll check those pages and try to do something.

[Solaufein]

I sure the hell didn't give any permission for my mod to be altered. If I wanted to tone it down, I would do it myself.

[Lollorian]

If you've got some documentation about your changes, I'd love a look - I'm interested in the stuff you fixed

[Vlar]

Sorry I have some connection problem, I can't even take the files down right now.

@Solaufein: I know I didn't ask for permission, I didn't think it was needed, there are already mods that do similar things for various mods (BP-Balancer for example) or try to fix issues with items and other mod stuff (Turambar's maybe). What I did was made for the people who don't like overpowered items but still want to play the mod for extra challenges and adventures, I didn't see anything wrong with that but if you don't want I'll stop doing it. I just tell you that in your mod there are still a lot of broken items (wrong exclusion flags, 'hidden' weapon abilities such as instakill that aren't documented in the item descriptions, items with 4-5 extra attacks that aren't mentioned in the descriptions, or just abilities that differ from the descriptions) so maybe you want to take a close look to all item and fix what is wrong.

@Lollorian the 'documentation' is in the .tra files (item descriptions), you can compare them with the original ones, they should be 98% accurate (unless I messed up something), once my connection is stable again I can make a more precise list more if you need.

[Creepin]

Dark Horizons, DSotSC and NTotSC *unpowered* and revised

That's great idea Vlar, thanks! It would be better yet if there will be proper patching and changelog attached, this way it could be, hopefully, incorporated into BWP. Also, if you'll be able to keep "fixing" component of your mod separated from "nerfing" component, I would be ever so happy!

I especially liked solution for orc mage case, I've always got to Ctrl-Y these buggers, they're too much as a random encounter for 7th level party

I sure the hell didn't give any permission for my mod to be altered. If I wanted to tone it down, I would do it myself.

That much is obvious. But what if other people want to tone it down?

Edited by Creepin, 27 May 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[The Imp]

I sure the hell didn't give any permission for my mod to be altered. If I wanted to tone it down, I would do it myself.

... But what if other people want to tone it down?
 

It's not simply that the encounter is hard from the single mod, but as the SCS revises the characters spell book which it's simply based on the characters level... and the fact that the orc04.cre being a vanilla 12th level BG2 creature makes the 7th level party encounter a bit too much to content with, when the AI pre-casts 5th and 6th level spells.
This adjustment is not simply setting it lower, it's more of "tuning the difficulty" to more appropriate level, when considering the other pars of the game.

Edited by The Imp, 27 May 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Vlar]

I wrote some more infos about the changes I made. I Solaufein gives me the permission, I'll keep working on it and try to make a weidu patch, otherwise I'll remove the files. Thanks

[Cahir]

To tell the truth, I could understand Solaufein's frustration to some degree. It would be a proper thing to at least let him know, that someone is planning to alter his creations. I'm sure he would not mind it, if he knows about it. 

As I understand Solaufein tends to create mods with pretty intense stuff - be it strong enemies or powerful (if not overpowered) items or both - but he probably do it on purpose. I know some people complains about it (myself included), but I understand the need of sheer destruction in some mods. Some players likes it. Probably it could be a good idea to implant a toned down option into these mods, but I think Solaufein should be at least informed of it in advance if he does not plan to do it himself.

[Vlar]

Anyway I didn't want to make anybody angry, especially Solaufein since the mod (DH) is his own, so I'm still waiting for his permission. I hope he'll understand that this is to please a certain (big I think) share of players who would like to play the mod without the original game becoming too easy, there would be surely more players that will play the mod (that I like, otherwise I wouldn't have started this). If I didn't inform him it was because:

 

1. there are other mods that do similar things

2. I didn't want to ask and maybe have a refusal since I did a lot of stuff already, so he could decide when the thing was done. If he's jealous of his mod I understand, but he should think about all the people that avoided it (for several reasons) until now and now could play it. This doesn't concern only DH, also other mods anyway.

 

Also he should understand that in a megamod installation, where you gain a lot of experience, if there isn't a way to reduce XP and power of the items, not only the original storyline becomes easy, but the mods too. With godly equipment and lots of XP, DH 'challenges' aren't challenging anymore. Only if you tone down mods and the XP they give you can have some challenge left.

That's all.

[The Imp]

...

Valid points... but maybe this should be done in the DH's CoM forums, or in the PM section in there, and he could also have his say on what's been done, also it wouldn't hurt him to add in an alternative component, say "SCS compilation of the Dark Horizon challenges". Meaning that it's build for SCS to tweak and compile the actual files.

Like said, I can help you to code the stuff... I just have to know each change and go from there.

Edited by The Imp, 28 May 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Vlar]

Valid points... but maybe this should be done in the DH's CoM forums, or in the PM section in there, and he could also have his say on what's been done, also it wouldn't hurt him to add in an alternative component, say "SCS compilation of the Dark Horizon challenges". Meaning that it's build for SCS to tweak and compile the actual files.

Like said, I can help you to code the stuff... I just have to know each change and go from there.

 

Thanks for the help proposal, since I don't know anything about weidu stuff. You told me that patching is better than overwriting and it's ok, but it's also a lot more work, because especially DH items need also to be fixed at various levels. I still think that an overwrite just after DH/DSotSC/NTotSC, before other mods can change them, is the simplest solution and I don't understand what could go wrong, then the item description could be patched over the new file. But I don't have a clear picture of what weidu does so I'll send you a list of all the changes in all items (it will take some time, I'll have to check each item, the original descriptions often aren't truthful, there's a lot of 'undocumented' stuff). Creatures should be easier to patch so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

About Solaufein, I'll send him a PM in his place, if he doesn't answer here anymore.

Edited by Vlar, 29 May 2014 - 02:49 AM.

[Vlar]

Solaufein has shown that he isn't enthusiastic about me touching his files, so I'll remove the links. All this will be (hopefully soon) made via weidu, patching files in a similar way to what BP-Balancer does to handle these things, to avoid complaints of any sort.