12 replies to this topic

[Dark_Ansem]

just how possible could it be to update the enhanced edition games to the 3.5 or NEXT set of rules?

AFAIK there has been a 3.5 attempt for either BG or Icewind dale, but I'd like more info on this

[The Imp]

Impossible... well, I think, the closest you come to is the normal BG2 game in the Icewind Gate 2 style and that brings the no joinable party members... thing. Yes, that engine is cheesed as hell... Or perhaps the GemRB. And I know that's a hell of a lot complicated.

Of course if you wish to go and make a better conversion toolkit, you are welcome to try.

Edited by The Imp, 03 January 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Dark_Ansem]

ah, it's a different engine? I was sure it was the same!

[The Imp]

ah, it's a different engine? I was sure it was the same!

Same engine, different evolutions. Commands etc. This allows mass conversions like BG1 to be played in BG2's engine via mods like BGT(-weidu) or Tutu(EasyTutu), but you can't convert them backwards ... unless you change the engine.

 

Of course one can make mods that simulate the effects of the edition rule sets, but that's just simulation, you can never get the engine show your Armor Class going upwards be better than the downwards.

Edited by The Imp, 03 January 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[Dark_Ansem]

what?

[The Imp]

what?

Game Engine. Example, The Unreal Engine... It ran the Unreal game 18 years ago, a version of it runs the Mass Effect 3 and Gears of War 4 games today... it's possible to make either of the engines able to run the first game... but there's no way in the cheese that you can make the first games engine to run the later without adding the stuff that was developed in the middle, or even each others.
 
And no, I did not say the "Impossible" because Weimer failed to convert the BG2 game to the IwD 2 game following others trying to pick it apart in the delta making it half done game with bad features like the said no party joining... but also because the Infinity Engine can never actually simulate any D&D rules completely as the fact is that it's near to a Real Time with Pause -engine(or whatever tick based simultaneous action time), not a turn base system where you get to move the characters on separate turns system closely like in the Temple of Elemental Evil's turn based combat system, or in Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor; again turn based combat.

Yes, this is all game engine stuff.

Edited by The Imp, 03 January 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[Dark_Ansem]

isn't the enhanced edition based on the exact same engine?

[Mike1072]

The BG, IWD, and PST games were all created with the Infinity Engine, but that does not mean they share the same rules.  Each game has a unique set of rules and features. 

 

We do not have access to the games' source code.  The only thing we have access to are the published games.  So, the only way to play through Game A using the rules of Game B is to take all of the content files out of Game A (artwork, areas, sounds, creatures, items, spells, dialogues, scripts, etc.) and place them into Game B.  However, since each game is unique, Game B may not support all of the features used by Game A, so this may require some compromises.  BG1Tutu, BGT, Icewind Gate II, IWD1Tutu, and IWD-in-BG2 are projects that attempt to do this.

 

The only IE game to use the 3rd edition ruleset is IWD2.  If you try to take all of the content out of BG:EE or BGII:EE and place it into IWD2, that will not work.  IWD2 is missing many of the features required by BG2 and it obviously does not include the ones introduced by the enhanced editions.

 

GemRB is the best hope for something like this to be possible with some time and effort.  Since its source code can be edited, it is reasonable to expect someone could create a game using mix-and-matched rulesets (and even create custom rulesets based on other D&D editions or whatever if they really felt like it).

[Dark_Ansem]

I mean the other way round: updating the enhaced editions to 3rd / next rules

[Mike1072]

That's exactly what I responded to.  The underlying rules are so built-in to the games that they can't be changed.  Some projects have appeared to have gotten around this by transplanting the content from one game to another, which is not feasible for the EEs (on the scale you're suggesting).  The only reasonable way to accomplish something like this would be to rebuild the game from source code.  The original source code is not available to the public, but GemRB is an open-source IE emulator whose code is available to the public.

[Dark_Ansem]

but it works for the enhanced editions?

[Mike1072]

GemRB?  GemRB is a recreation of the IE game engine from scratch and probably does not (yet) fully emulate the features used by the enhanced editions.  After having that, you'd still need to develop a way to convert the content to whatever new ruleset you are using (and if that ruleset is not the one used by an existing IE game, you'd need to program the ruleset, too).  What you are asking for is a long way from currently existing but it is possible.

Edited by Mike1072, 04 January 2014 - 05:52 AM.

[Dark_Ansem]

better than nothing I'd say.

unless the enhanced edition developers allow for source code handling.