1123 replies to this topic

[Andrea C.]

I was never a fan of upscaling as opposed to re-rendering. Obviously a re-render would look significantly better. Then again, if upscaling is the best we can get, so be it: it'll still look better than 640x480 (besides, I'm unfamiliar with OpenGL upscaling algorithms, so they might as well be awesome)

[phordicus]

I want to know why this is (1) news and (2) good news.

If all you're doing is porting an app to a platform it was never designed for at resolutions it was never intended for, wouldn't making it comparably viewable be an absolute minimum expectation? It's not an improvement at all, it's just a translation. Christonhisthrone, reading some of the reactions would make one think he was sending along life-size love dolls for romance simulation purposes.

It's not like they triumphed in their first attempt at raping a game's legacy for profit reviving a beloved franchise, garnering such praise as:

"Overall, it feels like a nice paint job on a car that hasn't been maintained,"

"I don't want to describe it as sloppy, but there is a certain unevenness to MDK2's revivification," and

"I did find performance to be a bit spotty in areas as well, which is odd considering the review system is above and beyond the required specs."

Edited by phordicus, 12 April 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Andrea C.]

A higher resolution than 640x480 will inevitably look better, especially if re-rendered (as is the case with BG:EE's UI, which is being rewritten from scratch). Upscaling the rest of the graphics is both necessary and welcome. I doubt it would look worse than the original, but it has to be kept in mind that it's an older game so it can't look too polished (especially without the source art assets to work with in the first place). The same applies to MDK2 - being an older game, there was only so much they could do, I guess.

[Stabwound]

If "upscaling" could make things look better, why hasn't it been done by a modder already? If they only have access to the final versions everyone else has, what's stopping Bill the Amateur Modder from doing the same batch thing they're talking about?

Of course, I'll bet that it's really just an excuse and they don't want to put the time/money into redrawing everything. Just do the minimum amount of work possible and sell existing mods.

[Andrea C.]

If "upscaling" could make things look better, why hasn't it been done by a modder already?

Because it takes porting all the graphics to OpenGL (which in turn requires working with the source code).

[Galactygon]

Of course, I'll bet that it's really just an excuse and they don't want to put the time/money into redrawing everything. Just do the minimum amount of work possible and sell existing mods.

I think it's a fine solution. While I'm not an expert in OpenGL, I'd imagine it's analogous to converting a bitmap to vector, upscaling it, and converting it back to bitmap.

-Galactygon

[phordicus]

Upscaling doesn't automatically equal good-looking. The scaling algorithm has a lot to do with, and even then, if this you were concerned about reputation, you'd still have people go in and make final adjustments and corrections by hand. The algo has to take, say, 10 pieces of hue/saturation/brightness information and then extropolate that into 1000 pieces based on context. It's not like blowing up a photo in PS and running a few filters on it.

I think the GUI changes may be the first genuine improvement.

[Suslik]

Upscaling can be done via enlarging low-res images and then editing sprites manually. But in case of infinity engine sprites which have 64+ frames of animation per character it would be extremely expensive and I highly doubt that developers will choose this way.

Or they can use 3d models which were initially used to render animations for characters. It can be automated and done almost for free, provided they still have those 3d models and they are not going to modify them, which would cost additional money.

I actually don't give a damn about graphics of BGEE, since I like it the way it is, I just would love to see the whole community migrating to new engine: more portable, stable and with additional features. And more fancy engine means more newcomers will come to play/donate/mod.

Edited by Suslik, 12 April 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Miloch]

A higher resolution than 640x480 will inevitably look better, especially if unless all graphics are re-rendered

Bold text added .

Upscaling graphics pretty much never works, at least not over a fairly negligible factor of perhaps 25% or so (if that). The graphics look fuzzy and pixelated at anything beyond that, even using fairly sophisticated algorithms. I've tested different resolutions and I think the game might actually look best at 640x480 (or perhaps 800x600) - at least you can see the characters at that resolution. Higher resolutions allow you to see more terrain for what that's worth (and it isn't worth much since you can't target anyone beyond 30' or so) but at the cost of reducing graphic size.

[Dakk]

Beamdog interested in Icewind Dale, pending Baldur's Gate success @ Joystik
Beamdog Wants to Resurrect Icewind Dale @ Gameranx

I still can't really shake the feeling that TobEx has upstaged BGEE, and IWD-in-BG2 does the same for IWD... Too little, too late?

[Andrea C.]

I've tested different resolutions and I think the game might actually look best at 640x480 (or perhaps 800x600) - at least you can see the characters at that resolution. Higher resolutions allow you to see more terrain for what that's worth (and it isn't worth much since you can't target anyone beyond 30' or so) but at the cost of reducing graphic size.

They have a zoom in/zoom out feature implemented in BG:EE

[Miraz]

Beamdog interested in Icewind Dale, pending Baldur's Gate success @ Joystik
Beamdog Wants to Resurrect Icewind Dale @ Gameranx

I still can't really shake the feeling that TobEx has upstaged BGEE, and IWD-in-BG2 does the same for IWD... Too little, too late?

As someone who's not into the technicalities of modding (so basically your average Baldur's Gate fan) ... I really don't understand what TobEx has done which actually matters to the average gamer in terms of upgrading the game into something more modern.

Regardless, I'd expect the "mod support" Trent Oster's been talking about on Twitter to be something which enables a modded install from fresh to be done in a reasonable time, instead of the hours of effort it takes right now. That'd be worth the money in and itself, for me.

Edited by Miraz, 13 April 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[Andrea C.]

Asc64 is currently in the BG:EE subreddit suggesting fixes to the developers, for those wondering

[William Imm]

Asc64 is currently in the BG:EE subreddit suggesting fixes to the developers, for those wondering

So am I. In fact, I've been there for longer than A64...

[Andrea C.]

So am I.

I know, dear friend. In fact, I've given a vote up to most of your proposals so far

[Ascension64]

As I see it, TobEx is just a backend. So I agree that for the player who knows nothing but to double click the executable, TobEx is an esoteric obfuscation.

What I see would sell for BG:EE are:
1) new content (always the big drawcard!)
2) ease-of-use with improved UI
2) modernisation to work on more platforms (GemRB already partially achieves this)
3) bug-fixing (TobEx partially achieve this, but only on Windows, Linux, and somewhat Mac-Wine systems)

[Andrea C.]

What I see would sell for BG:EE are:
1) new content (always the big drawcard!)

Personally, I am more interested in things that can only be done via working with the source code than in new content. Of course it would make no sense on Beamdong's part to re-release the game without any new content, so that was kinda mandatory, but it's still something that mods can (and do) already add to the game. I'm a lot more interested in the overcoming of current engine limitations (like 22.5Khz sound; low resultion graphics; absence of a zoom-in feature for higher resolutions achieved through the widescreen mod; lots of hard-coded stuff that can't be easily modded; bugs, slowdowns and crappy multiplayer support, not being able to equip sword-and-shield, bow and dual-weapons simultaneously and swap among them quickly without having to resort to inventory management in the middle of the battle; etc.).

[Almateria]

I wonder if deathmatch mode will make it back.

[Zireael]

That reminds me. I'd love to see D&D 3.0-style double weapons in BGEE. I think they existed under AD&D rules...

[Andrea C.]

ME: Hi Cam! Is there going to be any less hard-coded stuff in BG:EE? Less hard-coded stuff = more flexibility for modders

Cameron Tofer: I just did a ton of un-hard coding stuff in the interface. there's going to be lots of new stuff modders can do