5286 replies to this topic

[pikachu01]

Thanks. It looks like a pure bug in the NPC Kitpack. On the G3 forums, subtledoctor just reported another bug in the "specialist mage descriptions" component of the NPC Kitpack.

@Lollorian maybe you can take a look?

I will mark these components as Expert in BWS until we have fixes (either a new release of NPC Kitpack or patches incorporated in the BiG World Fixpack).

@pikachu01 consider installing NPC_EE on your current game (it can be installed last, manually, even after generalized biffing) if you really care to change Nalia's kit to Adventurer (requires Song & Silence mod to be installed first for the kit).

http://www.github.co...ledoctor/NPC_EE

 

I did install NPC EE. Nalia's Kit was deselected though as per "Recommended" setup in BWS. 

[agb1]

I mirrored the Recommended setup from BGT for EE but never tested the NPC Kitpack on EE. I just assumed that it worked. Sorry for using you as a guinea pig.

[pikachu01]

I mirrored the Recommended setup from BGT for EE but never tested the NPC Kitpack on EE. I just assumed that it worked. Sorry for using you as a guinea pig.

 

It's fine. Happy to help this project. It's been a big help to manage this beast of a modding for BG2 EE.

[The Imp]

Remember that BWS first asks the user to select what type of game they want to install. BG1, BG2 or BGT are options.

And the game mode selection aka: BG1EE, BG1TUTU, BWS, BWP .bat install, BG2EE, CA etc doesn't cover that ?
And the BWS's BG2 should be the non-EE with the option to have BGT if the path is provided.

Well if you for example install BGT-weidu with the Trimpack, you won't actually install the BGT-weidu's own biffing it does for it's media files(Also this is same for SoS, TDD, and other big mods... Lollorian should be able to give you the exact details), that hurts the games loading speed usually if you do not use the Generalized Biffing to do that biffing. Now usually that's not a big problem as most people use the Gen Bif, or don't intent to ignore it after checking their games and rewamping something, but for people that do not know, it should be preselected.
Yes, one could uninstall the Gen Bif and thus have the... but if you have a 30 GB game, most of which is biffed with Gen Bif and so forth, it takes a lots of time to uninstall the Gen Bif ... and if you already enable also the finishing move, that deletes the excess folders, you can't actually uninstall the Gen Bif.

The other option of having a choise of installing one form of Gen Bif is not good either as if you really wish to Biff everything at the very end, you can't choose the option to choose to biff only the media file for 2 reasons, the first being that it's totally contrary to what you try to actually archive, and the second is that the Gen Biff's .tp2 doesn't allow it either, as it's part of the same group of components.
So the compromize has to be, to allow the Gen Biff to be unselected, but still being selected in the default min install. As in, if the player wishes to remove the Gen Bif fom the install prder, they can, it should also pop up a warning in options that come after customizing the component selection and warn that it can slow down the games boot process and give a choise to re-enable it or continue without enabling it. Like I have said in the FAQ of mine, it can take about 10 minutes to start the game if you do not use the biffing from starting the BGMain.exe to the actual movie start of the game. Even in the current hardware. (well, I didn't have an SSD, but I did have a computer with an i7 processor, and it still took a 10-15 minutes to start the game).

[agb1]

How about what ALIEN suggested?  Keep generalized biffing mandatory so new users who don't know the importance can't skip it, but expert users who know what they are doing can edit the mod ini file (Config\Global\generalized_biffing.ini) and remove the "F" from the Type line to allow it to be de-selected.

 

BWS update:

 

* Improved mod and component descriptions of "The Undying" mod, including German translation (didn't touch RU translation as it seems OK)

* Moved second component of "The Undying" ("Harder Enemies") from Standard to Tactical pre-selection

 

I'd like to invite the community to take a fresh look at www.shsforums.net/topic/58417-why-are-these-mods-expert-mods and volunteer for some of the tasks that need to be done to get more mods out of that category.

 

Edited by agb1, 25 November 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[The Imp]

How about what ALIEN suggested?  Keep generalized biffing mandatory so new users who don't know the importance can't skip it, but expert users who know what they are doing can edit the mod ini file ... and remove the "F" from the Type line to allow it to be de-selected.

Erhm, editing the .ini files shouldn't be nessasary.
Cause you should be able to set this mod to not be installed, by a choise. But it needs to be chosen to be installed by default even in the minimal installs... cause people can make their selections with min + some mod, or Tactics - a lots of mods and components.

[agb1]

How about what ALIEN suggested?  Keep generalized biffing mandatory so new users who don't know the importance can't skip it, but expert users who know what they are doing can edit the mod ini file ... and remove the "F" from the Type line to allow it to be de-selected.

Erhm, editing the .ini files shouldn't be nessasary.
Cause you should be able to set this mod to not be installed, by a choise. But it needs to be chosen to be installed by default even in the minimal installs... cause people can make their selections with min + some mod, or Tactics - a lots of mods and components.

Well, I can look at it.  Changing one letter in an ini file is a lot simpler than adding special cases in the au3 code for BWS, but I agree it would be better if the tool gives you the choice but also warns you.

 

Edit:  I will generalize this as a new feature request:  something like "Deselect-Warning=" in the mod ini being recognized by BWS and causing a pop-up confirmation with the provided text when a user de-selects that mod.  (Do we need this per-component, or is it enough to warn only if the entire mod is disabled?)

Edited by agb1, 25 November 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[The Imp]

Thanks.

... is it enough to warn only if the entire mod is disabled?

Yes.

[Lollorian]

Ok I consider Creepin's definition of Minimal to be the one the BWS should use:

 

For BG2:

ToBEx

BG2Fixpack

UB

aRestoration

GenBiff

 

For BGT:

ToBEx

BG2Fixpack

BGT

Better BG Areas

BG1UB

UB

aRestoration

GenBiff

 

I take back my no for arestoration after reading its readme (and I forgot how awesome her sound restorations are I think there was another sound-related mod in the works recently...)

 

As for BG1NPC, new content so not in Minimal.

 

PS: I would suggest not picking apart Minimal/Recommended for now - it's better to shuffle around between Standard & Expert - I still believe Tactical is redundant as a classification

 

Also, regarding the lolfixer:

 

The following are pure fixes:

Area Stuff - MAJESTIC Area Fixer
Creature Stuff - Creature Resource Fixer
Creature Stuff - Inventory Unborker (removes spurious references to the item table)
Creature Stuff - Inventory Cleaner (removes items that don't exist and converts them into already present items where applicable)
Creature Stuff - MAJESTIC Creature Fixer
Item Stuff - Item Resource Fixer
Item Stuff - MAJESTIC Item Fixer
Item Stuff - MAJESTIC Item Checker
Spell Stuff - Spell Resource Fixer
Spell Stuff - MAJESTIC Spell Fixer
Store Stuff - MAJESTIC Store Fixer

 

These are tweaks IMHO:
Creature Stuff - Inventory Overhauler (moves invalid but equippable items to inventory and equips anything in the inventory to a free slot)
Creature Stuff - Duplicate Creature Effect Remover
Item Stuff - Portrait Icon Assigner
Item Stuff - Proper Immunity Assigner
Item Stuff - Duplicate Item Effect Remover

 

About gen_biff, like the Imp said, keep it selected by default and just let anyone uncheck if they want - and if people come back saying they have stutters, it should be easy enough to just tell them to fuck off install the mod (it's at the end anyway )

[agb1]

More updates committed:

 

* Might & Guile preferred over Kit Revisions (Stable mods under active development get precedence over inactive mods to increase visibility and feedback to modders and encourage more content development)

* Silver Star moved back to Stable from Expert (thanks to Roxanne for reporting!)

* Silver Star mod description updated, with all translations (added NPC location)

* Improved mod and component descriptions for The Undying, with all translations (and added overwrite files warning to second component description)

* The Undying component 1 moved to Expert (BWP 15.5 says it overwrites files); component 0 reverted to Stable (I had confused it with #1 due to reversed install order and incorrectly marked it Tactical)

[agb1]

PS: I would suggest not picking apart Minimal/Recommended for now - it's better to shuffle around between Standard & Expert - I still believe Tactical is redundant as a classification

I'm going after both ends simultaneously.  Tactical is not redundant for components because there are many mods that have separated out components for increased difficulty.  It might be a murky classification for entire mods though.  Right now making a mod type Tactical determines the color of the mod name in BWS but not much else.  So it does communicate something about the intent of the mod that way, but I don't know if it's useful.  Do we need a classification of mods between Stable and Expert?  If so, ideally a word starting with a "T" so we don't have to change code.  It would be a classification about the type of content because Stable/Expert is enough for quality.  Or maybe not?  There could be a concept of mods that are in "Testing" ... we could put mods like Sandrah in that category, with no known issues but an increased chance (perhaps) of unexpected problems... so if you take a "Testing" mod you expect more stop-and-start in your game and asking questions on the forums when you get stuck than if you just take "Stable" mods.

[Lollorian]

The lolfixer's creature components should be a full replacer for the crefixer

how about Resource fixer?

Ah this is a complicated topic

 

The resource fixer for mod files (specifically CRE, ITM & SPL files) is not a component that helps make the game better. Neither does it increase performance nor reduce CtDs. It;s purely used to restructure mod files so other mods can easily modify them

 

The res_fixer is used by BP so that BP doesn't error out when trying to modify mod files that are not in the expected structure as defined by the IEDSP.

 

The lolfixer's resource fixer components are also used for a similar purpose - so that the other components in the lolfixer do not break for the same reason

[Roxanne]

PS: I would suggest not picking apart Minimal/Recommended for now - it's better to shuffle around between Standard & Expert - I still believe Tactical is redundant as a classification

I'm going after both ends simultaneously.  Tactical is not redundant for components because there are many mods that have separated out components for increased difficulty.  It might be a murky classification for entire mods though.  Right now making a mod type Tactical determines the color of the mod name in BWS but not much else.  So it does communicate something about the intent of the mod that way, but I don't know if it's useful.  Do we need a classification of mods between Stable and Expert?  If so, ideally a word starting with a "T" so we don't have to change code.  It would be a classification about the type of content because Stable/Expert is enough for quality.  Or maybe not?  There could be a concept of mods that are in "Testing" ... we could put mods like Sandrah in that category, with no known issues but an increased chance (perhaps) of unexpected problems... so if you take a "Testing" mod you expect more stop-and-start in your game and asking questions on the forums when you get stuck than if you just take "Stable" mods.

There are mods that are intended to be *pure tactical* by adding harder fights, enemies etc to the game.

There are some mods that primarily have another focus but add one or more occasional harder fights to the game (it is a bit matter of opinion and taste and sometimes a grey zone how to qualify those. E.g. the harder encounters may be compensated by a better weapon and more XP you had received during the mod prior to facing those)

 

And - in my selfless way - I much appreciate the notion to classify mods as *Testing* in the sense you defined above and also implying there is an active support for issues you encounter - distinguish them from *Expert* where your own knowledge is required to a high degree and where long known issues exist but no dedicated support is availabe if you encounter them.

[agb1]

@Lollorian can you help improve the component descriptions for the tweaks to more clearly explain what they do and why someone might not want them?

 

Spoiler

@0=Fix Area Stuff - MAJESTIC Area Fixer

@1=Fix Creature Stuff - Creature Resources (res_fixer for ALL CREATURES)

@2=Fix Creature Stuff - Inventory Unborker (removes spurious references to the item table)

@3=Fix Creature Stuff - Inventory Cleaner (removes items that don't exist and converts them into already present items where applicable)

@4=Tweak Creature Stuff - Inventory Overhauler (moves invalid but equippable items to inventory and equips anything in the inventory to a free slot)

@5=Fix Creature Stuff - MAJESTIC Creature Fixer

@6=Tweak Creature Stuff - Duplicate Creature Effect Remover

@7=Fix Item Stuff - Item Resources (res_fixer for ALL ITEMS)

@8=Fix Item Stuff - MAJESTIC Item Fixer

@9=Tweak Item Stuff - Portrait Icon Assigner

@10=Tweak Item Stuff - Proper Immunity Assigner

@11=Tweak Item Stuff - Duplicate Item Effect Remover

@12=Fix Item Stuff - MAJESTIC Item Checker

@13=Fix Spell Stuff - Spell Resource Fixer (res_fixer for ALL THE SPELLS)

@14=Fix Spell Stuff - MAJESTIC Spell Fixer

@15=Fix Store Stuff - MAJESTIC Store Fixer

 

I am marking all of the Fix components mandatory (part of the Minimal set).  These components will remain optional:  4 6 9 10 11

 

Edit:  Why don't my spoiler tags work?

Edited by agb1, 25 November 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[Creepin]

Ok I consider Creepin's definition of Minimal to be the one the BWS should use:
 
For BG2:
ToBEx
BG2Fixpack
UB
aRestoration
GenBiff
 
For BGT:
ToBEx
BG2Fixpack
BGT
Better BG Areas
BG1UB
UB
aRestoration
GenBiff

Since I'm mentioned: what I suggested was totally different: mark as mandatory only (strictly) the mods, without which installation would be impossible. For BG2 it is none of listed, and for BGT it is only BGT itself. All other mods should have the way of being avoided without needing to re-code BWS. Why do you think it is reasonable approach to enforce on other users your personal vision of what is good and desireable? Hek, even in the quoted tiny list of Lollorian there's mod I won't touch with a 6 feet stick and few mods that I don't care about to the point where I might as well want to exclude them. If your idea will work users will had to learn how BWS is coded (not a small feat) only because of they have other opinion on how their Big World should look like. This suck.

[agb1]

The resource fixer for mod files (specifically CRE, ITM & SPL files) is not a component that helps make the game better. Neither does it increase performance nor reduce CtDs. It;s purely used to restructure mod files so other mods can easily modify them

 

The res_fixer is used by BP so that BP doesn't error out when trying to modify mod files that are not in the expected structure as defined by the IEDSP.

 

The lolfixer's resource fixer components are also used for a similar purpose - so that the other components in the lolfixer do not break for the same reason

So cre_fixer is needed before installing BP (and other mods?) while lolfixer does similar things but at the end of an install for whatever cre_fixer missed...?

 

Do we know which mods need cre_fixer?  I will add dependencies for them.

[Lollorian]

@Creepin: BG2Fixpack & ToBEx is mandatory The BWPFixpack assumes it's installed for many of its fixes

 

Btw just out of curiousity - the 6 foot pole mod, which one is it? (also reasons if possible)

 

@agb1: Miloch's cre_fixer != horred's res_fixer (only used by BP)

Edited by Lollorian, 25 November 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[The Imp]

@agb1: Miloch's cre_fixer != horred's res_fixer (only used by BP)

@Lollorian: I believe you intend to say that Miloch's cre_fixer is not horred's cre_fixer ... but involving code ... could lead to whole lot's of interpritation mistakes, especially if someone would thing there was a Miloch's "cre_fixer !".

Noone will ever read this warning, generalized biffing is not a "mod" in general terms - it's a fix for stuttering and if it would be part of the fixpack, it would be forced also.

Undestanding it this way is actually false, as it just so happens that it won't fix any stuttering, it just allows the computer to read the game code faster as it can load it faster. Or something essentially to that effect. So there's less stuttering as there's less code the computer needs to blow through each time it reads something, aka computes stuff.
It would be horrible in the BG2Fixpack. It would be the same as if the WinRAR install program was pagaged into a regular .rar archive, just for the kicks.

Edited by The Imp, 25 November 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[The Imp]

Well, let's see.
You install something that edits the sw1h01.itm -file and then install the GB.
Then you install a mod that has this in the .tp2 file:

FILE_EXISTS ~sw1h01.itm~
COPY ~sw1h01.itm~ ~override/markfile.itm~

It doesn't work... cause you have to use this:

FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~sw1h01.itm~
COPY ~sw1h01.itm~ ~override/markfile.itm~

Things like this was small part of why the start of the BG2 mods were somewhat rouch to patching files.
The other part is, if you bif a file, then edit it, bif it again, edit it again, it gets larger and larger each time. Not in the game, but in the .bif files themselves as there's 4 copies of it in them and the one in the override folder. Which is why the Generalize Biffing is the last mod to be installed. You don't want to do that ever before that.

[Lollorian]

@0=Fix Area Stuff - MAJESTIC Area Fixer

- assigns unassigned & missing area scripts to areas

- invisible containers with items have their items dropped on the ground (prevents missing items)

- invalid items in containers are removed or converted to their closest equivalent if tutu or typo (prevents invisible items)

- missing ambients are removed (prevents stuttering)

- missing actors are removed (prevents crashes)

- actors referencing CREs don't have attached CREs set

- actors with removal timer = 0 are not removed (prevents missing NPCs)

- invalid/missing CREs in spawn triggers are removed (prevents crashes)

- invalid/missing CREs in rest spawn triggers are removed (prevents crashes on resting)

 

 

@1=Fix Creature Stuff - Creature Resources (res_fixer for ALL CREATURES)

- restructures CREs for following creature components to not fail

- soundset shifting for idle noises if relevant ToBEx component is installed

- fixes known error in infamous SENDRO03.CRE from BP if not already fixed

 

@2=Fix Creature Stuff - Inventory Unborker (removes spurious references to the item table)

- Adds non-critical items found in the creature's inventory table but not actually referenced by the creature's inventory into the creature's inventory

- Required for component #3 to work properly

 

@3=Fix Creature Stuff - Inventory Cleaner (removes items that don't exist and converts them into already present items where applicable)

- removes invalid items from the creatures inventory or tries to fix them if tutu or typo

 

@4=Tweak Creature Stuff - Inventory Overhauler (moves invalid but equippable items to inventory and equips anything in the inventory to a free slot)

- removes items from invalid slots and places them in inventory (eg: armor in weapons slot) and sets them to not-pickpocketable

- removes invalid combinations of items. Eg: 2-handed sword with shield etc (prevents crashes)

- equips any armor, weapon, helmet found in the inventory on the NPC if space allows it

 

Note: this should actually be considered a fix because it prevents crashes based on invalid item combinations

 

@5=Fix Creature Stuff - MAJESTIC Creature Fixer

- removes missing scripts from creatures or fixes them if typo

- removes missing dialogue from creatures or assigns unassigned dialogue if CRE-name matches DLG-name

- fixes wrong spell slots assignments. Eg: Minor Heal in the mage spell book

- fixes wrong spell levels. Eg: Horrid Wilting at level 1

- removes spells with invali levels. Eg: any level 9000 spell (prevents crashes)

- removes missing known/memorized spells from spellbook

 

@6=Tweak Creature Stuff - Duplicate Creature Effect Remover

- deletes exactly matching duplicate creature effects (usually caused by many mods trying to do add the same effect on a creature without checking if it's already there)

 

@7=Fix Item Stuff - Item Resources (res_fixer for ALL ITEMS)

- restructures ITM files for the following item stuff components

- BG2Fixpack's flaming sword fix extended to all mod flaming swords to prevent emo-self-damaging swords

- makes poison resist effect properly work if ToBEx is installed

- fixes crashing for helm animset JC if 1PPv4 installed

 

@8=Fix Item Stuff - MAJESTIC Item Fixer

- sets 2-handed flag on 2-handed weapons (prevents crash)

- nulls non-existent used up items

- links container items (bags etc) to proper stores if missing

- sets proper type for items with an invalid type. Eg: BG1/IWD item types converted to BG2 types

- assigns placeholders/appropriate icons to items missing inventory/ground/description icons

- removes invalid abilities

- assigns item icon to ability if missing

- sets enchantment level if magical item

- sets proper ability slots. Eg: Claws marked as a spell

- assigns proper animation probabilities (overhand, backhand, thrust)

- removes animations from non/singular animating items. Eg: arrows, bows etc (prevents crashes)

 

@9=Tweak Item Stuff - Portrait Icon Assigner

- assigns portrait icons depending on item effects if missing them (cosmetic and informative but can clutter up the portrait)

- fixes bugs in portrait effects. Eg: items who assign portraits to the attacked creature instead of the user

 

@10=Tweak Item Stuff - Proper Immunity Assigner

- adds immunities based on BG2Fixpack standards to all items. Eg: immunity to domination will also provide immunity to charm

 

@11=Tweak Item Stuff - Duplicate Item Effect Remover

- same as Duplicate Creature Effect Remover but for ITMs

 

@12=Fix Item Stuff - MAJESTIC Item Checker

- not recommended for players

- checks various stuff in ITMs for modders to fix themselves

- changes reported are subjective so lolfixer cannot automate their fixing

 

@13=Fix Spell Stuff - Spell Resource Fixer (res_fixer for ALL THE SPELLS)

- restructures SPL files for following Spell Stuff components

 

@14=Fix Spell Stuff - MAJESTIC Spell Fixer

- innate spells set to level 1 for scripts

- innate abilities have their abilities properly set

- preset target spells target self (prevents crash)

- horred's code for patching scripts to use innates properly without crashes

 

@15=Fix Store Stuff - MAJESTIC Store Fixer

- starts sale of items in inventory but not sold

- starts purchasing items that could be purchased but were not being purchased

- starts sale of services (drinks & cures) that could be offered but were not being offered

- missing items removed from inventory