1123 replies to this topic

[Kaeloree]

Super awesome Thanks Andrea!

[Andrea C.]

You're very welcome more mods = more fun!

[William Imm]

As a side note, I was the one who suggested 1pp to Trent Oster.

[Galactygon]

ME: Hi Cam! Is there going to be any less hard-coded stuff in BG:EE? Less hard-coded stuff = more flexibility for modders

Cameron Tofer: I just did a ton of un-hard coding stuff in the interface. there's going to be lots of new stuff modders can do

I am really hoping there won't be compatibility issues with ToBEx when they decide to unhardcode some stuff.

-Galactygon

[phordicus]

Since they want to appear as bros, ask them to release the source code. Obviously modders are quite happy to fix and optimize whatever they can get their hands on. This will leave them free to devote all their time to actual content.

Hahahaha. Good one.

P.S. Which ones of you are getting free copies to hype this? I know the old TeamBG guys are probably jealous that they're all but forgotten by everyone outside our little modders' club. Man, I'd hate to have broken such monumental ground 8+ years ago with IEEP, Tactics, etc, and here comes our pal Trent -- and you know he's a pal because every third paragraph mentions he co-founded Bioware and that has to be good, amirite? -- saying, "Wow, dude, your mod is amazing. Do you mind if I try to score some bux off of it? I'll even upscale the graphics and unhook the GUI for you."

Cue butthurt.

Edited by phordicus, 15 April 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[Andrea C.]

I am really hoping there won't be compatibility issues with ToBEx when they decide to unhardcode some stuff.

I'm hoping most, if not all, of ToBEx components won't be necessary with the new BG:EE engine (i.e. modders already have everything they need in soft-coded form and need no further hacking to get it)

[Andrea C.]

P.S. Which ones of you are getting free copies to hype this crap?

Not me. Do you get something for bashing it?

Really, the source code belongs to BioWare, and therefore vicariously to EA. I don't see them releasing any source code of any game ever.

[Wisp]

I am really hoping there won't be compatibility issues with ToBEx when they decide to unhardcode some stuff.

ToBEx, Infinity Animations and all other exe mods will almost certainly be incompatible with this.
I guess you could re-reverse the new ones, but there's the work, possibly the DRM and maybe other factors.

Edited by Wisp, 15 April 2012 - 01:58 AM.

[GeN1e]

Asc64 is currently in the BG:EE subreddit suggesting fixes to the developers, for those wondering

Where's that? I've found reddit.com and r/baldursgate there, but it seems not the thing. In particular, I'm worried about new kits/classes, which may easily break a bunch of item mods.

PS Found http://www.reddit.co...sOfBaldursGate/ but it says forbidden.

Edited by GeN1e, 15 April 2012 - 04:42 AM.

[William Imm]

PS Found http://www.reddit.co...sOfBaldursGate/ but it says forbidden.

That's because you need to ask one of the people at Beamdog to let you in. Try baldursgate@beamdog.com - it managed to get me to Cameron directly, and he let me have access to the account

PS: reddit is incredibly addictive

[Suslik]

Since they want to appear as bros, ask them to release the source code.

And lose all their money because users will start downloading the game instead of modding the game they've bought? Nice one.

I'm sort of confused. Is BGEE going to be only on iOS or win too?

[Andrea C.]

I'm sort of confused. Is BGEE going to be only on iOS or win too?

Windows, too.

EDIT: those looking for changes in usability flags will be let down. From Oster: We've had a few conversations about the usability flags. No easy fix without reprocessing all the data and breaking mods.

Edited by Andrea C., 15 April 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Almateria]

And lose all their money because users will start downloading the game instead of modding the game they've bought? Nice one.

That's not what "releasing the source code" means!

[phordicus]

Not me. Do you get something for bashing it?

Really, the source code belongs to BioWare, and therefore vicariously to EA. I don't see them releasing any source code of any game ever.

If people can wet their pants over a minor bump in graphics, I am simply trying to prevent a heart attack or stroke should Beamdog implement any genuine improvements.

Also, Jim Cummings, who provided the original voice of Minsc, intends to reprise his role as the giant space hamster totting barbarian we've all come to know and love.

I consider this terrible news for two reasons. 1) They're wasting money on VO, and 2) Minsc is the Jar-Jar Binks of BG.

But for some good news,
@ThorThunderfist We are looking at dumping our client for #bgee. We think it is cool, but the market is talking and we're listening.

Edited by phordicus, 16 April 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[Andrea C.]

phordicus,

no disrespect meant, but I believe you're blowing things way out of proportion. So far, there really isn't much that we know about BG:EE 'cause they've only made but three official announcements and a few vague tweets. Therefore, we do not know the full extent to which the game will be enhanced. It may be a lot or a little, but only time will tell: I see no reason to bash them for enhancing it too little just now.

There is no reason to bash Beamdog for not releasing the source code: it does not belong to them, so it's not up to them to release it. It belongs to BioWare/EA, and I doubt they'd release the source code of any game they own.

Bashing Beamdog for ripping off modders is also uncalled for, and based on groundless assumptions that their work would be mostly, if not entirely, based on currently avaiable mods that they'd make canon. So far, only one mod has been mentioned by Trent Oster as a candidate for implementation if they can solve legal issues, and that would be One Pixel Production. Erephine has already explicitly written in the readme files that 1PPv3 contents are free for anyone to use as they please, so legal issues would only apply to previous versions of the mod. Regardless, there is no confirmation of the inclusion of 1PP in BG:EE, and no other mod has been mentioned for implementation. They are working on their own content.

Yes, they are upscaling graphics to account for the higher resolutions the game will support. If they didn't do so, would you be bashing them for being so sloppy they didn't even upscale graphics? Everything they can do to enhance the game is welcome, and whether or not the game is worth paying for will be everyone's call upon seeing what was implemented in the final product. It will reportedly cost $10 top, the same that GoG.com is charging for the original version, so I don't see where the rip-off may lie.

If they had re-released the game with no new content... would you be bashing them for giving us the same stuff as before? But since they do, you're bashing them because the new content will probably suck (based on your personal conjectures?)?

As for Jim Cummings reprising his role, that website is taking it for granted out of nowhere. Trent Oster said on Twitter, in answer to a guy who asked, that if the new contents they are working on called for new Minsc voice-overs, then they would be calling on Jim Cummings to reprise his role. The new voice-overs were not confirmed at any time, and in fact Oster has stated more than once that there probably won't be any apart from voicing the new NPC they're adding.

[phordicus]

Andrea C., no offense meant, but I smell hypocrisy. If Beamdog says "X" and people say "Hooray" and you're silent on that, why are you so concerned about people saying "Boo"? Should only positive opinions be voiced? I feel no need to justify my opinions any more than the gigglesquee crowd, though I will if asked. Your use of the word bash undermines your neutrality on the issue, but that really wasn't in question.

I believe you're blowing things way out of proportion. So far, there really isn't much that we know about BG:EE 'cause they've only made but three official announcements and a few vague tweets. Therefore, we do not know the full extent to which the game will be enhanced. It may be a lot or a little, but only time will tell: I see no reason to bash them for enhancing it too little just now.

Since it's easier to type, I'll use your word "bash" to mean "voicing a negative opinion" and leave out the "undeservedly or from bias" connotation: It's called speculation. I'm sure right now there are hundreds of thousands of projects in the world that are also months from release, but no one is talking about them because no one outside of those involved knows about them. Beamdog absolutely invited speculation and continues to do so. To quote our own Solaufein,"Vague statements and little facts. If they're going to do a surprise wait like they did, it would be nice if there was more facts" Why restrict it to just optimistic reactions? How about addressing the facts I've presented as the backing for my opinions instead of trying to come up with reasons why I shouldn't express them; then we can have a real dialog.

There is no reason to bash Beamdog for not releasing the source code: it does not belong to them, so it's not up to them to release it. It belongs to BioWare/EA, and I doubt they'd release the source code of any game they own.

I never did.

And it's Atari, not BiowarEA, but your point is true and was acknowledged retroactively... Missing the joke is excused, though. What's not a joke is the availability of the source code. The series was done, dead. No games were being made for it (cf TES). Oster even acknowledges the importance of the modding community. The fact is, he's doing nothing that we couldn't with the same access. I'm not impressed.

One of the earliest defenses of this was along the lines of "Of course they can make the game better because they have source code access." Apparently, there are many, many things they can't; so far it's usability flags -- a seriously huge entity -- at the top of the list of things they can't do and we're barely a month from the announcement. To quote one of the shills excited people: "This is an amazing thing which could actually even lead to the Holy Grail if we're lucky ... some changes to the base source code of the game which we've wanted for years, and an easier way of creating new mods." I didn't see anyone condemning that completely unfounded -- and clearly being proven wrong -- cheerleading. Quite to the contrary: "In fact, there is virtually no limit to what they can do with the engine."

Bashing Beamdog for ripping off modders is also uncalled for, and based on groundless assumptions that their work would be mostly, if not entirely, based on currently avaiable mods that they'd make canon.

Considering the vast majority of non-engine fixes has already been done by mods, how can they do otherwise? Minor GUI changes, okay I guess, but if they're not fixing engine-only issues, what exactly is left?

Erephine has already explicitly written in the readme files that 1PPv3 contents are free for anyone to use as they please, so legal issues would only apply to previous versions of the mod.

OSS is generally supposed to go both ways. In this case, only one side gets to profit off of anyone's labors.

Yes, they are upscaling graphics to account for the higher resolutions the game will support. If they didn't do so, would you be bashing them for being so sloppy they didn't even upscale graphics?

"Of course," said the strawman. Is this all that's left? Patting them on the back for merely translating the visuals? That's like being amazed that Lady Gaga went back into production so you could listen to her songs on both headphones and car speakers. Thanks but big effin deal.

It will reportedly cost $10 top, the same that GoG.com is charging for the original version, so I don't see where the rip-off may lie.

The original is $10 and worth more compared even to its current peers. Whatever Oster is adding won't amount to 5% of the total content, content which is in no way different than that already freely available.

If they had re-released the game with no new content... would you be bashing them for giving us the same stuff as before? But since they do, you're bashing them because the new content will probably suck (based on your personal conjectures?)?

You're speculating on my speculation? I see your crazy and raise you a neurosis. Call.

As for Jim Cummings reprising his role, that website is taking it for granted out of nowhere. Trent Oster said on Twitter, in answer to a guy who asked, that if the new contents they are working on called for new Minsc voice-overs, then they would be calling on Jim Cummings to reprise his role. The new voice-overs were not confirmed at any time, and in fact Oster has stated more than once that there probably won't be any apart from voicing the new NPC they're adding.

I didn't dig much further on that. I just realized that they have none of this mapped out. They have things they want to do but don't know if they can do it. Is the new NPC in-progress as well? It'd have to be if they don't know the party interactions yet.

Edited by phordicus, 17 April 2012 - 04:04 AM.

[Eleima]

Okay, guys, fair warning, let's try to keep it civil, and keep cool heads. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Also, personal attacks are unwarranted and have no place here. Remember rule number one of Dili's Playground, "don't be a jerk".
Just a heads up, I don't want to see any more escalation.

Edited by Eleima, 17 April 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[quinlan]

The fact is, he's doing nothing that we couldn't with the same access.

I think the above statement is wrong. Not untruthful, mind you, simply wrong.

How about this fact: The modding community will never get its hands on the source code (i assume, it being a copyright issue). This leads to the conclusion that there is a limit to what the modding community can come up with. Consequently, for better or worse, whoever has the right to tamper with the source code could potentialy offer something extra that we haven't seen up to now. I am not saying it is certain and i don't believe so, so i will just wait and see.

[phordicus]

I won't waste more time attempting to decipher illogical or meritless statements. That likely means my time in this thread is done.

[Miraz]

The original is $10 and worth more compared even to its current peers. Whatever Oster is adding won't amount to 5% of the total content, content which is in no way different than that already freely available.

Apart from probably being better. New content made by proper game developers from the original BG team with access to the source code and dedicated artists > fan developed content. No argument.