35 replies to this topic

[Test Person]

As I install the BiG World Project (currently on install attempt 42, and no joke either) I am writing a guide and pulling together various fixes, patches, and workarounds for a multiple of bugs and glitches ...but I am hitting a problem with the demise of the G3 site and various files that are not available through their emergency mirror.

What I would like to ask here, in this forum, is for the help of other forum members in providing missing files in order that I may provide a complete mirror.  I also need the permission, if possible, of the BiG World Project administrators and any further information that may be useful, pertinent, relevant, or otherwise essential or useful for what I am doing ...and no, there will be no advertising B/S, spyware, malware, or other cr*p on the mirror and I am not interested, in the slightest, in profiting from the mirror. - I simply love Baldurs Gate and the whole concept of the BiG World Project, and am extremely happy with what I have managed to get working so far.

At some point I may get involved with the modding side of things but, for now, I only have the time to provide resources and to encourage the use of those resources, so here is the first part of that contribution.

Edited by Test Person, 20 December 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[Lollorian]

Yeah a temporary mirror for the latest G3 stuff would be cool (my bandwidth sucks so attaching them myself is... umm )

[dabus]

Last time someone tried this it was removed very short after that.
The last time someone provided zipped files with the mods these files were removed shortly after they were uploaded because modders didn't want that.
So I'd go and ask for permission first before you do anything.

I'd also guess that Leonardo wouldn't want to mirror his stuff (he didn't want others to update his files at least).
I also wonder if it would be more profit if you have quirks and work with Leonardo, Lol and others to fix those errors.

[Test Person]

No problem, and thanks, - my main motivation, aside from my love of Baldurs Gate, is to keep projects like the BWP going and current. - As it stands I am hitting allot of problems and had a hell's own job just figuring out what I needed in the first place [(many of the guides on BWP are horribly inaccurate and out of date) (hence the reason for producing my own guide, which I will upload to one of my sites shortly)].

On the bugs and glitches side of things, most of the them are with the installer and where there has been a breakdown in updating the files, or where files which are dangerously unstable are marked as recommended. Plus, too, there is a major problem with unavailable content (currently much of this is due to BWP's unfortunate dependency on the G3 site, whilst other mods are proving problematic because they can only be obtained legitimately by signing up to certain Chinese forums, eg: Legions of Hell, or else they are hosted on ad sites which don't allow direct linking. So far, I have been able to find solutions to most of the bugs and glitches on this site, but will post on others when and as I have a better understanding of what is happening with them and which files, or mods, are actually causing the problems.

Finally, I would not expect the modders to upload to our site. - My intention would be to personally upload the latest editions of the files, as required by the installer, as and when they become available ...so my mirror would simply be there for those who wanted it (or who wanted to point their installer links to it).

Edited by Test Person, 21 December 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[Kaeloree]

It's more that modders don't want their mods uploaded anywhere but the site(s) that their mods are actually hosted on, for a variety of reasons. We don't ask much of players, except that they respect our desire to not mirror content without our permission

[Test Person]

Fair enough, - I can understand that, - but for projects like the BWP it does mean that when a site becomes unavailable for any reason you are going to have people potentially turning against, or away, from it (because their intended install is simply not possible) and, for the modder, you have a situation where their content (which could involve the work of many and weeks or months or work) could become unavailable and stay unavailable, ie: become lost. If a modder, or team, did not want their work mirroring, though, I would respect that, or remove any work that was already present. In fact, if all is acceptable to Leonardo, I will post a list of mirrored content in this post, along with the relevent links and anyone with any objections can then either PM me or comment on the post.

Edited by Test Person, 21 December 2012 - 01:07 AM.

[Kaeloree]

Please do not mirror SHS content without the explicit permission of each modder in question. I'm relatively sure that CamDawg/theacefes of G3 and jcompton at PPG will feel the same way about their sites' respective content.

[Kulyok]

You're very welcome to provide modding support with huge mod installations - they are often bugged, there are compatibility problems, and an extra pair of hands researching them is always great, be it a player or a modder. The thing with mirrors, though, requires mod authors's permissions, as my colleagues have already written above. Which may be tricky.

Warning - large text below.

(A needless reminder, probably, but I'll play Captain Obvious here: BWP guys are an important part of Badur's Gate mod community, but they don't own all the BWP mods. Mods are, well, authored by their authors. Hence asking Leonardo about, say, mirroring Darian NPC would be like asking George Lucas to make a Dexter movie - just as pointless, since another guy wrote the books. Although I kinda want a Dexter movie, now that I think of it...)

Anyway. I know it's frustrating that G3's been down for a few days. It happened with all large modding sites at some point, I think. And to be honest, I feel that a huge mirror for all BG and BG2 would be beneficial, if we can trust it. Maybe something like Dragon Age Nexus or Neverwinter Nights vault. And, importantly, maintained by more than one or two people, and not one heart attack away from oblivion, since BG series will live on long after we abandon modding. But what we have is what we have - PPG, G3, SHS, other small communities, and that's how it's probably going to be.

If someone with money and reputation, someone like Beamdog or Atari(yes, I like dreaming) comes and offers us a huge mirror, I'll accept it without question. Especially since they'll ask for permission. But if someone comes out from the blue and says: "hey, you don't know me, but I'm gonna mirror your mods, and I don't care what you think!" my answer is, predictably, no. Even if this person has the best of intentions.

So, yes, we don't appreciate piracy, yadda yadda yadda. In this day and age, when Pratchett's books, Bioware games and new TV episodes become available in seconds, I don't think anybody can really stop anyone from mirroring any files on various torrents, file hosting services and free websites. Although, sure, we mod authors can ban people like that from all modding forums, complain to their site provider and file hosting moderator, find out how they cheated on their girlfriend and tell her and do other nasty things, but it's just better... not start this at all. Me, I'm too old for this shit.

I hope you have the best of intentions, it's just you stirred the unwelcome topic, I'm afraid. But there're lots of other interesting stuff you can do - create your own mods, for one. Or play with a smaller installation, if you're having trouble with the full BWP install(many do). In any case, as long as you're not mirroring my mods(or Pocket Plane mods, in which case I'll come crying to Jason), welcome to the modding community, and enjoy BG series.

[Marvin]

I think there shouldn't be introduced too many sources . The mods usually are up to date on their respective sites, You can be sure to get the latest versions from there. The G3 downtimes are problematic, but I thik that downtimes this long are the exception.

You are right however about some issues:
- There are plenty different instructions for BWP installations and it is not always clear which one should be use.
- Some of the are outdated
- Since there are sooo many mods and soo many different versions of mods, it is confusing, even with the BWS, which is a great tool.
- There are unfixed bugs, and if you want to help in that respect, I think you should contact Leonardo, as he would be pleased to have a helping hand. I'm sure of that.

[Test Person]

@kulyok, @marvin: thanks for the input, - I don't have the time for modding at the moment because my business interests take up most of my time but, equally, I don't agree with sitting here saying we should have this and should have that, whilst doing sod all to contribute anything myself; hence my offer of a mirror and the guide I am working on. - In the few spare hours I have, when not reading, studying, or out walking or cycling I currently play Baldurs Gate and play around with the installer. - The guide is something I can work on alongside that, whilst the resources are something I have anyway as a result of my online activities ...and I know that such resources are usually in short supply for modding communities (which frequently have to work on a tight budget).

So what I propose to do, at present, is upload what I have and hold back anything from anyone who has told me they don't want their material mirroring. - I will use mod_rewrite to keep out search engines, won't advertise the site (file index would probably be more accurate, seeing as there would be no need for any web page content), or enter it into any of our Google profiles, but I will make the links available here with listed content ...would something like this be acceptable?

That way people would have to visit the forum to find the material, and modders could quickly verify whether or not their material was being made available, or not, on the index ...and have a means of easily contacting me should need to. Plus, the links could be removed at any time by the forum moderators should it be felt necessary to do so (though I hope that it would not be!).

Edited by Test Person, 21 December 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[Lollorian]

I sincerely hope no one has a problem with uploading the latest versions of the G3 mods because the alternate mirror is unfortunately hopelessly outdated for some mods Atleast until the actual site comes back on I mean... I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it.

I wonder though, I've seen the IEGMC mirrors have backups of mods (old ones albeit) from a variety of sources and they've been helpful alteast twice for me when a random site went offline What if Test Person is offering something similar?

PS: @Test Person: No tampering with the original mod packages hopefully Someone had come up earlier with an idea to mirror stuff but offered to also update the actual mod packages with the fixes from the BWPFixpack (and other sources)... Yes, the idea got assassinated... all Ezio like!

[Jarno Mikkola]

I wonder though, I've seen the IEGMC mirrors have backups of mods (old ones albeit) from a variety of sources and they've been helpful alteast twice for me when a random site went offline What if Test Person is offering something similar?

Well, then, if the interface is easy to use, like in IEGMC, then I am sure at least it can be used as an BiG Wold Projects mod archive, which will help some people ... I would upload the few mods I have out there...

[Marvin]

@test person i like the idea you stated and hope none of the modders disagrees that this would be helpful and a nice compromise. concerning the fixes, i would still contact leonardo so they can be imemented in the bwp fixpack. also about your guide i am not sure. there are already many guids and introducing a new one would be the wrong move i think. don't you think it would be better to update the .pdf files leonardo wrote? i'm sure that would save you some time as.well

[dabus]

I also wonder what those quirks, fixes, patches, workarounds would be for you.
Are those in game, does the weidu-installer throw errors, are the reproducible, should the be fixed or included in a fixpack of some sort...

[Kaeloree]

Please do not mirror SHS content without the explicit permission of each modder in question. I'm relatively sure that CamDawg/theacefes of G3 and jcompton at PPG will feel the same way about their sites' respective content.

Again, an opt-out system is not enough. Do not mirror our mods without explicit permission from the author or myself, thank you.

[Theon]

Hi!

I've asked Dark0ne, the admin of the Nexus sites if he'd be interested in opening a BG Nexus. Waiting for reply.
I gathered there MAY be support for this on this side. Thoughts?
In my opinion it could be beneficial, the Nexus has proven to be reliable so far, and there are many tools to support mod owners, as it's made specifically for modding...

[Marvin]

@K'aeloree would you consider opening a poll or just plain asking your collegues of an alternative mirror site would be acceptable. I really believe the final idea Test Persion stated is a good compromise. The site would be available only through links, which themselves are only available in this forum.

Doesn't that sound pretty reasonable?

[Test Person]

Looking through the replies so far I can see that the possibility of having mods played around with is a concern ...well that is not going to happen. For starters I can MD5 checksum the files (to help prevent and detect any tampering on the server side) and, last but not least, it is the job of the modder, installer and/or various tweak packs to modify the contents of the mods (if they need modifying, or should there be any corrections, bug fixes, or other alterations). - Doing this myself would cause untold problems, regardless of whether the mods were being used for BWP or not.

@Lollorian: the IEGMC mirrors are very similar to what I have mind (only they would be linked to the forum, as I said earlier) and the content would need to be much more up-to-date, and with none of the broken links (and, yes, I realise it is difficult to have 100% working links with something as fluid as this) ...and I promise that any fixes will be posted seperately on the forum for your perusal - I will not touch the files themselves!

@marvin: I have contacted Leonardo, but have yet to hear back from them ...and I was not aware that there was a .pdf guide until yesterday ...and very nice it is, too! ...so I will probably just keep my guide as it is at present, - a series of notes on various gotchas (eg: deleting mod.ini.gz before trying to update the download content because, otherwise the update will fail and the installer will crash) and things to be aware of when trying to use the GUI installer (there things to be aware of with the command line installer, too, but I prefer the GUI installer ...and so it is that that my notes will be about) ...and, yes, maybe these notes could be added to the .pdf as an addendum, or integrated into the main content, if Leonardo wanted that. I like the idea of a poll, too, - thanks.

@dabus: the main issue I am having at the moment with the files is with the .exe files, which are installed right after the extraction part of the install process (when using the GUI installer). - I noticed that many were throwing errors along the lines of oh, crap! cannot find dialog.tlk - keel over and die!

I know the reason for this is probably because the content is being extracted into a directory other than the main BGII-SoA directory; however, with some of them it is because they assume a path of C:\Program Files\Black Isle\BGII-SoA ...and with others they neither assume an install path or give one, so simply fail to install (none of which is logged, and none of which causes the install process to halt or throw an exception of any kind. This is where, in collaborative programming projects, you would usually standardize the installer version of the software to a setup file and seperate directory of content (think Elder Scrolls game addons).

I am not sure what the best solution for this would be, because interacting with .exe files to hook and rewrite the paths can be an absolute pain and would, potentially, cause untold security issues ...so the G3 team (the main culprit for the .exe files) would have to revert back to using a setup file and content directory ...of course, the .exe files can be manually run after the extraction process, although this does defeat the objective of having an install process in the first place to some degree.

@K'aeloree (is that pronounced calorie, as in an SI unit of energy? ) I have already said that no modder's work will be available through the mirror, or index, should they not want that and I stand by that. Likewise, should something be listed by accident or oversight, I would happily remove it.

@Theon: sound idea, - the greater the availability of resources, the better. - Limiting the availability of things can be good for controlling bad content, rogue material, etc. but can often results in a catastrophic loss of modding material and resources through the loss of even just a single site (take the ongoing situation with the Gibberlings 3 site, for example. - There is much content there that will likely be permanently lost, short of the site becoming available again).

Edited by Test Person, 22 December 2012 - 07:23 AM.

[CamDawg]

Kulyok's right, there's fuck-all we can do about it in a practical sense, so all we have is an appeal to your better nature. I've been modding for over a decade with a couple hundred (thousand?) hours spent in various projects and I only ask for one thing in return.

[Test Person]

Kulyok's right, there's fuck-all we can do about it in a practical sense, so all we have is an appeal to your better nature. I've been modding for over a decade with a couple hundred (thousand?) hours spent in various projects and I only ask for one thing in return.

Fuck-all we can do about what - ? - The Gibberlings 3 site? - I already know that web hosts can be absolute b**tards, - I have had personal experience of several of the worse of them, - and I have experience as a modder, too, so you don't need to worry about me indexing your mods if you don't want me to. - Just don't freak out on me, please, should I link something of yours because someone has omitted to detail who the author is (as often happens with some sites where the readme is only online as long as the website is).

Edited by Test Person, 22 December 2012 - 07:31 AM.