1123 replies to this topic

[Aranthys]

'Grunker', on 06 Dec 2012 - 09:37, said:

'Yovaneth', on 06 Dec 2012 - 09:24, said:

'Daulmakan', on 05 Dec 2012 - 22:22, said:

Considering they failed to pass Apple's approval test, wouldn't that make BG:EE even more of a blunder?

No. Apple's approval's procedure is known to be arbitrary at best and downright impenetrable at worst. It's also a closed shop with no real detail as to how to get your app to pass their 'approval'. Apps are rejected for no good reason without reason and without explanation.

-Y-

I guess the game not being able to function on most Apple computers is an arbitrary explanation to you, then?

Isn't there two different approval procedures, one for the mobile devices (iTunes / Apple Store) and one for the Apple Computers ?

[Zireael]

'Cuv', on 05 Dec 2012 - 21:40, said:

How about we lighten the mood over here with a video of Gorion winning(almost).

http://www.youtube.c...e&v=_XVPjj78LVU

My apologies for the crappy quality of the video.

This is brilliant! Who did he use Imprison on? Tamoko?

Addendum: 20 bucks is quite a high price for some countries, not to mention there's no CD version so far and I'd have to pay A LOT to download 1,8 GB...

[Aranthys]

'Zireael', on 06 Dec 2012 - 10:39, said:

Addendum: 20 bucks is quite a high price for some countries, not to mention there's no CD version so far and I'd have to pay A LOT to download 1,8 GB...

That's true, 20 bucks is a somewhat high price for some countries, but It's not like BG:EE is the only game with this pricing model, so the point is pretty moot.

If money is really a problem, there's other games one can play (Steam has a lot of cheap, AAA titles, especially during this period of the year) or you can buy GoG's regular version.

[Cuv]

@Zireael Thanks:D Imprisonment is in the game. Most of the high level spells are in there... some are not. Gorion also casts a custom spell I made called 'Bigby's Forceful Hand', that is the pushback you see before he slips on his own grease spell Was thinking of actually making that spell available. It would be somewhere around level 5.

[Daulmakan]

'Yovaneth', on 06 Dec 2012 - 09:24, said:

'Daulmakan', on 05 Dec 2012 - 22:22, said:

Considering they failed to pass Apple's approval test, wouldn't that make BG:EE even more of a blunder?

No. Apple's approval's procedure is known to be arbitrary at best and downright impenetrable at worst. It's also a closed shop with no real detail as to how to get your app to pass their 'approval'. Apps are rejected for no good reason without reason and without explanation.

I don't necessarily disagree with all that, but it's the same thing I pointed to Ardanis. All of that was kwown from the start when Beamdog set up to port BG to it (I even hit the bullseye in my early hunch about it). They knew what they were up to, and didn't measure up to standards. Without the port to iPad, Beamdog's initiative wouldn't have happened in the first place. Thus, I think it's indicative of the quality of their performance that their main goal failed to succeed (a goal in which they didn't have previous modders' work to make use of, to boot).

[Yovaneth]

'Daulmakan', on 06 Dec 2012 - 23:57, said:

I don't necessarily disagree with all that, but it's the same thing I pointed to Ardanis. All of that was kwown from the start when Beamdog set up to port BG to it (I even hit the bullseye in my early hunch about it). They knew what they were up to, and didn't measure up to standards.

If - as is known with Apple and you agree - the standards keep moving arbitrarily, how can you measure up to something that has no definition for you to aim at?

As an aside (and this not aimed at you, Daulmakan, or anybody else - I'm just taking the opportunity to say this), I sometimes get very frustrated with this type of comment for two reasons. One is the shot I took at Phordicus regarding game development per se (didn't I just lose the cool there!!) and my involvement in both indie and mainline games and the other is my full time job. I work for a company that writes software which itself tests other software i.e. some quite serious QA. My job as a senior engineer is to help client companies nail bugs. The point is, what you apparently see on the surface is never the full story - think iceberg.

-Y-

[Daulmakan]

'Yovaneth', on 07 Dec 2012 - 09:39, said:

'Daulmakan', on 06 Dec 2012 - 23:57, said:

I don't necessarily disagree with all that, but it's the same thing I pointed to Ardanis. All of that was kwown from the start when Beamdog set up to port BG to it (I even hit the bullseye in my early hunch about it). They knew what they were up to, and didn't measure up to standards.

If - as is known with Apple and you agree - the standards keep moving arbitrarily, how can you measure up to something that has no definition for you to aim at?

Even given the mutable state, there must be some kind of ground base, otherwise no one would even try making apps for apple, including Beamdog. For starters, a way to measure up would be to actually test the thing before releasing it. Not with a couple of PCs, I mean actual testing. Gamebreaking bugs reported upon first day of re-release of a 14 year old game is a craptastic way of going about it. On the whole, since it was too much for them to handle, they bit more than they could chew. If they did it unconsciously, then they are very poor self evaluators and/or their work is low quality. If they did it knowingly (AKA to cash in with minimum amount of work), it's just despicable. Either way, I don't want this guys anywhere near an hypothetical BG3, and I fear any chance of that happening has been damaged by this initiative. A shame, really, I'd LOVE to see another IE game with similar scope/content (not a continuation of the bhaalspawn saga, though, that's over).

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The point is, what you apparently see on the surface is never the full story - think iceberg.

One cannot express one's opinion on a game release (and cannot be asked not to) based upon undisclosed hypotheticals.

[Grunker]

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I'd LOVE to see another IE game

Let's hope P:E will satisfy us.

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One cannot express one's opinion on a game release (and cannot be asked not to) based upon undisclosed hypotheticals.

It's just the usual strawman. "You couldn't possibly know the complexity, so you cannot possibly comment." Basically the reverse version of Appeal to Complexity ("I understand this, so you can't.")

[Yovaneth]

'Grunker', on 07 Dec 2012 - 22:52, said:

It's just the usual strawman. "You couldn't possibly know the complexity, so you cannot possibly comment." Basically the reverse version of Appeal to Complexity ("I understand this, so you can't.")

I spent many hours beta testing the game and I still have no idea what complexity lies behind the effort that went into creating the various versions, so I don't comment on what I don't know about. I very rarely have done and I very rarely will do - I really do prefer to know what I'm talking about before opening my mouth.

I build a good straw man, eh?

-Y-

[Archmage Silver]

I knew I should have worked harder on my automatic sprinkler system pitch at the last forum board meeting... oh, well. At least the world isn't on fire yet. Not ours anyway, not so sure about the fair city of Baldur's Gate.

[Grunker]

'Archmage Silver', on 08 Dec 2012 - 12:30, said:

I knew I should have worked harder on my automatic sprinkler system pitch at the last forum board meeting... oh, well. At least the world isn't on fire yet. Not ours anyway, not so sure about the fair city of Baldur's Gate.

There is a fine line between vehemently disagreeing and flaming, I guess, but it's been a long time since I've been here, so I don't recall where you guys draw that line.

And by the way Silver, I was sooooo wrong about ToEE. I was a wee lad without a fine-tuned appreciation of beauty.

Edited by Grunker, 08 December 2012 - 04:57 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

'Grunker', on 08 Dec 2012 - 12:56, said:

'Archmage Silver', on 08 Dec 2012 - 12:30, said:

I knew I should have worked harder on my automatic sprinkler system pitch at the last forum board meeting... oh, well. At least the world isn't on fire yet. Not ours anyway, not so sure about the fair city of Baldur's Gate.

There is a fine line between vehemently disagreeing and flaming, I guess, but it's been a long time since I've been here, so I don't recall where you guys draw that line.

And by the way Silver, I was sooooo wrong about ToEE. I was a wee lad without a fine-tuned appreciation of beauty.

ToEE is a nice game.

I think I should replay it with the latest Circle of Eight release.

[Aranthys]

Fourth patch in about a week has been released today.
Game gets better and better

[Yovaneth]

'Grunker', on 08 Dec 2012 - 12:56, said:

There is a fine line between vehemently disagreeing and flaming, I guess, but it's been a long time since I've been here, so I don't recall where you guys draw that line.

We were nowhere near a flamewar. That takes far more effort than I'm willing to put in!

-Y-

[Archmage Silver]

'Yovaneth', on 08 Dec 2012 - 21:44, said:

'Grunker', on 08 Dec 2012 - 12:56, said:

There is a fine line between vehemently disagreeing and flaming, I guess, but it's been a long time since I've been here, so I don't recall where you guys draw that line.

We were nowhere near a flamewar. That takes far more effort than I'm willing to put in!

-Y-

Yeah, ever since you retired from modding you've become lazier by the day.

[Yovaneth]

Actually that tagline has been a lie for quite some time but I'm way too lazy to both mod and change that. I had a huge mod ready to go for BG:EE (two actually, if you count the one that I'm currently too lazy to finish) but regretably, the change in the tileset format has stopped it dead. Avenger_teambg is on the problem but it's not easily fixed.

-Y-

[Archmage Silver]

Why did they change the tileset format? I was under the impression that the only thing you could improve there was compression ratio.

[Vicen]

'Aranthys', on 08 Dec 2012 - 18:49, said:

Fourth patch in about a week has been released today.
Game gets better and better

Impressive they are actually getting them out so fast...When all is said and done, count on me to buy a copy for sure!

[Yovaneth]

'Archmage Silver', on 09 Dec 2012 - 01:06, said:

Why did they change the tileset format? I was under the impression that the only thing you could improve there was compression ratio.

Don't really know. There had to be a very good reason though because you don't put that much effort into such a major change without a good reason.

-Y-

[phordicus]

Thanks for taking it in stride. Announcing intention of devil's advocacy severely undercuts its efficacy, and this medium is too prone to letting people mistranslate in their favor already.

It's good to get some hard data on the engine changes finally. It looks like there's hope for some things to be unlocked/externalized, but it also looks like it will be many, many months away, and likely more of a modder's work (again) but with some help/info from Beamdog. That sound about right?

Edited by phordicus, 10 December 2012 - 04:38 AM.