55 replies to this topic

[Eric P.]

She'd be considered a full fiend if both parents were also fiends, so each parent's nature is crucial.

[Eric P.]

A tiefling is someone with fiend blood somewhere back in the previous generations of his/her heritage, while a half-fiend is the product of a union between a "mortal" and a true fiend (like a baatezu (devil) or a tanar'ri (demon)).

[Nightwoe]

Ok, I see where I went wrong here. Ok, in the background drafts, I DID say she was whole devil indirectly, pardon me for the idiocy, I never put into play the coming alongs I had...I was looking for an excuse to make her half-devil, I just havn't found one yet. Ugh, I'm an idiot, uhm...

 

 

In planning phases I wasn't really paying enough attention to that detail and somehow was thinking to myself, "eh, it works," but some tweaking is in order. Let me see what I can come up with.

[theacefes]

Also, I don't mean to be defensive, but in this "too special" aspect, I don't see how this concept is much different then Haer'Dalis, OTHER then Caoco is holding on to her roots with vengeance, while Haer'Dalis roams aimlessly. I don't mean to say this with any grief, but please, explain yourselves on the extremity so I can understand where you are coming from.

 

Apologies if this comes across as rude but please do some research on Haer'Dalis. Then go look at the other successful NPC mods that are even a little other worldly (Fade, Amber...I probably forgot some). Then come back and look at your idea. What makes your idea too special isn't the individual aspects of Caoco, which all sound neat - it's the combination of all of them. By all means, make the mod however you want (just make it and get it off paper, honestly). But be prepared for criticism, harsh responses, and even mockery when players start feeling like their CHARNAME is a co-star living in the shadow of your NPC.

[Nightwoe]

Apologies if this comes across as rude but please do some research on Haer'Dalis. Then go look at the other successful NPC mods that are even a little other worldly (Fade, Amber...I probably forgot some). Then come back and look at your idea. What makes your idea too special isn't the individual aspects of Caoco, which all sound neat - it's the combination of all of them. By all means, make the mod however you want (just make it and get it off paper, honestly). But be prepared for criticism, harsh responses, and even mockery when players start feeling like their CHARNAME is a co-star living in the shadow of your NPC.

 

Apology not needed, I wouldn't have posted if I didn't want criticism. Like I said, I didn't want to sound defensive, I just didn't understand where you were coming from. I will heed your advice and do more research. I'm still a bit confused on the fear, because I feel that without an outcome, it is near impossible to gauge if the concept goes overboard or not. But of course, I gave you what I had, and you all responded in kind, and I thank you for that.

[Rhaella]

UGH...Tieflings...SO overdone...perhaps not in BG, but I'm sick of Tieflings. Also, it just doesn't fit.

 

Now, let me take another side trip and ask you a question...explain to me in detail the full difference between a Tiefling and a Half-Fiend.

 

Also, I don't mean to be defensive, but in this "too special" aspect, I don't see how this concept is much different then Haer'Dalis, OTHER then Caoco is holding on to her roots with vengeance, while Haer'Dalis roams aimlessly. I don't mean to say this with any grief, but please, explain yourselves on the extremity so I can understand where you are coming from.

 

OH, let me add, I had NO intention of making her a full blooded devil in the game, I agree on that extremity, that's like having a dog following you around, it's too much and doesn't flow with the game.

 

Well, Haer'dalis's colorful background is more alluded to than actually present, and given his bardic inclinations, it's entirely possible that he's making most of it up. And he doesn't have much of any special abilities, other than a nice extra proficiency or two. Sigil is definitely a bit exotic, and that Doomguard philosophy is alien enough, but he's comparatively tame about it. Haer'dalis isn't planning to topple the Lady of Pain or anything of the sort, after all.

 

But yeah, alu-fiend is definitely still a large step down from full-blooded fiend, and might be workable. However, if you think that tieflings are overdone... well, the only difference between an alu-fiend and a tiefling is one generation, so I'd be curious about why one type of fiend-blooded creature is acceptable and the other isn't.

 

[edit] Full fiend: both parents are fiendish.

Half fiend: one parent is fiendish. If you're an alu-fiend, your mother was the devil/demon. If you're a cambion, it was your father. Alu-fiend might just apply to half-succubi, but probably should to half-erinyes also.

Tiefling: At most, one parent is a half-fiend. Any fiendish descent thereafter makes you a tiefling.

Edited by Rhaella, 19 January 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Nightwoe]

Well, Haer'dalis's colorful background is more alluded to than actually present, and given his bardic inclinations, it's entirely possible that he's making most of it up. And he doesn't have much of any special abilities, other than a nice extra proficiency or two. Sigil is definitely a bit exotic, and that Doomguard philosophy is alien enough, but he's comparatively tame about it. Haer'dalis isn't planning to topple the Lady of Pain or anything of the sort, after all.

 

But yeah, alu-fiend is definitely still a large step down from full-blooded fiend, and might be workable. However, if you think that tieflings are overdone... well, the only difference between an alu-fiend and a tiefling is one generation, so I'd be curious about why one type of fiend-blooded creature is acceptable and the other isn't.

 

Here now, see...that's kind of what I want to go with in this mod, she doesn't TELL a lot of these things, and she doesn't spend every dialogue raging "I WILL TOPPLE ASMODEUS BLAHBLAHBLAH" no...she is subtle...manipulative...and importantly, secretive. she reveals bits and pieces here and there, but like I said before, think Viconia. How she hardly speaks of any of her past, yet she ALLUDES to it consistently. Same with Haer'Dalis (along with his fantastical tellings, of course, heh). She never tells anyone who her father is, never tells anything of her half-sister, and only mentions her full length plans to a willing PC much later on. Caoco focuses on the PC with persuasion attempts. That's the only thing I might go overboard on, but that's what friends with copies are for, *titter*

I've played a lot of mods. I remember Solofeign or however that's spelled, as well as an escapade of others. I hold the Tsujatha mod as a memorial to quality, and I hope to follow that standard.

 

OH, and about the tiefling thing, eh...it's a lengthy story I really don't want to get into. It's not about the heritage or any technical aspects, it's about a personal situation and coming from experiences best left in the closet. Let's just say Half-Fiend is new to me. Tiefling is not.

Edited by Nightwoe, 19 January 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Tempest]

Bear in mind, though, that Haer'Dalis is likely to see through her immediately, and Keldorn is also likely to go "Your sob story is nice. I'm also pretty sure it's embellished if not entirely made up and excuses precisely nothing about your behavior."

 

Honestly, you're coming across as far too enamored of how special and awesome your NPC is for your own or the NPC mod's good.

[Nightwoe]

Bear in mind, though, that Haer'Dalis is likely to see through her immediately, and Keldorn is also likely to go "Your sob story is nice. I'm also pretty sure it's embellished if not entirely made up and excuses precisely nothing about your behavior."

 

Honestly, you're coming across as far too enamored of how special and awesome your NPC is for your own or the NPC mod's good.

 

Hmm..interesting...though there is no love born for this characer through many NPCs. Many NPCs do NOT like her. At all. In all reality, she's meant to be a good evil aligned party character. But perhaps I am over embellishing her. *shrug* we shall see with time. Keldorn immediately despises her behavior, Haer'Dalis sees her similar to how he saw Yoshimo.\, but with much more certainty. Haer'Dalis is a character I have a difficult time with, which is why I will seek out the romance writer when the time comes to get all the information I need to write accurately.

 

I find your comment strange and with strong bite, seeing as I put no details on her relationships with the other NPCs yet.

 

Let's re-define awesomeness for a moment...excitement for creating my first mod, and of course, I'm going to make mistakes. Please don't begrudge me said mistakes.

[Eric P.]

The Mary Sue test is handy for a character concept's sanity check.

[Eric P.]

I'd say a demigod (such as <CHARNAME>) tops a fiend in "wow factor," but that's just me.

[Choo Choo]

Yeah, but CHARNAME is also the game's protagonist, and the game deals with the legacy of his/her father. Throwing in a random half-dolphin half-devil - I'm a bit confused as to exactly what she is, and dolphin makes as much sense as any - with cosmic aspirations and deformed feet that are surprisingly like stilettos and ridiculously overpowered stats...

 

It's all a bit much, is all I'm saying. And if she was born in Baator, and she's a devil, she really should be lawful evil. Is there a particular reason she's not? She fled the city in her youth, but she must have still been at least an adolescent at the point.

 

Scale back on the craziness a bit, is my advice.

[theacefes]

Let's re-define awesomeness for a moment...excitement for creating my first mod, and of course, I'm going to make mistakes. Please don't begrudge me said mistakes.

 

 

All I see here are experienced players and even modders jumping in on what is a potentially cool NPC concept and trying to make sure it *stays* a cool concept. I would more be offended if my idea was completely ignored.

 

Try to avoid paying too much attention to the tone of posts and pick out the constructive parts of them. People just want to help after all.

Edited by theacefes, 19 January 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Nightwoe]

Throwing in a random half-dolphin half-devil - I'm a bit confused as to exactly what she is, and dolphin makes as much sense as any -

 

o.o...

The images in my head...

...for some weird reason...I want to draw this...

Let's re-define awesomeness for a moment...excitement for creating my first mod, and of course, I'm going to make mistakes. Please don't begrudge me said mistakes.

 

 

All I see here are experienced players and even modders jumping in on what is a potentially cool NPC concept and trying to make sure it *stays* a cool concept. I would more be offended if my idea was completely ignored.

 

Try to avoid paying too much attention to the tone of posts and pick out the constructive parts of them. People just want to help after all.

 

Okay, before I got online today, I made sure I was in an *ecstatic* mood...sooooooooo....

 

FIRST...thank you for ALL the comments. My defensiveness gets in my way, kind of like Anomen, really. *shrug*

 

Let us try another approach to this draft *claps hands together*

 

Everyone who has posted thus far, I want you to follow me and close your eyes a moment...Give me a post telling me...in ALL your experience...in all your fantasies...after everything that's been said...give me what you envision when you see this mod at it's *maximum* potential. Tell me what you like, what you want to see, what you imagine this mod would be like at its absolute best. This is YOUR vision...I gave you mine, and all of you are holding a hand right now, so play them face up on the table, let all the cards show. Show what you got!

Edited by Nightwoe, 20 January 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Tempest]

You tell us. You're the one who wants to make the mod. Therefore, it's entirely up to you. People have offered their thought and criticisms, but we can not and will not write your mod for you or decide what it will be about.

[Nightwoe]

You tell us. You're the one who wants to make the mod. Therefore, it's entirely up to you. People have offered their thought and criticisms, but we can not and will not write your mod for you or decide what it will be about.

 

I'm not asking you to write it, hun, I want a little different side of input. I told you what I envisioned. Some have said "cool concept". but I've yet to see any aspect found "cool" in concept from responses. What is it that is liked? what is it that others are seeing? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but regardless, I pose the question. I leave it in your hands...though it ultimately will be molded from my own. My visions are my own. I know that now more then ever.

[Tempest]

Then let me put it in simpler terms: write the mod you want to write. You are free to accept or ignore the criticism of others as you wish. The entire concept is one I roll my eyes at and would never download, for my own opinion, and I feel your style is overly dramatic and purple, but I won't stop you from writing what you wish.

 

You remarked earlier that you hold Tsujatha as a memorial to quality. Unfortunately, Tsujatha is often held up as an excellent example of a mod done with considerable technical skill but terrible writing and concept. You may wish to consider what audience you are writing for, and how okay you are with criticism - the authors of Tsujatha and Saerileth, for example, were in the habit of simply deleting any negative criticism of their mods.

Edited by Tempest, 20 January 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Nightwoe]

To me, Tsujatha was a REMARKABLE piece of work. Amazing, beautiful, well done. The concept and design, unique and DEEP. You can skim through his content, or dive into it. The dialogue was perfectly done. Not too long, not too short, just the right number of dialogues, very well voiced.

 

Thank you for reminding me of what I care about, Tempest. You're right. Now, I feel a clear mission. It no longer matters. Fulfillment and art. Social structure be forgotten, to dust with doubt.

[Choo Choo]

Oooookay.

 

The quality of a mod is always subjective. For example, I'm not a huge fan of Tsujatha either - but I'm sure plenty of people are, and I'm sure that there are lots of people who think that the mods I like are complete and utter garbage.

 

Nightwoe, if you feel like going on and writing an NPC then I wish you the best of luck. Caoco isn't my cup of tea, either, but I'm sure that there are players who will appreciate her.

 

My advice is to consider scaling back the idea; right now, she's a bit special snowflake.

[Eric P.]

*Tossing in two coppers*

 

Put together all the concepts that make the mod feel complete in telling your story, as you integrate it into the game. Beta testing will reveal the relative strengths and weaknesses, and serve to guide you in fine-tuning the thing.

 

Follow your muse