1123 replies to this topic

[Bartimaeus]

I'm kind of already disappointed with them saying they're going to create new content...graphics overhaul? Fine. Bug fixes? Fine. Some minor tweaks? Also fine. Additional content, potentially including party members? Not good. Not good at all. I've a hard time believing that any developer can create new content that's true to the spirit of the game and fits in nicely twelve years after the fact, much as I've a hard time liking any additional content created by anyone whatsoever.

Here's hoping they don't tack on any mods that aren't purely fix mods.

[Miloch]

I'm quite surprised to see many of you worry so much about BGEE... If nothing else, it is a great opportunity to breathe new life into the BG saga. You may say a game that's still being played after 12 years doesn't really need any new life, and I'd agree to an extent, but I believe BG can never have too many fans. If the re-release brought more people's attention back to the game, all the better. Besides, buying and playing BGEE is optional, just like the additional contents they're working on, so...

Anyone who mods or plays this game has to be in favour of any efforts to revive it. Even if they just slap a new label on it and resell it with the only change being a slick marketing blurb... well, I say, let them. I've come across few games that compare to BG in complexity... certainly few modern ones do.

Now I'll only be really impressed if they actually get BG1 animations working in the BG2 engine, dual-wielding and all (as will you, Andrea, I'm sure ). That would be awesome, as anyone who's loaded up a mage in BG1 vs. BGT/Tutu can attest. The BG1 engine's character animations were way better than BG2's. (As we know, the latter resorted to "mirroring" animations meaning you suddenly find your shield on your right arm when you turn around, whereas you'd thought it was on your left.) If it's otherwise mainly just a port of BG1 to the BG2 engine, I'd have to scratch my head a bit (being as how that's already freely available via Tutu/BGT).

[Andrea C.]

Anyone who mods or plays this game has to be in favour of any efforts to revive it. Even if they just slap a new label on it and resell it with the only change being a slick marketing blurb... well, I say, let them.

I agree. It is true that a re-release brings forth the potential for a game overhaul to make it appealing to the younger, hipster audience toward which many modern products are geared (D&D 4E being a notable example, despite the merits it may have). But with conversion to 3D graphics and 4E rules out of the way, 80% of my worries are already vanquished I think they are sending positive signals with the intent to remain true to the spirit of the game AND support the modding community as much as possible. They're even trying to keep the savegame format so that games can be ported seamlessly from the older version to the new one and viceversa: how's that for user friendly?

Besides, as I said, we still own our copies of the older games (which can be fetched cheap from GoG.com in case someone's missed something along the way), so even if BGEE turned out to be a hipster marketing operation, no one would be forcing us to play it

Now I'll only be really impressed if they actually get BG1 animations working in the BG2 engine, dual-wielding and all (as will you, Andrea, I'm sure ).

That is actually the first thing I asked Trent via his twitter account, but he's been systematically ignoring my questions. Either there is something wrong with my newly created twitter account (Trent isn't the only one who ignored me), or he really doesn't want to disclose anything about this. Then again, every time someone asked something he didn't want to answer, he'd say so explicitly. Regardless, next week he said there would be screenshots so we'll see I surely hope for some homogeneity among the titles: there were notable stylistic differences among BG1+TotsC, BG2 and ToB, with the latter being the worst, most cartoonish looking. To do some real justice to this game, they should extend BG1+TotsC style to the whole saga, and reprise Daniel Walker's original paperdolls and animations with dual-wielding support (otherwise I'll have to do it myself, either for the original or enhanced version of the game - but since they're getting paid to do that all day and I don't, it would be better if they did LOL).

Edited by Andrea C., 18 March 2012 - 02:34 AM.

[Yovaneth]

Back in the old days I recall the devs saying that using the tools that the community made were far easier to use than the jumbled mess that they had to work with in the game.

I remember that too - it was either Chris Avellone or David gaider that said it. Regarding rotateable models: I can't remember why but while creating FFT, I came to the conclusion that all objects in the IE series were created and rotated in 3DS, exported as bitmaps, then cut out (in some cases, rather badly - especially trees and bushes) and plastered onto the background.

-Y-

[Wisp]

If it's otherwise mainly just a port of BG1 to the BG2 engine, I'd have to scratch my head a bit (being as how that's already freely available via Tutu/BGT).

Personally, I would welcome an engine conversion of BG1 that did not require mods. Though I imagine it may well wreak havoc on our current platform checks.
But presumably they are doing it so they can release both BG1 and BG2 while only needing to work with a single code base.

Edited by Wisp, 18 March 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[cmorgan]

I'm cautiously optimistic. Ijust wish someone would win the lottery and hand the bigg and Ascension64 $1.2 million USD. Oh, and track down Wes Weimer and hand him the same. Lots more on that list, too, but start with the people who are still, to this very day, starting from way way back in the day, or even before "the day", spearheading making the game more accessible/fixable/changeable for modders and players.

Or just hire them. I know they do it for love of the game and the technical challenge, but seriously, who couldn't do with both the praise and the cash?

[Zireael]

Now I'll only be really impressed if they actually get BG1 animations working in the BG2 engine, dual-wielding and all (as will you, Andrea, I'm sure ).

I'd be impressed, too.

If it's otherwise mainly just a port of BG1 to the BG2 engine, I'd have to scratch my head a bit (being as how that's already freely available via Tutu/BGT).

Personally, I would welcome an engine conversion of BG1 that did not require mods. Though I imagine it may well wreak havoc on our current platform checks.
But presumably they are doing it so they can release both BG1 and BG2 while only needing to work with a single code base.

I agree with Wisp.

[Andrea C.]

Personally, I would welcome an engine conversion of BG1 that did not require mods.

+1. I love mods, and I especially love modders for their work, but I dream of the day when I won't have to install three to five mods just to make IE games look good by my standard. If they released BG1+TotSC with native support for widescreen resolutions, hardware acceleration, and original-style paperdolls and animations my installations would end up being a lot cleaner (as in, less mods in the pile)

[Zireael]

Personally, I would welcome an engine conversion of BG1 that did not require mods.

+1. I love mods, and I especially love modders for their work, but I dream of the day when I won't have to install three to five mods just to make IE games look good by my standard. If they released BG1+TotSC with native support for widescreen resolutions, hardware acceleration, and original-style paperdolls and animations my installations would end up being a lot cleaner (as in, less mods in the pile)

+1. Definitely true.

[William Imm]

Personally, I would welcome an engine conversion of BG1 that did not require mods.

+1. Bonus points if it links to BG2 when it's installed together.

[Daxs]

I hope the engine becomes much more editable with little to no 'hard coding' limitations. Dual Class druid/bard ahoy!

[Maanape]

I think an enhanced edition would kill many mods out there, like the fixpacks and Unfinished Business'. Also re-releasing BG1 with the engine of ToB would make BGT and Tutu useless, and the bugfixes would eliminate TobEx. Any graphic overhaul should make not only Widescreen, but 1PP dwarven females and Thieve's Galore unnecessary. Maybe they could do better with the paperdolls and avatars, and make better work with the priest classes, as did the Divine Remix mod. The majority of mods deals with quests, romances and NPCs, and I think this could remain unchanged, while the others that had to do with bugfixes or unimplemented functionality can be officially adressed or developed now. Regarding the new stuff they are planning, I hope it includes something like the Macholy's mods (non-combat proficiences and such), combat enhancement (mounted combat for paladins, druids, rangers), better treatment of certain gaming aspects e.g. the ones that can make the spells dealing with light and darkness somewhat useful (as well as being a diviner mage), use of torches, interaction with the environment (bending bars, wizard lock, and such), and a whole amount of new spells to make available to both players and monsters. The Relationship mod, if turned official, can virtually turn any monster or person into a party member: this could expand the possibilities of party combinations to boundaries never imagined before - without breaking any mod. Well, I can think of many ways this BGEE can be a good thing, doing things the mods can't, because programming for the old games is limited to what their engine allows to do. What I expect as new stuff is something out of the box, without messing with what is within. This, with a proper toolset that allows the community to access the features, would certainly be the thing all of us were expecting,and in fact this lack was the cause that led to much of what was done.

[phordicus]

Or just hire them. I know they do it for love of the game and the technical challenge, but seriously, who couldn't do with both the praise and the cash?

I'm not trying to hurt their employability, but you don't think having Atari/WotC calling the shots would make a difference? All it took for BW to start sucking was selling out to EA.

[Zireael]

I think an enhanced edition would kill many mods out there, like the fixpacks and Unfinished Business'. Also re-releasing BG1 with the engine of ToB would make BGT and Tutu useless, and the bugfixes would eliminate TobEx. Any graphic overhaul should make not only Widescreen, but 1PP dwarven females and Thieve's Galore unnecessary. Maybe they could do better with the paperdolls and avatars, and make better work with the priest classes, as did the Divine Remix mod. The majority of mods deals with quests, romances and NPCs, and I think this could remain unchanged, while the others that had to do with bugfixes or unimplemented functionality can be officially adressed or developed now. Regarding the new stuff they are planning, I hope it includes something like the Macholy's mods (non-combat proficiences and such), combat enhancement (mounted combat for paladins, druids, rangers), better treatment of certain gaming aspects e.g. the ones that can make the spells dealing with light and darkness somewhat useful (as well as being a diviner mage), use of torches, interaction with the environment (bending bars, wizard lock, and such), and a whole amount of new spells to make available to both players and monsters. The Relationship mod, if turned official, can virtually turn any monster or person into a party member: this could expand the possibilities of party combinations to boundaries never imagined before - without breaking any mod. Well, I can think of many ways this BGEE can be a good thing, doing things the mods can't, because programming for the old games is limited to what their engine allows to do. What I expect as new stuff is something out of the box, without messing with what is within. This, with a proper toolset that allows the community to access the features, would certainly be the thing all of us were expecting,and in fact this lack was the cause that led to much of what was done.

Invalidating ToBEx or TuTu or BGT or graphical tweaks is not a bad thing. It is a good thing. The less mods one has installed, the lesser chance something screws up. So if we'll be able to get the same result with BG EE without those 3 or 4 mods, it'll be brilliant. Since it'll allow us to play our favorite NPC/class/whatever mod without worrying about graphics or engine or plot connection...

[GeN1e]

Invalidating ToBEx or TuTu or BGT or graphical tweaks is not a bad thing. It is a good thing. The less mods one has installed, the lesser chance something screws up.

I agree. Those mods aren't as much new content as they are improvements of the original engine. Basically, things that original developers should (ideally) have done but didn't.

[Miloch]

Invalidating ToBEx or TuTu or BGT or graphical tweaks is not a bad thing. It is a good thing. The less mods one has installed, the lesser chance something screws up.

I agree. Those mods aren't as much new content as they are improvements of the original engine. Basically, things that original developers should (ideally) have done but didn't.

I don't think installing BGT/Tutu is going to increase the chance of hosing your game, but in fact the reverse. BGT and Tutu already have a number of fixes incorporated in them, accumulated over the years. Will a re-released game have the same level of fixes? Hard to say, but it would be difficult for a software company with a number of other of projects to have addressed that, whereas a freelance development community has had years to do it. In some cases, those fixes aren't even apparent, nor could be easily reapplied to a port of the original game. This is true for both Tutu and BGT fixes, since they both rename vanilla resources (rather radically in some cases).

On the other hand, a number of graphic elements (character animations in particular, as I've mentioned) were better in BG1. So a best-case scenario would be the improvements of the ToB engine without sacrificing graphical elements. But frankly, I think that's a bit of a pie in the sky thing to hope for, like a number of other wishes expressed here. Not being pessimistic, just realistic.

[Archmage Silver]

Cameron Tofer was interview at GameSpy regarding the Enhanced Edition and future plans for Baldur's Gate 3 Kickstarter initiative.

[Andrea C.]

Will a re-released game have the same level of fixes? Hard to say, but it would be difficult for a software company with a number of other of projects to have addressed that, whereas a freelance development community has had years to do it. In some cases, those fixes aren't even apparent, nor could be easily reapplied to a port of the original game. This is true for both Tutu and BGT fixes, since they both rename vanilla resources (rather radically in some cases).

True, but it is also true that the team of developers is actually being paid to do just that all day, it's their job and they work with the source code - basically, it's within their power to not only fix bugs, but even completely overhaul whatever caused them in the first place. In fact, there is virtually no limit to what they can do with the engine. Besides, they seem to be well acquainted with mods and the modding community: I don't think it would take them too much to download Tutu/BGT and check out the relative bugfixes. If modders could identify and fix those bugs, all the more reason why the game developers could and should

Edited by Andrea C., 20 March 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[phordicus]

So basically they're nothing more than corporate-sanctioned modders who will charge money for "fixes" and content of unknown quality.

This gets more ridiculous the further it goes on. Want to support the mod community? Release the source code. Want to make BG3? Then make BG3 without all this other unnecessary bullshit.

[Archmage Silver]

So basically they're nothing more than corporate-sanctioned modders who will charge money for "fixes" and content of unknown quality.

This gets more ridiculous the further it goes on. Want to support the mod community? Release the source code. Want to make BG3? Then make BG3 without all this other unnecessary bullshit.

Originally BioWare just decided to let people do whatever they wanted with the original BG games - that's not going to change now, even with EA in charge, so I don't see any problem here. You say it's bull, but some of use would actually like to see the improvements that can be made with the Enhanced Edition.

As for releasing the source code? Electronic Arts? Release IE source code? Riiight...