42 replies to this topic

[Echo]

...how bad would it be?

 

No, really, I've been tormented by an idea of an NPC mod for a while and I wouldn't mind dabbling in it during lectures at uni and things like that. I write very fast and I think up stories even faster.

 

The problem is - I know nothing about coding. Absolute 0. I remember I once opened some tool called Jar of Infinity to do something about a mod variable clutter issue and my brain wrinkled then curled up in a corner when I saw that chaos. And I've heard there are some obscure rules to naming and whatnot.

 

So my question is: is this whole coding thing easier than it looks or should I just forget it?

Edited by Echo, 01 January 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Tempest]

It is easier than it seems, but unfortunately the best NPC making tutorial is down along with Gibberlings 3 at present.

[Solaufein]

Not really. The Complete and Total NOOB's Guide to Creating an NPC by theacefes

Edited by Solaufein, 01 January 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[Echo]

I like the name of the guide, thank you very much

[Zyraen]

Coding is relatively easy to learn ^^;; having the creative juices to write, and write stuff that's interesting / appealing / realistic to the rest, that's the tricky part.

[Echo]

Alright, since it's graspable (and since I asked a friend of mine if she would perhaps be able to help me when push comes to shove), I'm going to start poking deeper and actually writing dialogues when a muse strikes. It will be a nice change of scenery from writing my novels (the amount of brainwork ._.).

 

^0^

 

 

 

I got a few starter questions before I bork something/do something pointlessly and then discover it won't work:

 

1. is it possible to trigger 1-line commentary appearing above the NPCs head upon entering a location or something alike? And by that I mean in a way that would NOT cause some crazy variable constant checking. I've seen that kind of thing at work and it brought THE STUTTER. So not worth it.

 

2. is it possible/healthy (as above) to add interjections to the NPC concerning modded content? What I mean is for example some quests from the Unfinished Business just call for a comment from this or that NPC.

 

3. is it possible/healthy that such an NPC would comment on events such as:

a) after a Bioware NPC joins the party for the first time

b) after a modded NPC joins the party for the first time

c) comment randomly on a given party member to the PC? This seems reasonable because the inter-party banters should use same counters/variables, no? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm green, after all

 

4. I've played this game 10k times (well okay... maybe 20 times, still), but I can't answer a simple question: what's so magical about Adalon's blood that it can be used in correlation to that armor? Lore-wise, what could this blood be used for other than that/some dark ritual? Anything? I know it's an odd question, but it'd be nice to get an answer

 

5. In the face of upcoming BG2 Enhanced Edition, does anyone know if all the mods will work with it?

 

6. Can an NPC or CHARNAME bring up a topic of a completed quest in a conversation? Are there such possibilities or is it too complex?

 

7. How many new custom variables are healthy to use in a mod? Is there a limit or won't it matter? I mean ones such as, in some normal lovetalk CHARNAME says that they always wanted a pink elephant. It sets a variable idk, elephant=1 or they say they prefer jellyfishes a lot more which sets elephant to 2 etc. Then it only being 'summoned' back in another lovetalk where PC either gets an elephant or a jellyfish.

 

7a. That would also go for rising some love/friendship variable. I've never dug into the mod builds too much, but from what I've usually seen they operated on 3 numbers seemingly. For romance active, romance dead and romance consummated. Could someone explain to me more about this? I can hardly picture it working on just such instances as many times it would be nice to just subtract a point or two for PC being a jerk instead of killing a romance (bad mood, an argument etc) and then, say, at some point make a breaking lovetalk that would judge if romance remains active and follows or if it ends (20+ points follows, anything less ends). I think that's how it opeated in NWN HotU. Can it be done in BG?



Thank you very much and sorry for a question swamp, I hope someone patient comes around and answers at least a question or two at a time

[Kaeloree]

1) No, you'd have to use a variable for each instance--but this isn't actually a problem as long as you make sure your variables are used correctly. Don't be scared of variables, because you're going to have to deal with a lot of them!

2) This is actually pretty difficult to do, so I'd suggest avoiding it if possible.

3) Sure.

4) Well, she's a silver dragon, and dragon blood is supposed to be relatively potent. I would imagine so?

5) They will probably require some minor updates to work properly.

6) Sure, you just need to find out what the relevant variables to check are by going through the dialogues/scripts in the game.

7) No limit.

7a) For what you're describing, modders generally use an extra "like" variable. The RomanceActive variable should be used as intended so other mods can check it etc.

[Mike1072]

Here are the same answers from a different perspective.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. Yes. Yes.
5. The amount of work to make an NPC compatible with BG2EE will probably be around the same whether you make the mod now or wait until after BG2EE comes out.
6. Yes.
7. No practical limit.
7a. You can invent whatever variables you want to track whatever you want to have your NPC react however you want.

[Kaeloree]

Interjecting into mod dialogues becomes kind of difficult as you are dealing with fluid states, and it's really not something I'd recommend for a beginner.

[Mike1072]

Interjecting into mod dialogues becomes kind of difficult as you are dealing with fluid states, and it's really not something I'd recommend for a beginner.

BUT IT'S POSSIBLE.

[Kaeloree]

Touché! It's possible, sure.

[Echo]

Thaaaank you so much guys for swift replies. So with these answers I can do all that I have intended ^-^

 

I suppose I will write those shorty commentaries for modded content if I see fit, I trust that if I got as far as having it all done and up for implementation I could bat my eyelids on some code macho to help me make these few lines work, assuming said friend of mine wouldn't know how to :3

 

I plan to make the romance both more lenient and difficult to carry on (in an exact way a player might want ) at the same time. I believe an option for PC to initiate a conversation, alike a flirt, and then being able to talk about a done quest or ask about something the NPC said before, it could make it feel like it really goes both ways and give player the feeling that they have ways to struggle to get what they want - or speak their mind about what annoys them or just pisses them off. And since said NPC will be strongly opposed to some things PC could want, she/he would need to be in good standing with him for him to agree to do such a thing.

 

Oh, but am I rambling!

 

 

On more sensible question: at what point in development is it worth asking for the NPC's forum to share progress and fish for opinions?

 

Thank you again!

[Eric P.]

Totally develop this, and don't hesitate to ask questions about anything that comes up! If I can learn to code mods, anyone can If you come up with a concept you'd like to implement, there's almost always a way to mod it.

 

As for putting up a forum, my understanding is that the mod needs to be ready to beta-test (but you can still have "filler" text here and there, while waiting for your creative muse to inspire you to write meaningful dialogue/banter), and that it will at least install successfully. Liam can guide you best on this

[Choo Choo]

For hosting, we generally want the mod to be 50% done; for say, an NPC or a quest mod, it'd require samples of writing and coding, a general overview and so on. The staff votes on whether to host a mod or not based on the quality, and if a majority vote in favour, the mod is hosted. Pretty simple. That's what is required to have public and official hosting. If you'd like a private workroom until you're ready to ask for hosting, that can be arranged!

 

It's always great to see new modders, and I can't wait to see what you're coming up with.

[Echo]

I'd like to say "hey I'm new here so <yada>", but that'd be a blatant lie since I've been here since 2006 (lost acc ), yet I still have to ask: what is the purpose of those private workrooms?

[Jarno Mikkola]

I'd like to say "hey I'm new here so <yada>", but that'd be a blatant lie since I've been here since 2006 (lost acc ), yet I still have to ask: what is the purpose of those private workrooms?

Well, it's usually meant for closed beta releases... etc. so a smaller group of people can give you open advice on how to do things like coding specific parts of the mods and so forth.

For hosting, we generally want the mod to be 50% done;

Well, that's public hosting for a separate project... one can always op up using the Misc Release mods for small mods... where you can upload the file to a post and be good with that.

[theacefes]

I'd like to say "hey I'm new here so <yada>", but that'd be a blatant lie since I've been here since 2006 (lost acc ), yet I still have to ask: what is the purpose of those private workrooms?

Well, it's usually meant for closed beta releases... etc. so a smaller group of people can give you open advice on how to do things like coding specific parts of the mods and so forth.

For hosting, we generally want the mod to be 50% done;

Well, that's public hosting for a separate project... one can always op up using the Misc Release mods for small mods... where you can upload the file to a post and be good with that.

 

 

I love how you just took everything out of context so you could reply with a smartass answer. Good use of the forums and people's time!

[Kaeloree]

Workrooms are generally used for workshopping the project, proofreading, getting feedback from specific people and as a way to organise your modding process. They can be very useful if you like forums.

[Choo Choo]

Oh, well then it's good to see that you started modding! I haven't seen you around before, so I assumed you were new - apologies. Welcome back!

 

As for the Misc Mods, I should probably explain that forum's purpose since Jarno seems to find it unclear. It is for mods that are, for a variety of reasons, not eligible for full hosting - typically, the mods are too small to warrant forums of their own. For a full NPC, or a decent-sized quest mod, or a full tweakpack or what have you, public hosting is far preferable.

[Echo]

Yeah, I'd assume that too, I can't remember what my old account was and it was registered to an e-mail long gone, so I just made a new one. Let her rest in peace.

 

Well what I've planned is a full NPC mod for BG2. I've refrained from writing actual talks until I learn how to do them right (well, aside some sketches on paper), but I've a skeleton ready and soon-to-be-ready portrait. Drawing from scratch takes time. Also have all those Bioware NPCs dispositions towards the character, his own plot-events opinions, background, romance paths (2) outlined and stuff like that.

 

That being said, it obviously doesn't yet qualify as a mod. It's just that: a Skeleton. Next step zombie.

 

Though I find that few things are as priceless to a creator of anything as constructive feedback and a slap on the wrist saying "THIS IS BAD, MON, TRASH THIS PART" or "HOLY MOTHER OF CORNY I'VE NEVER SEEN A BIGGER CHEESE IN MY LIFE". So if such measly skeletons were allowed some input or critique, I'd surely not refuse it. When all's done and ready, it seems a bit late to ask for guidance, does it not?