5 replies to this topic

[asterix404]

So this is an old topic and I have read many things about this but... I am trying to avert an impossible game where impossible is not defined in terms of difficulty but if it is actually possible to win. I have a huge problem with the SCS component where you have all your stuff taken in the Gauntlet, for example, because you have to face greater mummies and a Rashka with a +2 spear. You die. It isn't really all that fun. Even most summons can't hit a greater mummy and how about we don't assume that I have a level 18+ sorcerer and a priest that can cast HLAs. 

 

To this extent I am worried about tactics. I have 0 problem crtl-Ying most fights but I don't always want to do that. I was thinking about which components to install assuming full pre-battle casting and SR. Improved Illich is out. There is no way I could beat a lvl 22 priest alone, in +2 full plate with a group of level 8 critters when the priest has excellent AI, pre-battle casting and able to summon divas and gate in demons. I don't have +3 weapons or anything that can take down shield of acorns or spell reflection so basically this fight is a wash. It cannot be won unless you cheat like mad. Perhaps that is how people beat it but I have been playing for years and I stare at this as impossible. It is locking you in a room with monsters with 100% magic resistance and immune to +2 weapons and below and giving you non magical weapons and a bit of rest. 

 

I am concerned about other aspects like this. Sure, tactics cheats. I don't even have a problem with that but which are the better components I should install and which are the ones I shouldn't?

 

Thanks!

[kreso]

Things I avoid from SCS:

 

Faster Bears

Item taking in Spellhold

Always spawn toughest spawns in dungeons

Make party members less likely to die permanently

Reduced rep. increase

Yeslik uses axes

Allow Cowled wizards to detect underground spellcasting

Increase prices for magic licence and Gaelan Bayle

WK accesible between SoA-ToB

Recover lost items from Hell

Remove unrealistical items from areas

Convinient ammo

Delay bonus merchant arrival

Treat HLAs as innates

EoU party AI

Improved deployment for assassins

Kobold upgrade

Relocated Bounty hunters

Make starting dungeon harder

Resilient trolls

 

 

Things I avoid from Tactics:

Everything apart Imp.Ilych and Sahaugin.

[asterix404]

Oh that is interesting. I love most of everything you listed except for

 

Item taking in Spellhold (impossible as mentioned before)

WK accesible between SoA-ToB (It didn't work and broke my install)

Delay bonus merchant arrival (Robe of Vecna on all spell casters is one of my few cheats because it makes the game much more playable)

Treat HLAs as innates (A terrible idea and the game was never designed with this in mind. Also, I don't think it applies to casters which makes litch fights impossible)

Make starting dungeon harder (No resting is impossible. The game never was meant for this, even on a challenge.)

(No resting in illithid city) (No resting is impossible. The game never was meant for this, even on a challenge.)

 

 

So if you have maximum spell casters precasting and one of them is a level 22 priest and a level 16 mage and a few fighters and you happen to have a +2 two handed sword, a non-magical quarter staff (+1 turned to "master"), an amulet which you get an additional +2 spell, and a bounty hunter who can't set traps.... and you go against a priest which casts mirror image, spell reflection, globe of blades, and shield of acorns, 10' protection from evil and gate, then summon diva... yea. I don't see how that is possible, even theoretically. You don't have a way to hit the demons, the diva casts imp. haste with a vorporal sword and more hit-points... this fight cannot be done. If you can do it, you are doing something wrong. It shouldn't be possible for a band of level 8-9's with really crappy gear to take out a gated demon let alone a level 22 amped up priest with globe of blades and a -2 to -5 AC. You die and then you reload and die again and repeat. They say to pick them off 1 by 1 but you don't have equipment to even hit a gate so really, all they need to do is summon one and you die over and over and over. This is what I am really trying to avoid. Like this is really ridiculous. I almost want to try the Small Teeth Pass but I will MoveToArea or cast time stop. Still though, I am really trying hard to avoid cheese. 

BTW, one of my favorite part of SCS is increasing level dependent mobs to maximum level (including liches). With SR, liches become really straightforward once you have two wizards at level 16 and even easier with 2 at level 18. They are almost totally impossible up until that point though. 

[kreso]

I haven't tried Ilych+SCS but if Zhivago benefits from improved AI......   What I did (Tactics only) was always the same tactic - Jaheira and Imoen are both crucial here. Jaheira must succeed in using Charm Person or Mammal and Imoen must disrupt Deva summoning. Try Nymph summons from Jaheira, but if Zhivago uses Shield of Archons and uses Gate as part of pre-buff sequence, you're dead. You don't survive Gate with Sword of Chaos. You could still disrupt Zhivago with a well-placed Fireball, but not his pre-buff sequence.

 

Tactics Small Teeth Pass.......   I never managed to finish this on Core difficulty. Getting hit by 200 damage as soon as I enter the area isn't funny.

Edited by kreso, 10 February 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[asterix404]

See, for the Small Teeth Pass, I am wondering if I can cast time stop with my sorcerer the second I enter. That way I get half or more or my buffs up including fire, imp haste, etc. If I can't... I just move to area fully prebuffed with my level 20 crew and go to town. Perhaps do WK first. Of course, that assumes that the fireball is actually made out of fire as oppose to just straight magic which would annihilate any party that dared walk up to it. See.... I am curious about what the creator had in mind when they allowed a dragon to blast you, from far off screen no less, the second you enter and every few seconds after that. This might also be one area which I remove eventually but I really don't understand how anyone could actually beat that. It sounds impossible, just on the face. Being blasted repeatedly, non-stop, every few seconds, for 200+ AOE damage from a critter off screen isn't fun and I mean that it really isn't fun. It isn't a challenge you can overcome, you just die. This is what I am trying to avoid. They might as well just steal all of my stuff and lock me a room filled with liches or greater mummies. 

 

I will say though. The SCS+Tactics+SR+IR+More weapons for cromwell has really changed the game for me. Characters become far more important. Classes become much more interesting. Mutli-class is filled with almost unlimited possibilities. Chapter two is really a rush to get gold to get back Imoen and a ton of stuff has to wait until ch6. If your sorcerers are not level 16 by the time you get to drow city, good luck going against that lich. I love it because it reawakened a very good game and casts everything in a new light or refreshens it. I want to continue to bask in this glow and not be slammed by chease. 

Edited by asterix404, 11 February 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Pol]

Belatedly reading this topic, I played with Imp Ilyich + SCS as part of my current game (which is "Ironman", i.e. no reloads), Zhivago the priest doesn't benefit from SCS AI, so he's easy to interrupt with magic missiles and acid arrows because he has no prebuffs. Even so, there's always like about a 10% chance for a priest to finish casting inspite of taking damage... if this happens just run away to the second level before the Deva finishes gating in (easier to use the portal by the cells).

 

Generally it's best to fight Zhivago + Karamazov last as they're hard to separate and can't be kited because they don't rely on melee, the others can safely be lured out one at a time if you're hasted.

 

However, the duergar party members who spawn alongside duergar proletariats (in place of goblins) ARE improved by SCS smarter mages, they have minor globes of invulnerability which are hard for a starting level party to deal with and also cast confusion or emotion and similar, there's no way to protect yourself against mind affecting stuff if you don't have a berserker or barbarian. And there's like 5 of the buggers, though some can be avoided with stealth or invisibility...

 

Also you'll need the Invis-10-foot radius spell (either as a known spell, or from a fairy dragon familiar) if you want to be able to rest safely, as more duergar party members + proles spawn first after 12 hours and every few hours after that.

 

I doubt SCS + Imp Ilyich is a good idea with a party of just bioware NPCs... Jaheira is certainly not at her best this early in the game and Yoshimo is p. useless, much as I like his character, while Minsc is about a match for a single duergar proletariat, of which there a like a dozen...

 

Spellhold without items isn't so bad if you don't have tougher spawns/enough xp for a lich to spawn as the greater mummies are actually very vulnerable to fire spells. If you get a lich (especially with HLAs for casters) you will indeed need your magical items to beat him reliably.

 

Mind flayer city without rests isn't hard (for me) either, you don't need many spells to deal with mind flayers except Chaotic Commands (lasts for ages) and True Seeing, load up priest with Wondrous Recall spells so they have enough of each. Their ballistic attacks certainly hurt but you should have plenty of healing potions by this stage.

 

Good luck!