58 replies to this topic

[Kaigen]

Probably a safe assumption. My Gnome is just irreverent enough that she can't resist poking fun at all the finger-wagging (Yes Imoen, magic is very very dangerous and I don't know if you're ready for the responsibility. Now go set up a couple of bear traps for us to lead bandits into).

[Rhaella]

Keep in mind that it's not quite the same thing for anyone who's Amnish, though. Paranoia about magic is a pretty widespread phenomenon in Amn. =)

 

Tempest, just so you know... I took a look at the coding and those banters actually are triggering always, not just when she's dual classed.

[Tempest]

That isn't how it was supposed to be. >_> Something to fix in the next version, once I finish Valerie's crossmod banters with Gavin. At any rate, Valerie's usually not very paranoid about magic if she believes it's in responsible hands - Dynaheir is more than a friend to Valerie, and in BG2 Valerie hits it off quite well with Aerie. Imoen is an irresponsible child meddling with forces beyond her understanding, and Valerie is understandably concerned.

 

Frankly, if I ever get around to adding banters between Valerie and the EE NPCs, Valerie outright attempting to arrest Neera if in Nashkel or in that area, within Amnish territory, isn't out of the question. Valerie absolutely hates wild magic, and I'm seriously considering wild mages being unable to complete Valerie's romance in BG2.

 

I noticed you said your PC is a female gnome, Kaigen. Don't know if you were hoping to romance Valerie or not, but only humans, half-elves, and half-orcs can complete the romance in BG2.

[Kaigen]

Don't worry, I double-checked the romance pre-requisites. Valerie's just along for the ride on this one (Isra, on the other hand...). Romancing her will come with a future, yet-to-be-determined Charname. And definitely, for people from Amn, magic is clearly in a class of its own when it comes to Dangerous Things. It makes me wonder how much that's sectioned off in Valerie's head, though. For example, when Imoen sweeps an area for traps and pronounces it "clean," does Valerie take her at her word, or does she still step around gingerly, wondering if the foolish girl got distracted and missed something? Charname's got a boatload of reasons to trust Imoen implicitly (or not, depending on how you fill in those gaps). Valerie, not so much.

 

While I'm thinking about it, I noticed that Valerie gets some minor elemental resistances. Is that something that comes up in conversation, or is it just a minor NPC quirk for added color?

 

Edit: Also, glad to hear about the Aerie banters, she's one of my favorites in BG2. I have a hard time not taking her and Mazzy on any given (good-aligned) playthrough.

Edited by Kaigen, 30 January 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[Tempest]

The elemental resistances are something you'll learn more about in BG2 if you romance her. There's a reason she has them.

 

Imoen: internally, Valerie probably is uneasy about trusting Imoen, but she's uneasy about a lot of the details of adventuring. Checking for traps is something Valerie knows nothing about - she knows magic and that's about it. 

 

In BG2, like BG1, Valerie will generally get along quite well with a good-aligned party. Of the Bioware NPCs, Aerie is probably Valerie's easiest and closest friend in BG2. Since I like writing NPC-NPC romances as a way to add extra color to NPCs if you aren't romancing them as the PC, I gave serious thought to an Aerie/Valerie relationship. I declined because Darian, my previous mod, already has a ToB-only relationship with Aerie, and because they'd run into the same issues that keep an elf PC from romancing Valerie.

[Kaigen]

I like NPC-NPC romances as well. I like the way the Haer'Dalis/Aerie romance develops in BG2 (including the part where she dumps him ).

 

How do you feel about people making content suggestions? I have an idea for a minor bit of added content in BG2 that I think would go well with the Valerie mod, but I don't want to be the jackass barging in offering unsolicited ideas.

[Tempest]

Please do. I'm entirely open to suggestions.

 

As for the NPC-NPC thing, well, that will have to wait. theacefes and I are still working out the details, but the planned crossmod Valerie/Sarah romance will likely be part of the Crossmod Banter Pack.

[Kaigen]

It occurred to me recently that a good-aligned Charname doesn't really have any good options when it comes to disposing of cursed items. Take the Cursed Berserking Two-Handed Sword, for example. It sends Captain Brage on a killing spree, and when you calm him down he gives it to you. What are you going to do with it? You're not going to use it yourself, you might end up going on a killing spree. If you sell it to a merchant, they'll probably turn around and sell it to some other poor schmuck and, next thing you know, crazy guy on a killing spree. You could hide it somewhere, stuff it in a chest in a dungeon or drop it in the wilderness, but sooner or later someone's probably going to stumble upon it. In my current game I'm still carting that thing around, not because I'm going to use it, but because it seems like the only way to make sure other people don't use it. And even then, once Irenicus captures you and disposes of most of your stuff, it'll still end up in Smaulev Orcslicer's hands by the time you break out.

 

It would make sense for the Cowled Wizards to have some sort of "Hazardous Magic Disposal" system in place for these sorts of items, and Valerie is exactly the sort of person who would direct you towards it if you found some item that's not safe to leave in circulation. Considering how much fewer in number cursed items are in BG2 compared to BG1 (and most of them are of the "useful item with an unfortunate side-effect" brand as opposed to "dangerous to the user and potentially everyone around them), you wouldn't even have to take very many into account when setting up what could be turned in for disposal.

[Tempest]

Eh. It would make sense, I suppose, but I don't really see the need for it. Not to mention that Valerie can end up on... iffy... terms with the Cowled Wizards in BG2.

[Beetle]

You've mentioned that Valerie's relationship with a cleric can be iffy depending on which god the cleric worships. Will there be similar issues with a paladin?

[Tempest]

To a much lesser degree. Chiefly, Valerie has problems if an otherwise good Charname serves a non-good deity. Some neutral deities, like Oghma, Kelemvor, and Azuth, she's just fine with. However, a paladin can potentially end the romance at the big class talk if they serve Helm, Hoar, or Siamorphe. Of the other neutral deities a paladin can potentially serve, she's fine with Kelemvor, Azuth, Jergal (she'll ask who the heck Jergal is, though), the Red Knight, or Savras.

 

Clerics have a tougher time - Valerie can potentially terminate the relationship with a cleric of Tempus, Leira, Finder Wyvernspur, Hoar, or Siamorphe. And a neutral cleric PC who serves an evil deity will immediately end the relationship, as will a good cleric of Garagos.

 

Sorry for not posting much progress. Real life's been fairly busy. I'll post a progress report later today.

[Beetle]

Thanks for the response. I should've asked about rangers at the same time - will there be a similar conversation for them, or is it safe to assume that a PC ranger is a follower of Mielikki?

 

Good to see there's been progess, but don't worry about the lack of posting. Real life is like that sometimes...

[Tempest]

Completely forgot about rangers. I'm not sure the conversation will go that direction with rangers, though - rangers in BG2 are restricted to good alignment, and the only nature deities Valerie finds objectionable are evil.

 

It will come up in a major class based lovetalk, talking about plans for the future. If Charname is a cleric, paladin, or druid, Valerie isn't certain if Charname's duties and responsibilities to her deity are compatible with her own agenda and plans. There are ways to terminate the relationship for other classes - mage PCs can suggest an interest in pursuing lichdom, for example, which will make Valerie recoil hard - but I felt this was an important-ish distinction to make, particularly given that Valerie has problems with Ajantis in BG1 and Anomen in BG2 over their dedication to Helm due to the problems Valerie has with that faith.

 

And, honestly, we'll see if I can live up to my plans for this talk or not. It's huge and messy, and going into this much detail for clerics may be overkill.

[Tempest]

Tossing this out to see if there are any strong feelings about this:

 

I've changed my plans, and the big class-specific lovetalk now, for religious-class Charnames, is about something other than what deity Charname serves. Instead, I'm tentatively making that its own special lovetalk for the appropriate classes that occurs during the friendship phase. What I've currently written of the lovetalk makes it a big minefield for potentially ending the relationship before it starts - Valerie rejects any philosophical notion of balance or a natural order in the druidic sense of both concepts, instantly terminates the relationship if Charname serves an evil deity, and clerics of neutral deities will, with a few exceptions, need to be careful about how they view their service.

 

My concern at this point is that I'm not sure this lovetalk idea really adds anything. Could add some flavor and detail for those interested in playing a paladin/cleric/druid Charname and getting into who exactly she serves and why, but for anyone else it's a minefield that doesn't add much.

 

Any strong feelings one way or another?

[The Imp]

Any strong feelings one way or another?

Well, there's a few facts... the modified game is kinda a little too big to actually generalize this task a bit... there's quite a lot of paladin/cleric/druid kits... and then there's the fact that you have to make each and everyone of those love talks... hehhehhe.
 
And about the romantic minefields, you could make the whole romance have less of a dramatic event by creating it from the friendship, with a variable that get's an increased and decreased as the story goes on, this has the effect of making it little more subtle.

[Tempest]

As currently done, the lovetalk has Valerie ask Charname what kind of deity he or she worships - good, neutral, evil, the racial pantheons for the appropriate races, or druids can say they serve nature as a whole. From the alignment options, the deities of that moral alignment are listed, or the racial pantheons as appropriate.

 

There already is an interest variable that's necessary to trigger the romance, but it's simple and player-initiated flirts are an infinite supply of interest points so you can simply flirt with her a lot to trigger the romance if you otherwise meet her requirements. However, I'm very firm in Valerie terminating the romance with any Charname who serves an evil deity, and fairly confident that Valerie would refuse a relationship with someone whose ideals differ significantly from hers.

 

I'm just thinking this lovetalk may be more trouble than its worth, especially considering there's another class-specific lovetalk for all classes later on in the actual romance.

 

Writing this has been illuminating so far. Valerie's idealistic to the point of arrogance - she explicitly rejects any notion of balance, a natural order of things, suffering being a necessary part of life, and similar sentiments. Forging a world free from evil, free from suffering and disasters and plague, is difficult to almost the point of impossibility. Almost, but not quite.

 

Fair warning: Valerie has eight planned and sketched-out epilogues. Her idealism, and the drive to make her ideals happen, will end badly for her in at least one epilogue...

[Tempest]

Sorry for taking so long to reply! Work has been crazy lately.

 

Valerie is not currently compatible with Level 1 NPCs due to the fact that the notion of wanting to use that mod with Valerie never occurred to me, and Level 1 NPCs' readme does not include Valerie in its list of compatible mod NPCs. Due to the structure of Level 1 NPCs, I would need to provide that mod's authors with Valerie's relevant code and wait for them to update it.

 

That said, I'll send the requisite information this weekend. No reason not to, it just never occurred to me.

[Tempest]

The server reset wiped all of the updates, but I think I've reposted everything and gotten current info up to date - Valerie is fully written and mostly coded, and another modder is finishing up the coding. Please use this thread for any general discussion now that Valerie's finally all sorted out.