BG:EE doesn't support any integrated Intel graphics chips. Also it's impossible to fix it. Neat!
Comments on BGEE & BG2EE News
Started by Bluenose, Feb 22 2012 04:49 AM
1123 replies to this topic
#841
Almateria
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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:56 AM
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#842
Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:40 AM
Im sure a lot of the initial release bugs will be fixed. I bought BGEE to support the future development of the engine - be that an enhanced BG2, BG3 or other infinity engine games. Having an active developer who has access to the engine source code and has been able to give back to the community some missing info in relation to the file formats can only be a good thing for modders i believe. Once BGEE has matured and fixes implemented we will have a nice base starting point to go forward with - i dont relish installing BG2 vanilla, installing various weidu tweaks, npcs, quests and other stuff only to find out when i run it, that something wasnt compatible or in the wrong install order, which requires reinstallation and fresh start - id rather have a version that all the ground work is done, which is what i think we will have.
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#843
Jarno Mikkola
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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:25 PM
Yeah, but it won't be coming from the BGEE's direction, but from the community itself... BWS:The Extended Edition.- id rather have a version that all the ground work is done, which is what i think we will have.
PS: If my info is correct, the old BG2 engine is actually abandoned by this project, because it was unrecoverable.
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#844
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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:53 PM
I think the project had serious problems from the beginning. Reading between the lines it is pretty obvious they signed a deal whereby they were not permitted to change anything about the original game other than the graphics(hence why the UI, cutscenes and 1PP are in, but no new ai, updated original NPCs etc are). This was probably perfect for them, given that they had just done a HD version of MDK. However, they soon found that they couldn't get access to the source art and didn't have the time or skill to re-do it from scratch.
At this point I think they might have been better just calling the project off. However they decided to carry on and seemingly most of the six month development time was spent tinkering with the UI, adding a small amount of extra content and adding features already available with mods. To us it may seem those things were not particularly worthwhile, but I think they were just doing whatever they could to justify a new release. I have no idea what they will do with BG2:EE. For BG1 I suppose you can just about get away with redo-ing the UI, even though just a few updates would be sufficient. Would anyone honestly pay $20 for a redone version of the perfectly fine BG2 UI?
The first danger sign for me was when they spent the first month announcing team members on their site. This isn't a movie. Who is involved is not a newsworthy announcement 4 weeks in a row. To me it was telling me they didn't have real features, screenshots or videos to disclose. And then there was the DRM slapped on to a game that didn't have it before, the promise of DLC and a digital only release(and a Beamdog exclusive at that). Not good signs.
My advice to Beamdog (not that they would be interested
) would be to take a step back, and think hard about whether they can improve on the original BG2 before embarking on BG2:EE. Considering the strength of the writing, art, atmosphere and gameplay it would take something special to add content that didn't detract from what is already there. I think it is always hard to go back to something you did a long time ago, when you are no longer in the same 'zone' and genuinely improve it. George Lucas is a classic example of this. And in the BG:EE case they are probably missing the key members of the original team.
At this point I think they might have been better just calling the project off. However they decided to carry on and seemingly most of the six month development time was spent tinkering with the UI, adding a small amount of extra content and adding features already available with mods. To us it may seem those things were not particularly worthwhile, but I think they were just doing whatever they could to justify a new release. I have no idea what they will do with BG2:EE. For BG1 I suppose you can just about get away with redo-ing the UI, even though just a few updates would be sufficient. Would anyone honestly pay $20 for a redone version of the perfectly fine BG2 UI?
The first danger sign for me was when they spent the first month announcing team members on their site. This isn't a movie. Who is involved is not a newsworthy announcement 4 weeks in a row. To me it was telling me they didn't have real features, screenshots or videos to disclose. And then there was the DRM slapped on to a game that didn't have it before, the promise of DLC and a digital only release(and a Beamdog exclusive at that). Not good signs.
My advice to Beamdog (not that they would be interested
) would be to take a step back, and think hard about whether they can improve on the original BG2 before embarking on BG2:EE. Considering the strength of the writing, art, atmosphere and gameplay it would take something special to add content that didn't detract from what is already there. I think it is always hard to go back to something you did a long time ago, when you are no longer in the same 'zone' and genuinely improve it. George Lucas is a classic example of this. And in the BG:EE case they are probably missing the key members of the original team.
#845
Bartimaeus
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Drama Queen
Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:37 AM
I feel as though that, for a game that has occupied modders for over ten years in fixing bugs, less time should've been spent on adding new content, and more time fixing and updating old content, (bugs, maybe the GUI...too bad they went with a weird blue color, which doesn't really suit the tone of the game at all...), and then adding new features, (like the zoom ability - but actually, you know, working consistently)...not new content that mostly doesn't fit in with the original. Why new areas, NPCs, items, and quests? I don't even generally like these things in mods, much less having them forced down my throat in the real game - a "new" version of the real game, a new version created by hardly anyone, (no-one?), involved in the original version.
But hey, whatever, I guess. Make new party members whose content sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the original, instead of focusing time on fixing things the modding community has fixed "unofficially" over the past thirteen-fourteen years. I guess it doesn't matter, since those modders will probably take it out of their time to fix it all again, since you wasted yours...
But hey, whatever, I guess. Make new party members whose content sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the original, instead of focusing time on fixing things the modding community has fixed "unofficially" over the past thirteen-fourteen years. I guess it doesn't matter, since those modders will probably take it out of their time to fix it all again, since you wasted yours...
#846
Grunker
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Prince Charming
Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:00 AM
GameBanshee review is out: http://gamebanshee.c...ion-review.html
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."
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#847
Autar
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:01 AM
I just tested it for 10 minutes. My biggest complaint is how they implemented the kits. Ist both heavily bugged and inbalaced. You should really try the summonds of the totemic druid their ridicously overpowerd.
My English is very poor. Italian is my mother language and I also know German very good. Be patien with me & sry for my bad English
#848
dabus
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:23 AM
ABout the kits: That's just the same way it's with BGT. So they didn't think of that or they didn't have the right to change it.
THINK! - It's not illegal.
#849
Bartimaeus
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Drama Queen
Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:26 AM
- Fleshed out NPCs already there. They could have at least done something with BG1NPC, I mean, they haven't felt above just using the work of modders before.
Firstly...thank goodness they didn't add BG1 NPC. You're right in that all the NPCs in BG1 besides the newly added ones are, in vanilla, very underdeveloped, especially in comparison to BG2. Pretty sure that the, ah, modder-made party member dialogues/quests that that mod adds is not the way to go. Indeed, I don't think there's really any way to go, except maybe to not add three additional party members that exemplifies their underdevelopedness...oops, too late! Or to get the original writers back on board...
#850
Jarno Mikkola
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:54 AM
My opinion on that is that they saw people having much more, and better revisions of the kits and didn't want to put the dollars into reproduce them and risk getting sued ...ABout the kits: That's just the same way it's with BGT. So they didn't think of that or they didn't have the right to change it.
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#851
Yovaneth
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:51 AM
Hasn't it occurred to you that the problem is at Intel's door for releasing a graphics chipset that is incompatible with most of the stuff that nVidia and ATi can run? How can that be Overhaul's fault? The last two commercial projects I've produced graphics for don't work with the Intel integrated graphics chipset either because it can't handle OpenGL properly - is it my fault because I can't downgrade my graphics code to work with a non-compatible chipset?BG:EE doesn't support any integrated Intel graphics chips. Also it's impossible to fix it. Neat!
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Edited by Yovaneth, 02 December 2012 - 10:56 AM.
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#852
Western Paladin
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:56 AM
I'm really surprised how reactionary a lot of the long-standing BG community has turned out to be (not just talking about this thread, either).
"Peace will come, but whether born of harmony or entropy I cannot say."
-- Oracle en-Vec
#853
Tempest
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:19 AM
It's a disappointing "update" to a beloved old game that adds little not already covered by mods and is plagued by technical problems. There's a difference between simply being reactionary and giving the new game its fair chance and finding it wanting.
"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
#854
Bartimaeus
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Drama Queen
Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:25 PM
I'm really surprised how reactionary a lot of the long-standing BG community has turned out to be (not just talking about this thread, either).
I am honestly not too unhappy, just disappointed. The problems will likely be fixed, (whether officially or unofficially), any additional content updated and balanced, and the most important mods will be updated to work with it...and maybe new things will pop up, what with the hardcoded stuff supposedly being unhardcoded, (nothing I would know about). I do hope they at least do BG2:EE, and also hope they learn from what went wrong here. I still will never like the fact that they added new party members to a 14 year old game, (though, I admit, I'm not really giving them a chance...), but hey, not a big deal. It's also not too big of a deal that I don't like a few of the cinematics, (some of them are good, like the flooded mine one). I am hoping they can fix some of the real problems fast enough so that they'll have enough of an audience for future EEs - particularly if it means I can have those nifty helmet sprites/paperdolls from BG:EE in BG2.
#855
Almateria
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:55 PM
It has and I know that's the reason it's not working. But yeah, it's Overhaul's fault for knowingly choosing OpenGL. Especially with their marketing about the Mac port.Hasn't it occurred to you that the problem is at Intel's door for releasing a graphics chipset that is incompatible with most of the stuff that nVidia and ATi can run? How can that be Overhaul's fault? The last two commercial projects I've produced graphics for don't work with the Intel integrated graphics chipset either because it can't handle OpenGL properly - is it my fault because I can't downgrade my graphics code to work with a non-compatible chipset?
BG:EE doesn't support any integrated Intel graphics chips. Also it's impossible to fix it. Neat!
-Y-
Because you see Macbooks use integrated graphics
Actual stuff: Almateria's Restoration Project | Icewind Dale 2 Fixpack + Restorations
Skips: Hell Recollection | Fake Import Mod
Assorted tweaks from when I was 14: Alma Tweaks (macOS)
#856
Cuv
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:50 PM
Wait what? Is this SHS or RPGCodex? All I can say is many of you had the chance to be part of the production of BG:EE and say all this stuff directly to the devs... and you didnt. I said what I could and I am quite proud of what was produced. For me, BG:EE is the new 'gold standard' for the infinity engine. Are you really having problems with your games or are you just repeating complaints that you have heard? Most of you I know and have known for a very long time... some of you are new. I just dont understand the hostility or nitpicking at all. What has happened to the BG modding community in my absence?
#857
Almateria
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:58 PM
BG:EE happened (and it's bad (that's why people are angry))
Actual stuff: Almateria's Restoration Project | Icewind Dale 2 Fixpack + Restorations
Skips: Hell Recollection | Fake Import Mod
Assorted tweaks from when I was 14: Alma Tweaks (macOS)
#858
Autar
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:04 PM
ABout the kits: That's just the same way it's with BGT. So they didn't think of that or they didn't have the right to change it.
I know that, but BGT isnt charging me 20 bucks. What disappoints me is that most of this issues would have easy fixes. I'm no modder and have little technical skills but going throught all the ".itm" files and putting the appropriate "not usable by <kit>" checkmarks is something even I could do with NI. And its not a right issue either, because they did it with some items; And for the totemic druids pets they could have changed that abilitys to start at a higher level.
My English is very poor. Italian is my mother language and I also know German very good. Be patien with me & sry for my bad English
#859
Tempest
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:06 PM
Wait what? Is this SHS or RPGCodex? All I can say is many of you had the chance to be part of the production of BG:EE and say all this stuff directly to the devs... and you didnt. I said what I could and I am quite proud of what was produced. For me, BG:EE is the new 'gold standard' for the infinity engine. Are you really having problems with your games or are you just repeating complaints that you have heard? Most of you I know and have known for a very long time... some of you are new. I just dont understand the hostility or nitpicking at all. What has happened to the BG modding community in my absence?
Some people are happy with the game. Some people are not. Both opinions are valid.
"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
#860
Kaeloree
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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:08 PM
Keep in mind that the game is being patched going forwards--so almost all of the issues described will get fixed.
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