148 replies to this topic

[smeagolheart]

Is BGT:EE going to be made?

[The Imp]

Add the question mark to the topic title. !!!
Nope, none have volunteered to make it ... from what I have heard, and as Ascension64 has "retired from modding", it seems pretty grim.
Of course Kae'loree has not revealed the Christmas gift list, so it might still be hidden somewhere.

Edited by The Imp, 01 December 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Kaeloree]

Alas, not that I know of! Though a BGT:EE would probably be a lot easier than the original BGT was. 

[-Hurricane-]

More importantly, if we recall the original objective of BGT, it becomes apparent that there simply is no need for a "BGT:EE" mod. The point of BGT was to merge BG1 and BG2 mainly for these two reasons:

1) Playing the BG1 portion of the game using the BG2 engine.
The vast majority of the BGT code deals with this objective. The game assets of BG1+TotSC are imported into BG2 in order to experience this part of the saga using the superior BG2 engine. This also allows players to create a level 1 character under the BG2 ruleset and start the journey with all BG2 rules applying from the getgo. Furthermore, BGT takes care of the bugs in the BG1 storyline. All of this is now covered by BG1:EE.

2) Ensuring continuity between BG1 and BG2.
BGT achieves this by fleshing out the transition to Amn a little bit and by carrying over the eligible NPCs under the appropriate conditions. This is only a very small part of BGT in terms of the size of the mod. Nonetheless, I myself would like to see a mod for BG2:EE that provides this continuity regarding the NPCs if you import a savegame from BG1:EE. However, I think such a mod should not be called "BGT:EE", out of respect for the massive amount of work and gigantic scope of BGT. It would be a small mod, only to carry over the NPCs, but would have nothing else in common with the original BGT-WeiDU. Having said that, I feel that such a functionality should actually be implemented in BG2:EE by default, even though I understand that contractual obligations and game design choices may prevent Beamdog from ever making the saga whole.

[The Imp]

2) Ensuring continuity between BG1 and BG2.
BGT achieves this by fleshing out the transition to Amn a little bit and by carrying over the eligible NPCs under the appropriate conditions. This is only a very small part of BGT in terms of the size of the mod. Nonetheless, I myself would like to see a mod for BG2:EE that provides this continuity regarding the NPCs if you import a savegame from BG1:EE. However, I think such a mod should not be called "BGT:EE", out of respect for the massive amount of work and gigantic scope of BGT. It would be a small mod, only to carry over the NPCs, but would have nothing else in common with the original BGT-WeiDU. Having said that, I feel that such a functionality should actually be implemented in BG2:EE by default, even though I understand that contractual obligations and game design choices may prevent Beamdog from ever making the saga whole.

The current 25 MB's is very tiny amount compared to the final install size of the current giant... when you determine the rule of the size, you need to also set the rule of what makes it large. Download size is very valid one.

The fact that the EE version of the mod would be able to copy (nearly) all the vanilla resources from one game to the other is a good thing. (Notice, I say nearly, as I can't actually speculate the actual facts of the matter, with raw data).

You should also understand that even though Beamdog is obliged to the rules set in the contract, nothing in the world can make us the modders need to oblige to them... ps, there would never have been BGEE if there wasn't BGT or BG1Tutu... or the weimer's Icewind Gate 2.

[-Hurricane-]

the EE version of the mod would be able to copy (nearly) all the vanilla resources from one game to the other

That's true, but I'm wondering: Why would you want to do that? What are you gaining from merging BG1:EE into BG2:EE? Because unlike BG1 vs. BG2, the two Enhanced Editions are already using the same engine, so the only aspect from BGT that is currently missing when playing the Enhanced Editions is the continuity. And to restore this continuity, I think a simple NPC import mod for BG2:EE would suffice, instead of going to the length of merging two games.

[The Imp]

Well, I would save space, as I could uninstall the BGEE ... and all the mods. Should you know, modifying the game resource doubles the file space it takes, as you ned to have the backup and then the actual file... and having two game with it quadtripples it. And then there's the fact that the engine takes some room etc. I had a 30 GB game once with BWP.

PS, after you have generally Biffed the gamne files, you can go and destroy the mod folders, and have the ultimate game that can't really be changed, but you can save a lot of space... as you destroy the unneeded backups etc.

Edited by The Imp, 05 December 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[-Hurricane-]

I see.

[dabus]

Why would you want to save space and go such lengths if you can get 500 GB for ... lets say 50$ ? I don't think that's really a factor.
And even if not -- my old that's 6 years old got 160 and I have space to wast until the hard disk would be filled.

Edited by dabus, 05 December 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[The Imp]

Why would you want to save space and go such lengths if you can get 500 GB for ... lets say 50$ ? I don't think that's really a factor.
And even if not -- my old that's 6 years old got 160 and I have space to wast until the hard disk would be filled.

Well it's honestly not a try to get the game consume as little space as possible, but a try to make the best install one can... and that definition drives it. Like for example I will make ... ahh that's too much of a spoiler, I won't tell you.

[dabus]

Just saying that I'd rather go a simple quick and dirty route that works than a long one if I don't see a great benefit. If that's 2-10 GB of disk-space for you, well there you go.

[cmorgan]

I'm with -Hurricane- on this one, I'm afraid... I'd be darned happy just with a mod that read your BG:EE savegame and on import to BG:EE adjusted the npcs you brought over to be identical to where they left off in BG (basically like the "import from save" does for your character: class/kit combo, portrait, etc.). That and a working way of keeping Imoen a thief until I choose to let her dual over. There have been some mods that do this, iirc.

[10th]

@-Hurricane-

Reducing the features of BGT to playing with the BG2 engine and continuity does it a huge disservice.

 

It merges both games into one continuous journey without the disconnect of having to start up another game just to continue the story of your character. Which in turn also results in mods applying to both parts of the story. Playing spell/item mod X during your stay around Baldur's Gate enables you to keep spells/items after your transition to chateau Irenicus for example.

You couldn't do that with separate games.

 

Personally I'm not touching BGX:EE until there's a BGT:EE, added value (amount of playable mods/additional content) increases substantionally, price drops and/or bugs get fixed - in that order, from most to least important.

 

10th

Edited by 10th, 05 December 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[The Imp]

Personally I'm not touching BGX:EE until there's a BGT:EE, added value (amount of playable mods/additional content) increases substantionally, price drops and/or bugs get fixed - in that order, from most to least important.

Had I actually finished the BGII:ToB originally I would also wait, but I now have started a game in BGEE with the Dwarf Fighter kit that I intent to finish, so I can then fully play super modded game and se the differences.

That and a working way of keeping Imoen a thief until I choose to let her dual over. There have been some mods that do this, iirc.

Imoen can be dualed or not in BGT if you keep her constantly in the party. She is actually better as a mage than a thief ... but whatever.
I usually don't like playing two different game anyways on a journey, so I have always been on the BGT's side on this. How I wish they would remake the ME & ME2 to the ME 3's engine and let me have and Mass Effect Trilogy.

[Marvin]

Naaa... the ending ruined it.

 

@topic: As ling as there is no BGT:EE, I won't even consider buying the enhanced edtions. The original games offer so much more, due to all the mods. The only new feature is the zoom and it is not as cool as I thought it would be.

[-Hurricane-]

I'd be darned happy just with a mod that read your BG:EE savegame and on import to BG:EE adjusted the npcs you brought over to be identical to where they left off in BG. ... That and a working way of keeping Imoen a thief until I choose to let her dual over.

Exactly.
 

@-Hurricane-
Reducing the features of BGT to playing with the BG2 engine and continuity does it a huge disservice.

I wasn't trying to depreciate the awesomeness of my favorite mod. I merely wanted to point out BGT's original objective and most salient features in terms of game mechanics. Of course it is true that having a single game improves the player's immersion and facilitates the application of mods. It's just that this is more of a byproduct rather than the original purpose of BGT.

[The Imp]

I'd be darned happy just with a mod that read your BG:EE savegame and on import to BG:EE adjusted the npcs you brought over to be identical to where they left off in BG. ... That and a working way of keeping Imoen a thief until I choose to let her dual over.

Exactly.
 

Well, if the data doesn't exist that can be read, you can't actually mod it in... and then there comes questions like: How large changes could be taken into account ? What if Minsc was a Invoker and Dynaheir was a Barbarian ? ... for the player... it's actually easier to change both characters in one game than go than estimate and make the change every freaking conjuration of that can happen in two.

Naaa... the ending ruined it.

Nope, the Extended Ending DLC saved that. ... fortunately as we should know that the Bioware was under a lot of pressure to deliver in time, not in quality. The full idea of that here, after the second quote.
We just need to hope the company has grown enough for things like this to fade away. Yes, the Dragon Age 3's delay is actually a good sign ! Hopefully.

Edited by The Imp, 06 December 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[Marvin]

Naaa... the Extended Cut just added more nonsense to an already nonsensical ending . I'm not saying it is Bioware's fault. They were under a lot of pressure and obviously needed more time. Then again... Hudson said that the ending was mainly his idea and was bragging about it until the shitstorm hit, so... maybe it was his fault, too.

 

But in terms of BGT:EE I agree with you. There is no way around it. The example with Level 1 NPCs is valid. What if I wanna change a character class? What if I installed an item mod? Do modders then have to crate the same item mod twice, so I can install one for BG1 and one for BG2, just in case I want to use the item in the second game? What about modded spells? What about NPCs that have content for both games? It seems harder to me to create a mod that can read ALL THAT and then copy it over to BG2:EE. Just use the BGT idea and apply it to the EE

[Mike1072]

But in terms of BGT:EE I agree with you. There is no way around it. The example with Level 1 NPCs is valid. What if I wanna change a character class? What if I installed an item mod? Do modders then have to crate the same item mod twice, so I can install one for BG1 and one for BG2, just in case I want to use the item in the second game? What about modded spells? What about NPCs that have content for both games? It seems harder to me to create a mod that can read ALL THAT and then copy it over to BG2:EE. Just use the BGT idea and apply it to the EE

Just to point out, every new game requires extra work from modders to support.  Got a mod that works on BG2?  Want to make it compatible with BGT?  Might be more work.  Want to make it compatible with Tutu?  More work.  Want to make it compatible with BG:EE?  More work.  BGII:EE?  More work.  BGT:EE?  You get the idea.  It would be less work if modders abandoned all the old stuff and declared "now I make things ONLY for BGT:EE!" but nobody's going to do that.

[The Imp]

Just to point out, every new game requires extra work from modders to support.  Got a mod that works on BG2?  Want to make it compatible with BGT?  Might be more work.  Want to make it compatible with Tutu?  More work.  Want to make it compatible with BG:EE?  More work.  BGII:EE?  More work.  BGT:EE?  You get the idea.  It would be less work if modders abandoned all the old stuff and declared "now I make things ONLY for BGT:EE!" but nobody's going to do that.

That's totally mod based thing... as in what resources it uses and so on, I have a BG2 mod that works on all conversions on the bases that it edits the spells, which all the games use the exact same stereo typical format.
The fact is that only in cases that the base resources differ, a solution needs to be added, and there can be plenty of those or none at all depending on what you edit and how you go about doing it. But one would think that if there was BGT:EE, it shouldn't differ that much from the original BGT on the stand point of resource naming or other kinds of strange things (look for example the Tutu vs. BG2 item names for easy comparison) that add more work.