1123 replies to this topic

[Jarno Mikkola]

Besides, it is not true that BG:EE has less enhancements than modded originals. ...but facts are facts

Yeah, especially when you get your facts wrong, they are still facts, that are the wrong facts...
See the "400 improvements" are nothing if you take into consideration what the BWS brings to the table.

[Almateria]

"400 fixes" means absolutely nothing, especially not in BG, where everything can be considered a bug. I've seen more than enough patch notes boasting about having thousand of fixes.

[Galactygon]

@Grunker - You must've missed a few posts. That map was never official, and the guy who posted it has been confirmed as an imposter. BG:EE will have a new map, but it hasn't been shown yet.

Besides, it is not true that BG:EE has less enhancements than modded originals. You could tell me that you're uninterested in what BG:EE offers over modded originals, and that would be one thing (and an okay one at that)—but facts are facts

I would buy it, even for the engine and performance enhancements that otherwise no modder has been able to do.

-Galactygon

[Aranthys]

Besides, it is not true that BG:EE has less enhancements than modded originals. ...but facts are facts

Yeah, especially when you get your facts wrong, they are still facts, that are the wrong facts...
See the "400 improvements" are nothing if you take into consideration what the BWS brings to the table.

And one day, you'll get a BWS + BGEE that's better than the current BWS.
BGEE is great in the sense that it will fix the (several) engine bugs and modernize the code, allowing better mods.
It also adds 3 NPCs and a new adventure in the process. For the low price of 10 bucks, I have trouble understanding the hate it's getting

[Almateria]

And one day, you'll get a BWS + BGEE that's better than the current BWS.
BGEE is great in the sense that it will fix the (several) engine bugs and modernize the code, allowing better mods.
It also adds 3 NPCs and a new adventure in the process. For the low price of 10 bucks, I have trouble understanding the hate it's getting

Let me point you to various sections of the SHS Downloads section. 20 NPCs and 19 quests for the low price of 0$. The bigger adventures are out there on other sites.
Also, does "modernize the code" mean anything but "port to IEv.BG2"? We already have BGT for that. And 20$ can buy you an actually good game that's not a cash grab.

BGEEthreadcycle.txt

Edited by Almateria, 18 November 2012 - 06:01 AM.

[Aranthys]

And one day, you'll get a BWS + BGEE that's better than the current BWS.
BGEE is great in the sense that it will fix the (several) engine bugs and modernize the code, allowing better mods.
It also adds 3 NPCs and a new adventure in the process. For the low price of 10 bucks, I have trouble understanding the hate it's getting

Let me point you to various sections of the SHS Downloads section. 20 NPCs and 19 quests for the low price of 0$. The bigger adventures are out there on other sites.
Also, does "modernize the code" mean anything but "port to IEv.BG2"? We already have BGT for that. And 20$ can buy you an actually good game that's not a cash grab.

BGEEthreadcycle.txt

Sorry, but for 20 bucks, I'll take both the BG2 engine port + core engine fixes/improvements + additional content AND the 20 NPC, 19 quests from SHS (and every other mod out there).
And I'll support the devs to ensure we get to see additional, genuine & balanced content.

Now, you don't find this to be worthfile, that's fine. But to a lot of us, it is. Because we'll finally get to see improvements through code & patches rather than through hacks & countless fixpacks that sometimes provide wonky solutions to controversial bugs. (No ill will to the authors of the fixpacks there, they did what they could with what the engine allowed)

Edit.: Not to mention the chance to one day see "Planescape torment : EE" see the light of the day.

Edited by Aranthys, 18 November 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[Eleima]

I'm still on the fence whether to get this or not, since I have so many other games in my "pile", but I will add one thing to what Aranthys said. The thing about BG:EE is also that it's "hassle free". What I mean by that is that you buy it, install it, and it works. Playing BG nowadays has become time consuming and can give you a few headaches if you're not careful: installing this mod or not, minding the mod order, keeping your strings in order, etc. It's by no means impossible, but damned inconvenient sometimes.

[Suslik]

Almateria

The first one is bad, the second's too short to actually lead anywhere, and the third could as well be pulled from stockfantasymusic.com

Made me laugh quite hard especially after that comment on wyvern location.

Andrea C.
Maybe it's just my habit, but I find the first track(which is from BG1) to be more enjoyable and memorizable. Maybe it needs time to get used to the others. Absolutely love BG1's original soundtrack, and not only music - voices, sounds, ambient chatter. And I find SoA's soundtrack somewhat too pompous but still great.

[theacefes]

I'm still on the fence whether to get this or not, since I have so many other games in my "pile", but I will add one thing to what Aranthys said. The thing about BG:EE is also that it's "hassle free". What I mean by that is that you buy it, install it, and it works. Playing BG nowadays has become time consuming and can give you a few headaches if you're not careful: installing this mod or not, minding the mod order, keeping your strings in order, etc. It's by no means impossible, but damned inconvenient sometimes.

Eh...honestly, I think I've just been playing BG with mods for so long that the installs really don't seem THAT long to me, or that complicated, and I'm not really a genius or anything like that. Could be that since I modded the game myself I already know what to do. Or it could be that people are spoiled now and want everything handed to them. Who knows?

I don't believe BG:EE will be hassle free, but I do think it helps that the modders who worked on the fixpacks/hacks/potatoes are helping the devs out, otherwise it would be a much, much bigger cluster$%@! than what some reviewers already think it is.

Edit.: Not to mention the chance to one day see "Planescape torment : EE" see the light of the day.

Heh, I doubt it.

Edited by theacefes, 18 November 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Eleima]

Eh...honestly, I think I've just been playing BG with mods for so long that the installs really don't seem THAT long to me, or that complicated, and I'm not really a genius or anything like that. Could be that since I modded the game myself I already know what to do. Or it could be that people are spoiled now and want everything handed to them. Who knows?
I don't believe BG:EE will be hassle free, but I do think it helps that the modders who worked on the fixpacks/hacks/potatoes are helping the devs out, otherwise it would be a much, much bigger cluster$%@! than what some reviewers already think it is.

I don't think I'm spoiled per se, and I don't need anything handed to me.
It's not rocket science by any measure, not with all the guides, and posts you find out there. But when you juggle a full time job (60-70 hours a week), and a family (complete with a needy infant), you don't want to jump through extra hoops to get to your downtime. Your gaming habits change as you get older, as your lifestyle changes, or at least, it certainly has for me (and I don't think I'm alone on that count, if some people are to be believed). At this point, if I wanted to play BG or BG2 again, I'd probably have to wipe the thing and reinstall it (I have a clean install stashed somewhere probably), but if I have to pick between that and launching Steam and picking from my auto-updated library... Yeah. I'll take the quicker route.

That's not to say that I believe BG:EE will be hassle free, of course. And I'm still undecided on whether to get it at all, since I still do have a preference for my own installation, with my own copy and my own collection of favorite mods.

But yeah... Thank goodness modders are working with the devs, that's for sure.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Sorry, but for 20 bucks, I'll take both the BG2 engine port + core engine fixes/improvements + additional content AND the 20 NPC, 19 quests from SHS (and every other mod out there).

But you are not going to get that out of the box, so to speak, and the BWS is going to need some really hard kicks before it's going to fly with the BG:EE'es, cause I hear that the .bif compiling and discompiling is a big problem with the new files.

But I can see both sides of the -to get- -not to get- "argument", and just say that "We'll see." But I'll say that the BG:EE is not just a cash grab...

[Tempest]

It's not like the community is going to suddenly split over BGEE. Those who feel it is a worthwhile purchase will buy it, those who do not will not. I doubt that there will be mods specifically developed for one or the other, and it doesn't look like BGEE will add anything that will break mods that already work with BGT/Tutu.

[Galactygon]

I doubt that there will be mods specifically developed for one or the other, and it doesn't look like BGEE will add anything that will break mods that already work with BGT/Tutu.

BG:EE softcodes certain hardcoded rules that would have otherwise required hacking or less-than-optimal-workarounds, so I'm pretty sure there will be mods written for BG(2):EE that would not normally work on 'ole ToB.

EDIT: I see this a bit like modding for Tutu: there will be mods that are compatible with the original version, and there will be mods that will require EE, so in the end (almost) everyone will be start using BG:EE.

If there are problems with the GuI feel, no problem. Somebody at some point will make a mod that restores the old GuI feel with the new features.

-Galactygon

Edited by Galactygon, 19 November 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

If there are problems with the GuI feel, no problem. Somebody at some point will make a mod that restores the old GuI feel with the new features.

This will be the easiest to make, just use the Widescreen mod on the old one, and copy the processed picture files and then put them to the new games override folder... ... well should be.
Erhm, the U needs to be capitalized, or you can use the gui too... but but...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 19 November 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Tempest]

BG:EE softcodes certain hardcoded rules that would have otherwise required hacking or less-than-optimal-workarounds, so I'm pretty sure there will be mods written for BG(2):EE that would not normally work on 'ole ToB.

Perhaps. You're assuming folks will switch to making mods for BG/2EE that make use of features and codes not present in BG/2. Beyond that, doesn't seem to be any more difficult than making mods compatible with both BGT and Tutu or creating different versions for those.

My point is, I don't like how people keep arguing that you should/should not get one or the other. If you like BGEE or what it offers, get it. If you don't, don't. BG1 and BGEE are still going to be 98% the same game.

Edited by Tempest, 19 November 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[Almateria]

You know guys, I bet Sikret is really confused now with your reactions to BGEE.

[Andrea C.]

If you like BGEE or what it offers, get it. If you don't, don't. BG1 and BGEE are still going to be 98% the same game.

That is not entirely accurate, yet not entirely inaccurate either. Regardless, I've been vouching for the same "get it if you like it" approach since the very beginning and I've been called a hypocrit for it. Go figure.

[Dakk]

And I'll support the devs to ensure we get to see additional, genuine & balanced content.

I'll admit the "additional", but it's not more "genuine" than anything aVENGER or Demivrgs has cooked up... And the jury is still out on "balanced", we'll have to see about that! And considering the original had it's fair share of useless (and a few overpowered) items and spells, I'm wouldn't count on you getting that one right either

Edited by Dakk, 19 November 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Almateria]

And if it'll be balanced, it won't follow the spirit of BG, therefore it won't be genuine. Checkmate

[Aranthys]

And I'll support the devs to ensure we get to see additional, genuine & balanced content.

I'll admit the "additional", but it's not more "genuine" than anything aVENGER or Demivrgs has cooked up... And the jury is still out on "balanced", we'll have to see about that! And considering the original had it's fair share of useless (and a few overpowered) items and spells, I'm wouldn't count on you getting that one right either

Note that not all mods are as balanced avenger's or demi's mods.
Also note that while loving some of the work from Demi, I do dislike how far away he went from the original spells, or how he integrated 3rd edition shenanigans in BG/BG2.
Note that I like 3rd edition. Just, not in BG2.