30 replies to this topic

[Ulb]

This is basically a 'bundle' of ideas that have been floating around my head for a while now.

All of them are dedicated to improve or expand on the whole lycanthropy aspect of the game.

Some of those ideas are almost guaranteed to never be realized while others might have a good chance to spring to life some day in the future

 

What I hope to gain from this thread is of course your feed back on each idea:

 

- Whether you think an idea would indeed enrich the game or not.

- How an idea could be further improved or if there may be a simpler/easier way to achieve a similar result.

- Whether you think an idea is technically doable and how hard it would be to do it. (I'm a total noob when it comes to modding.)

 

 

Here is a general outline of the whole 'pack':

 

1. Character Kits

1.1 Ranger/Werebear Kit

1.2 Priest of Malar/Werewolf Kit

1.3 Rogue/Wererat Kit

 

2. Dialogue and storyline fixes

2.1 Creating/setting some kind of standard variable for the game to recognize lycanthropes.

2.2 Adjusting the whole Werewolf Island story line to make sense for lycanthropes.

2.3 Add additional dialogue options for lycanthropes to various (werewolf) encounters.

2.4 Add additional lycanthropy encounters, maybe a quest or tow.

 

3. NPC Mod

Turn Delainy (the woman from the werewolf island) into a join-able, possible romance-able npc.

 

So let's get started ...

 

1. Character Kits

 

This is obviously the easiest part and will most likely be realized.

 

I'm already using a Ranger/Werebear Kit in my game. The kit uses a single level scaling spell for the transformation. The spell has unlimited uses per day and the transformation lasts until canceled.

 

The kit obviously still needs some (or a lot of) balancing as well as a better (d&d compatible) 'flavor' text / kit description. (As well as a cool kit name for the record screen.)

 

What's important to me here is to make the were-form scale as much as possible with character stats (and partially with equipment) to avoid that unbalance the original shapeshifter druid kit has. (Overpowered at the start, underpowered at the end)

 

However, the most important thing I need in order to get a release ready version is to get an idea of what needs to be done in order to make a kit as compatible as possible with other mods and different game versions.

 

I know that shapeshifting spells have a long history of bugs and hard to overcome engine limitations. (If I remember correctly there were some major issues about magically created weapons always being dispelled.)

Now, ToBex seems to fix all or almost all of those problems. Flagging the spell as a 'none magical ability' solved all dispelling issues I had. What I need to find out right now is how my spells work on none ToBex games. (Or better say, how to make them work on none ToBex games, if possible.)

 

Of course there are a lot of other mods that need to considered as well and I would be very grateful for any input on the issue. (The only mod my kit is already compatible with is Divine Remix, which has a great guide on how to easily make a kit compatible)

 

Once all that is done, it should be relatively easy to adapt the shapeshifting spell for the other two kits..

 

I'm posting the current kit description of my kit to get some critique/input, but please keep in mind that this is work in progress and most of the kit description was just made up 'on the fly' and will certainly get reworked. (Especially that 'no true lycanthrope' part won't make it into any release version.)

Spoiler

BEAR SKIN-WALKER: While natural born werebears and those afflicted with lycanthropy may choose the path of a ranger, most bear skin-walkers are no lycanthropes at first, or at least show no immediate sign of lycanthropy in the beginning. While this has been a point up to much debate, most scholars tend towards the thesis that those who successfully follow the path of a bear skin-walker must at least have had some natural werebear in their ancestry and carry a suppressed variation of lycanthropy in their heritage.

 

Whatever the case maybe, a bear skin-walker is not only a ranger but also develops and trains the ability to shapeshift into a werebear. At higher levels, bear skin-walkers are considered real lycanthropes, thought they lack the ability to afflict others with lycanthropy.

 

Since bear skin-walkers focus a lot of their efforts to further improve their shapeshifting abilities and usually prefer to turn into their hybrid forms if engaged in melee combat, they are less proficient with weapons and armor than other rangers.

 

ADVANTAGES:

 

- At level 3 gains the ability to shapeshift into a bear-human hybrid form.

- Werebear form improves as the ranger advances in levels.

 

DISADVANTAGES:

 

- May only become proficient (one star) with melee weapons.

- Cannot wear armor greater than studded leather.

- Must be of good alignment.

 

WEREBEAR FORM:

 

Level 3:

- HP +5% / AC+1 / STR +1 / CON +1 / COLD RESIST 30%

- Transformation lasts one minute.

- Character is berserking while shapeshifted (total loss of character control while in combat).

- Natural claws are considered to be of +1 enchantment and deal 1d6 slashing damage.

- 30% chance on hit to knock opponents down unless they save vs. breath weapon.

 

Level 6:

- HP +10% / AC+1 / STR +1 / CON +2 / COLD RESIST 40%

- Transformation lasts until canceled.

- Partial ability to talk and cast spells (75% casting failure - does not affect innate abilities).

- Berserking if character's HP drop below 50%.

- Natural claws are considered to be of +2 enchantment and deal 1d6+1 slashing damage.

- 30% chance on hit to knock opponents down unless they save vs. breath weapon.

 

Level 12:

- HP +20% / AC+2 / STR +2 / CON +4 / COLD RESIST 60% / PHYSICAL RESIST 20%

- Transformation lasts until canceled.

- Partial ability to talk and cast spells (50% casting failure - does not affect innate abilities).

- Berserking if character's HP drop below 25%.

- Natural claws are considered to be of +3 enchantment and deal 2d4+2 slashing damage.

- 30% chance on hit to knock opponents down unless they save vs. breath weapon.

 

Level 18:

- HP +40% / AC+3 / STR +2 / CON +4 / COLD RESIST 80% / PHYSICAL RESIST 30%

- Transformation lasts until canceled.

- Partial ability to talk and cast spells (25% casting failure - does not affect innate abilities)

- Berserking if character's HP drop below 10%.

- Natural claws are considered to be of +4 enchantment and deal 2d6+4 slashing damage.

- 30% chance on hit to knock opponents down unless they save vs. breath weapon (-4 ).

 

As for the other two kits, I haven't yet spend too much time on fleshing out those ideas.

 

A priest of Malar kit is just something I'd really like to play some day. Other than the shapeshifting spells and the necessary balancing I'm not sure how much special spells/HLAs a priest kit really needs or should have. I'd really like to do some kind of 'Hunting Call' spell (working title) which would increase offensive abilities/melee combat at the cost of defense and maybe a chance to go berserk.

Other than that, maybe a 'Summon beasts of Malar' HLA.

The kit could also come with it's own class quest, possible organizing a 'High Hunt' and or 'Feast of Stags'.

 

As for the Wererat/Rogue kit, I haven't spend any real thought on that, I just think it would be a nice addition to the other kits. I'm not even sure whether a thief/wererat or a bard/wererat kit would be 'cooler'..

 

 

2. Dialogue and storyline fixes

 

Creating/setting some kind of standard variable for the game to recognize lycanthropes.

 

This really is the core idea of the whole pack. The idea is to simply add an additional spell to every lycanthropy kit, which sets a global variable at the beginning. This variable could then be used to recognize (even different kinds of) lycanthropes in dialogues and other scripts.

 

For example: The variable '#imalycant' would be used to determine whether a (main) character is a lycanthrope or not. #imalycant=0 means no lycanthrope, #imalycant>0 means he/she is a lycanthrope. Specific values could be used to determine which kind of lycanthrope the character is. (1= werewolf, 2=werebear, 3=wererat, 4=were...)

 

This system would allow future were-kit makers to have the game recognize their kits, as well as to add dialogue that recognizes lycanthropes. (Such a spell could also easily be added to already existing were-kits, assuming their creators wouldn't mind.)

 

Whit that done, part 2.2 to 2.4 would be next.

(Adjusting the whole Werewolf Island story line to make sense for lycanthropes.

Add additional dialogue options for lycanthropes to various (werewolf) encounters.

Add additional lycanthropy encounters, maybe a quest or tow.)

 

Whether I'll ever be able to pull this part off, I'm not too sure. Right now I have no idea about dialogues nor the modding skills needed to create a mod that changes them and even if I had, I'd still have to come up with some decent story/dialogue arc to alter the Werewolf Island story for lycanthropes.

 

Sadly I don't think I have (as in: I'm pretty sure I don't have) a talent for story telling and/or writing. That is also the reason why '3. Turning Delainy into a fully fleshed npc mod' will probably never happen. I just added that point because I always thought she had so much potential to be a party npc. But other than that I didn't spend much time thinking about how to pull it off or what story she would have to tell. (Other than being nicer than her fellow werewolves.)

 

I think that is all for now, I might add some additional ideas later, if some come to mind.

For now I'd really like to hear what you think about those ideas. Maybe once I'm done with this term's exams (for which I should be studying right now instead of writing this.. oh my god oh my god.. ) I'll have time to put some effort into this.

 

(Thanks for reading, I'm aware it is quite a long read )

[Kaeloree]

Delainy as a party-joinable NPC in BG2 is actually one of the oldest mods-in-progress around.

[Ulb]

Wow, I'm amazed I never heared of it. There even is a progress update from feb. 2013, so this mod might acutally happen.

[Eric P.]

Looks like some overlapping interest between your mod and mine...

 

The mod I'm developing includes the Beast of Malar, in its Hunting Panther and Claw Slayer forms. Sadly, there's no custom animation for it, so I just use the GREATCAT_PANTHER animation, with a visual cue for transformation from the first form to the second. I've been discouraged in the past from making a Talon of Malar kit, so I abandoned that idea.

[Ulb]

Just looked up your old thread about the kit. Sounds pretty nice and fleshed out. Also seems to be pretty close to the dnd source material from what I can tell. (I'm a dnd dummy and only know what little information I can get for free from various wiki pages.) For my kit, I would probably go for a 'priest-part' that is little more conventional, since being a werewolf kind off negates the need to summon claws I guess

 

That being said, if you're still interested in a Talon of Malar kit and are not too much in a hurry to get it (this part is important ), I might be inclined to give it a shot. The kit sounds interesting enough and probably won't be a bad 'base' to create a priest/werewolf kit afterward. (This is not a promise that I will definitely create the kit, just me asking whether you would be interest in the kit, should I decide to do it and manage to produce something usable.)

 

As for your animation problem, the easiest way would probably be to use a recolored bear animation (black or maybe a dark red hue) for the Claw Slayer. I admit that this probably feels pretty unsatisfactory, but unfortunately I have no idea about 3d modeling nor exporting 3d models from games.. so I guess right now I'm of little help on that matter.

 

Anyway, you've got me quite interested in your mod. Is there a thread where I can get more information about it?

[Almateria]

Delainy as a party-joinable NPC in BG2 is actually one of the oldest mods-in-progress around.

 

It would be cool if there was an actual existing Delainy mod. Besides, there's no restriction on there being two mods about the same thing!

[Eric P.]

I'd be thrilled and grateful for whatever you might do on the Talon of Malar concept. Yes, I take source material from Forgotten Realms canon as much as possible, as I have a long history with PnP frpgs and I like that so many themes run through well-developed fantasy settings. Gives more of a sense of a real world. Then, there are the Outer Planes...but, I digress. Seriously, though, I'm glad to see more interest in FR-themed content. My NPC has a custom kit, the Needle of Mielikki, but it's not available to other characters, as it doesn't grant enough benefit to be worth taking.

[Eric P.]

Delainy as a party-joinable NPC in BG2 is actually one of the oldest mods-in-progress around.

 

It would be cool if there was an actual existing Delainy mod. Besides, there's no restriction on there being two mods about the same thing!

I'd say there's plenty of precedent for that, yeah

[Gwendolyne]

Looks like some overlapping interest between your mod and mine...

 

The mod I'm developing includes the Beast of Malar, in its Hunting Panther and Claw Slayer forms. Sadly, there's no custom animation for it, so I just use the GREATCAT_PANTHER animation, with a visual cue for transformation from the first form to the second. I've been discouraged in the past from making a Talon of Malar kit, so I abandoned that idea.

 

Sorry if I squat your topic, Ulb.

 

But one big part of my mod consist of introducing 50 new monsters animations. For that, I requested help from the french modding community. In counter part, I converted more animations for them.

As a result, I will soon release a new add-on to I.A. that will provide about 150 new animations converted from Diablo II and Arcanum.

 

In the process, I left many animations on the road either because I did not liked them, or I didn't see the point to introduce them in the BG background, or even because I was very tired of converting...

 

I remember a tiger from Arcanum that suits to those criteria.

 

You could PM me a description of what animation you really need (or even a picture) and I could check if I have something in my raw files that could suit it.

 

Adding one more animation to the pack is not a great stuff and if it allows you to make your project more attractive...

 

 

@ Ulb : The pack will contain all the Wererats from PST and Arcanum.

Edited by Gwendolyne, 22 March 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[Eric P.]

Won't work for me, as IA can't install on my system.

[Ulb]

It would be cool if there was an actual existing Delainy mod. Besides, there's no restriction on there being two mods about the same thing!

 

I agree on the coolness but I am most certainly not the one to deliver it. As I said, I only mentioned it because I thought it would be great if someone would do such a mod. The fact that someone actually does, makes me quite happy.

@ Eric P. Getting the ranger/werebear kit out is still my priority, but after that is done I'll (as in: I'm planning to) give the Talon kit a try. (I might pester you with a few lore questions once I'm on it )

 

Regarding that issue with IA not running on Mac ( I guess that’s it? ): If that is the case, you are almost doomed to re-use original bg2 animations. The only other way would be to overwrite an existing animation slot, which I can't imagine to be appreciated by many mod users. The best way would probably be to offer two install versions, one with the new animations Gwendolyne might be able to offer and another one with standard bg2 animations.

@Gwendolyne

No worries about highjacking my thread, I like to do that myself

May I ask how you've added shadows to the diablo2 animations? As you might be aware of I ported the bear and werebear animations but never added a shadow to the bear animation. So if you've found a relatively easy way to do it, now might be the time:).  (Also, it would be interesting to see how far off (angle wise) my custom made werebear animation's shadow is.

For a description of the Beast of Malar and it's forms ... I don't necessarily want to link google search images here, but if you google 'beast of malar' the very first picture you get will depict all three forms.

I'm sure I've read a pretty detailed description somewhere, but can't seem to find it right now. (So if I'm wrong someone please correct me)

Basically it is a black furred beast with red marks on its snout, shoulder and paws.

Hunting Panther form obviously resembles a panther, Claw Slayer is supposed to resemble some giant wolverine (looks like a bear anyway) and the bat form resembles some kind of giant bat (duh)

[Eric P.]

There's also a Werewarrior kit mod that you might want to look at, if only to see what someone else has done with the idea.

 

As for IA vs. non-IA installations, it's easy enough to make the components selectable during install of the mod

 

Your descriptions of the Beast's three forms are fine. The bat form is completely unnecessary for inclusion in BG2. My mod sets up random ambushes with packs of Hunting Panthers. After two melee rounds, a Hunting Panther transforms into the Claw Slayer form, and the fighting continues When a Beast is killed, it is lootable for its claw, and different numbers of claws are exchangeable for magic items from an NPC who serves Mielikki.

Edited by Eric P., 23 March 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I remember a female ranger in classic adventures used to be a werebear. She could join your party in the Silver Princess plot. Her animation is a bear. I do not know, if she has a custom kit. So it is hard to say, if it is usefull peeking in her files.

It is a custom kit yeah. Named as Peasant Hero, the characters name is Aleigha in fact. It used the Stalker usability flag(only studded leather etc...)

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 23 March 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Gwendolyne]

@Gwendolyne

No worries about highjacking my thread, I like to do that myself

May I ask how you've added shadows to the diablo2 animations? As you might be aware of I ported the bear and werebear animations but never added a shadow to the bear animation. So if you've found a relatively easy way to do it, now might be the time:).  (Also, it would be interesting to see how far off (angle wise) my custom made werebear animation's shadow is.

For a description of the Beast of Malar and it's forms ... I don't necessarily want to link google search images here, but if you google 'beast of malar' the very first picture you get will depict all three forms.

I'm sure I've read a pretty detailed description somewhere, but can't seem to find it right now. (So if I'm wrong someone please correct me)

Basically it is a black furred beast with red marks on its snout, shoulder and paws.

Hunting Panther form obviously resembles a panther, Claw Slayer is supposed to resemble some giant wolverine (looks like a bear anyway) and the bat form resembles some kind of giant bat (duh)

 

I am working with a Diablo Modder who is updating one of his old modding tools. He accepted to provide new fonctions that allow me to export bmp files paletted (with index 0 and 1 for transparency and shadows), to create shadows that I can modify (Height ans Skew cursors) and to provide all the frames the same x-y position.

 

It spared me a lot of time. So, porting the Diablo II animations was not very difficult.

 

If you agree, I can have a look at the Bear animations and make brand new shadows for them. The only thing I won't be able to do is producing shadows for the xxxDE and XXXDEE files because the Diablo ones make the Bear disappear and you created brand new frames for them.

 

 

I have already converted the bat :

 

 

 

in two versions : a small one and a "large" one that will "fall in love" with Bouh...

 

 

For the Hunting Panther, I could convert one of those from Arcanum :

 

[Ulb]

Thanks for the information about the kits. I might take a look at them, thought technically my kit is already up and running, so it is more about which mods to look out for compatibility wise.

 

Also, while digging for information/inspiration for the kit description, it dawned on me that going into too much detail (about patron gods or specific organizations associated with the kit) is actually a very bad idea. The kit is supposed to provide a 'ranger who is also a werebear' kit for people who would like to play exactly that. Limiting their character's background story and development by some kit text would be stupid.

 

So now that I've decided to go with a rather generic kit description, I only need a cool name for the kit. Here are a few candidates, please feel free to comment on them (or suggest alternatives ):

'Bearwalker', 'Bearskin', 'Bearskin-Walker', 'Bear-Skin Walker'.

 

@Gwendolyne

 

If it isn't too much trouble for you, that would be very nice.

 

I don't think the werebear animation needs a new shadow, but I would most certainly be grateful if you could create one for the (giant) bear animation. (Also the bear animation's xxxde bam only has 15 images and basically only two directions since west and east are just mirroed and there are no straight nord or south animations, so it would be rather easy for me to add a custom shadow to it or re-do it from a bam with a shadow, once the rest of the animation is done.)

 

*Edit*

 

On a second thought, I don't think it is really necessary to add a shadow to the giant bear animation either. Since you are in the middle of building your own mod, I guess you have better things to do than to waste your time on an animation that isn't likely to be used any time soon. I mean, I don't need it for any of my mod ideas nor have I heard of anyone else who actually uses it or would like to use it if it had a shadow. The only use I can think of is as a spirit bear, in which case it would have a blur effect anyway and probably looks even better without a shadow.

 

So unless it really is that easy for you to do and doesn't take more than a few minutes, I don't think it is necessary. (Of course, if you are super excited to do it, I won't stop you .. )

Edited by Ulb, 23 March 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[Gwendolyne]

Dont' worry : I will note it on my to do list with a rather low level priority.

 

As I am also converting a few objects animations form Diablo II, the next time I will convert one, I will choose the good parameters for the shadow and export the files. Depending on the level of dificulty of this peculiar animation, it will take me between 30 minutes (i I am lucky) and one hour !

 

But as you ported it in the IWD format, it should not be very long...

Edited by Gwendolyne, 24 March 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[Ulb]

Sounds good to me.

 

I've got a first version of the werebear kit ready.

Since I haven't yet tested it on any other installation than my current one, I'm not ready to ask for testers. Thought if anyone wants to take a look at it, be my quest.

Attached Files

•  Bearwalker Kit_alpha.7z   615.14K   368 downloads

[Jarno Mikkola]

A few comments...

Thought if anyone wants to take a look at it, be my quest.
...

  // Appended to ABCLASRQ.2da
  ~UBbear                16      0      16      0       0       0~
...
  // Appended to ABDCDSRQ.2da
  ~UBbear                17      17     0       0       17      0~

  // Appended to ABDCSCRQ.2da
  ~UBbear                15      15     0       0       15       0~
...
  // PC races and classes allowed to use this kit, from KITTABLE.2da
  ~... K_R_D ...~

 
 

Right, you are going to make a dwarf ranger, and why would you put so hard to reach dual class requirements ? And no dual to class...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 24 March 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Ulb]

Do not dare to question my dual class policy or feel my dwarven wrath!

 

As for the race allowance, I admit I just didn't bother to check whether dwarves could be rangers or not. (I'm actually pretty sure DnD's original class restrictions for rangers are rather liberal and include gnomes as well as dwarves.)

 

However, thanks to you I just realized that I totally forgot to include elves and fixed that.

 

The reason why I bother to update the stats for dual classing is pretty simple, because CamDawg says so in his awesome kit creation guide! Other than that, it doesn't really matter since I'm not allowing to dual class from the kit anyway. (As for the stat values, I can't really tell you what I was originally thinking since this kit has gone through quite a few incarnations already.)

 

Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to look at the file and helping me to root out my first 'bug', yay for that!

 

*edit*

 

Also, I just realised the min str/con stat requirements are a bit high, lowered them to 13 each.

Edited by Ulb, 25 March 2013 - 12:02 AM.