1123 replies to this topic

[Miraz]

Would it not be possible to backwards engineer the artwork from the game files themselves? I don't know too much about this stuff, but it seems to me that the artwork files must be within the game somewhere ...

While a full art overhaul isn't something I'd be too bothered about, I would be disappointed if there wasn't such improvements as dynamic lighting.

[Miraz]

I was referring to the discussion topics from the Reddit group. Either way, who cares if he's got 100% new content? So do modders. Hardly any of it is worth paying for. And what approval pipeline? Is he not making the final decisions? If he wants to keep using his Bioware co-founder tag as some kind of selling point, it'd be noteworthy if Atari/WotC (or some other entity?) had significant influence on content, much less veto power.

No offence to anyone in the modding community ... but a lot of the content put out by modders is just what it is. Amateur content. There's hardly any content out there which I would consider worthy of being in the game canonically. A lot of it just isn't very well written, or worse ... is written in a way which completely breaks consistency with the rest of the writing in the game. Nothing's more infuriating than seeing writers resort to *emotes* to portray characterisation, or making <CHARNAME>'s responses turn into long novella instead of the short, dialogue-progressing lines they usually are.

A professional team will, I expect, produce professional content. And I'd pay for that, oh yes I would.

Second ... the "approval pipeline" doesn't mean he's answering to anyone. He's working in a team. He's most likely saying that he needs to make sure that what he wants to do with the team is practically feasible within the deadlines they're working to before he starts mouthing off about what's going to be in the game. That's what gets Peter Molyneux in trouble usually.

[Andrea C.]

Would it not be possible to backwards engineer the artwork from the game files themselves? I don't know too much about this stuff, but it seems to me that the artwork files must be within the game somewhere ..

I'm afraid reverse engineering wouldn't do, in this case. The game files are scaled to match exactly the ingame resolution of 640x480. Creating higher resolution files from lower resolution sources is either not feasible, or it would yield subpar results. You can always remove detail from something that has it, but putting it back is another story. It's the same with music: you can make mp3s from a CD, but you can't get back to CD quality from mp3s 'cause the missing information is simply no longer there to retrieve. BG's source files were supposedly either very high resolution or, as I suspect, actual working files that could be opened in whatever software they used to create them and edited at their leisure (including a complete, higher resolution re-rendering).

[Rhaella]

I was referring to the discussion topics from the Reddit group. Either way, who cares if he's got 100% new content? So do modders. Hardly any of it is worth paying for. And what approval pipeline? Is he not making the final decisions? If he wants to keep using his Bioware co-founder tag as some kind of selling point, it'd be noteworthy if Atari/WotC (or some other entity?) had significant influence on content, much less veto power.

No offence to anyone in the modding community ... but a lot of the content put out by modders is just what it is. Amateur content. There's hardly any content out there which I would consider worthy of being in the game canonically. A lot of it just isn't very well written, or worse ... is written in a way which completely breaks consistency with the rest of the writing in the game. Nothing's more infuriating than seeing writers resort to *emotes* to portray characterisation, or making 's responses turn into long novella instead of the short, dialogue-progressing lines they usually are.

A professional team will, I expect, produce professional content. And I'd pay for that, oh yes I would.

Jaheira: Yes, but must the gathering be done with such fervor? When people assemble they attract those that want to lead. Why do they not just accept their proper place?
++ ~But one's place is not always apparent. Who decides on a person's proper place?
++ ~Usually you speak foolish garbage, but this time your words ring true. My proper place is the God of Murder, and your place is to serve as my slave!

AERIE: But maybe things could change again? Maybe our people could become paladins and rangers and even mages on day, without limitation. Wouldn't that be exciting?
MAZZY: Yes, yes, and maybe my people will become skinny, wear shoes and have big, long skulls. Really, Aerie, you needn't keep your head in the clouds ALL the time.
AERIE: Well, it was just a thought.
MAZZY: And it wasn't a bad one. But it's not likely that the gods are going to revamp the halflings and come out with a 'third edition', as it were, now, is it?

That's some high bar you have there. Personally, I'd like to see some more professional writing myself.

Edited by Rhaella, 01 April 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Miraz]

I was referring to the discussion topics from the Reddit group. Either way, who cares if he's got 100% new content? So do modders. Hardly any of it is worth paying for. And what approval pipeline? Is he not making the final decisions? If he wants to keep using his Bioware co-founder tag as some kind of selling point, it'd be noteworthy if Atari/WotC (or some other entity?) had significant influence on content, much less veto power.

No offence to anyone in the modding community ... but a lot of the content put out by modders is just what it is. Amateur content. There's hardly any content out there which I would consider worthy of being in the game canonically. A lot of it just isn't very well written, or worse ... is written in a way which completely breaks consistency with the rest of the writing in the game. Nothing's more infuriating than seeing writers resort to *emotes* to portray characterisation, or making 's responses turn into long novella instead of the short, dialogue-progressing lines they usually are.

A professional team will, I expect, produce professional content. And I'd pay for that, oh yes I would.

Jaheira: Yes, but must the gathering be done with such fervor? When people assemble they attract those that want to lead. Why do they not just accept their proper place?
++ ~But one's place is not always apparent. Who decides on a person's proper place?
++ ~Usually you speak foolish garbage, but this time your words ring true. My proper place is the God of Murder, and your place is to serve as my slave!

AERIE: But maybe things could change again? Maybe our people could become paladins and rangers and even mages on day, without limitation. Wouldn't that be exciting?
MAZZY: Yes, yes, and maybe my people will become skinny, wear shoes and have big, long skulls. Really, Aerie, you needn't keep your head in the clouds ALL the time.
AERIE: Well, it was just a thought.
MAZZY: And it wasn't a bad one. But it's not likely that the gods are going to revamp the halflings and come out with a 'third edition', as it were, now, is it?

That's some high bar you have there. Personally, I'd like to see some more professional writing myself.

It would be unfair of me to do an equivilent comparison with some of the bad writing I've encountered in mods, given that some of the authors of said material may end up reading this ... but really, the quality of writing across the whole of BG1+2 is generally very high, I think we'd all agree. And I can quote bad writing from even the most popular of fan-made mods.

Besides ... what's wrong with that first quote from the Jaheria Romance, exactly?

[berelinde]

Is there any point in joining a community that identifies itself as a "Modding Community" and bragging about how much you dislike mods?

The problem I have with the Jaheira quote is that it has two PC reply options, one of which is vague, oddly passive, and would benefit greatly from a thesaurus while the other is totally MWAHAHAHAHAHA! If you think that's the pinnacle of good writing, I'm not sure I'd mind being on your "fail" list.

The second Aerie/Mazzy quote isn't bad writing, exactly. It's quite funny, in fact, but it's a really, really big wink at the camera.

[Almateria]

isn't bad writing(...) but it's a really, really big wink at the camera.

Exactly! Bad writing, of the "wink-wink-nudge-nudge do you get it" and "video games are in fact quite different from real life" categories. It's not funny, it's not good and you should never do it if you try to be professional.

Speaking of bad writing:

(he chuckles) I'm not as old as Elminster but I have been around for quite a while. Longer than most full-blooded elves could hope for. I'm not a Chosen for any deity but I have been tasked by some to help shift power and control from one faction to another. By the way, who is now in charge at Candlekeep? I haven't been there in many years.

Tethtoril.

What?! Hmm, I think I remember a stable boy by that name. I guess it has been awhile since I was last there. Well, anyway, I need to get back to my crops. Good luck to you Syvishtara.

Why aren't you the leader of Restenford?

Why would I want to be? Sometimes, you have more power when you are behind the throne instead of on the throne. But even those days are over for me. I give advice to the baron only when he asks for it. I am happier out here on my farm than I would be stuck in his manor house.

Oh my god

Edited by Almateria, 01 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Miraz]

Is there any point in joining a community that identifies itself as a "Modding Community" and bragging about how much you dislike mods?

The problem I have with the Jaheira quote is that it has two PC reply options, one of which is vague, oddly passive, and would benefit greatly from a thesaurus while the other is totally MWAHAHAHAHAHA! If you think that's the pinnacle of good writing, I'm not sure I'd mind being on your "fail" list.

The second Aerie/Mazzy quote isn't bad writing, exactly. It's quite funny, in fact, but it's a really, really big wink at the camera.

I'm sorry if I've at any point implied that I dislike mods. I love mods. I think that the modding community of BG2 is the single greatest mod community in video-game history. Nobody's accomplished as much as BG2's mod community has, or added so much content. I'm simply saying that the writing quality of the original game is beyond pretty much all of the writing I've seen in mods. That's not exactly a controversial thing to say considering BG2 is generally considered the best written CRPG of all time, is it?

The Jaheria thing ... I thought was pretty funny, in context. If you select the "MWHAHAHAHA!" option, Jaheria just sort of goes "... you're a doofus" and moves on, IIRC. Same with the Mazzy/Aerie banter, just a bit of a humorous aside designed to make you laugh. Not exactly on the same level as "For years I clung to the memory, then the memory of the memory, and then nothing", sure ... but not exactly horrendous either, surely?

Edited by Miraz, 01 April 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[KIrving]

That's not exactly a controversial thing to say considering BG2 is generally considered the best written CRPG of all time, is it?

Personally, I'd rank Planescape Torment higher than BG2 for writing quality.

Speaking of which, I read that Mr Oster tweeted something about plans to revamp it, at some point, as well.

Edited by KIrving, 01 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Lurker of the north]

(Btw; Here's hoping i'm dead wrong below.)

Looking at the screenshots over at www.baldursgate.com; they should call it "Baldurs Gate Somewhat Cross-platform Compatible Edition" ...i've yet to spy any "enhancement".


----------------Edit:
I suppose (hope) it's just photoshops rather then screenies, but... they're not even fullscreening, and the pad-version simply "zooms in".
If "enhanced" means repackaged, then; -Job well done sir! (i won't be buying it though... we already had that + more content.)

Edited by Lurker of the north, 01 April 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[phordicus]

@ responders

Fair enough, but without genuine improvements, this is just a modder charging for his mod, no better than Sikret/IA. Differentiating between amateur/professional is bullshit and you know it. Dragon Age 2 was a terrible game (especially for what it was promoted as), yet was "professional"; whereas there have been many (or just several, if you're truly elitist) "amateur" mods that were good enough to get the modders hired by the modded game's company (Team Fortress), and in some cases considered better than the original (The Dark Mod), and in lesser cases and smaller scopes, mods do more to make the game enjoyable than the base game itself (TES IV & V being the poster children for this).

This really has turned into a "move along - nothing to see here" situation.

Here's my enhancement team: Lava (NPCs/quests), aVENGER (CREs/kits), DavidW (AI), Erephine (gfx), about 10 others for various improvements and content and Miloch as QA.

[William Imm]

(and William Imm as playtester, Enkida as portrait maker, don't forget that)

Edited by William Imm, 01 April 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[Rhaella]

Is there any point in joining a community that identifies itself as a "Modding Community" and bragging about how much you dislike mods?

The problem I have with the Jaheira quote is that it has two PC reply options, one of which is vague, oddly passive, and would benefit greatly from a thesaurus while the other is totally MWAHAHAHAHAHA! If you think that's the pinnacle of good writing, I'm not sure I'd mind being on your "fail" list.

The second Aerie/Mazzy quote isn't bad writing, exactly. It's quite funny, in fact, but it's a really, really big wink at the camera.

Yeah, some winks, like Irenicus's "villain's exposition" line, I actually really like, but that one... winking at the genre is one thing, purposefully breaking immersion like that really just irritates me.

The Jaheria thing ... I thought was pretty funny, in context. If you select the "MWHAHAHAHA!" option, Jaheria just sort of goes "... you're a doofus" and moves on, IIRC. Same with the Mazzy/Aerie banter, just a bit of a humorous aside designed to make you laugh. Not exactly on the same level as "For years I clung to the memory, then the memory of the memory, and then nothing", sure ... but not exactly horrendous either, surely?

The fact that you're railroaded to a fairly uninteresting Chaotic Good platitude, with the only alternative being a ridiculously over the top evil response, is my problem with it. I'd appreciate the "muahaha" option if there were even one other realistic answer there. I'd also appreciate realistic evil options, even if I usually play CG/CN. Granted, the serious lack of roleplaying options in the dialogue is a major problem in general.

I'd be very, very happy if their content additions were just expanding current dialogue. Could you please let me play someone who's neutral without being druidic neutral? Or good but not a paladin?

[Zireael]

I have to second the addition of more dialogue options (i.e. not only "good" and "evil", but also "neutral", "chaotic" and "lawful",

I'd also love if we could play subraces, with the world reacting to the subrace we chose (ie. a moon elf would be treated different than a sylvan elf in Suldanesselar; a shield dwarf would be treated differently in the Cloakwood Mines; if we played a drow or a half-drow, well...)

Oh, and the same goes for class recognition in Baldur's Gate 1. Monks in Candlekeep should treat you differently depending on whether you are a mage, a cleric or a fighter...

[Andrea C.]

From Trent's Twitter: We're trying to embrace the Weidu methods for mods. As we have the source code, we can make the management a little easier.

[aqrit]

edit: somewhat redundant, ( didn't read all the posts )

They've already anounced that BG:EE is going to be all engine improvements
( +1 Adventure, +1 NPC )

They have to "overhaul" the game before the Summer 2012 release date...

At best, it is a stepping stone to BG3

1. Raise Funding ( Cash Grab )
2. Get users onto the Beamdog ( DRM/Bit-torrent/Spyware ) "Player"
3. Beta testing for their engine

Edited by aqrit, 02 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Andrea C.]

At best, it is a stepping stone to BG3

I think this has sort of been confirmed by Trent. Some good can still come from it, though, and I wouldn't mind that

[phordicus]

I have to second the addition of more dialogue options (i.e. not only "good" and "evil", but also "neutral", "chaotic" and "lawful",

I'd also love if we could play subraces, with the world reacting to the subrace we chose (ie. a moon elf would be treated different than a sylvan elf in Suldanesselar; a shield dwarf would be treated differently in the Cloakwood Mines; if we played a drow or a half-drow, well...)

Oh, and the same goes for class recognition in Baldur's Gate 1. Monks in Candlekeep should treat you differently depending on whether you are a mage, a cleric or a fighter...

I'll say this: As much as I think NWN (Trent as lead) sucks in multiple ways, it is the last game I played that had such extensive checks in dialog for player stats/skills. If they add that, I might get it just to port over into my PC versions.

[Bartimaeus]

The problem with stat checks in BG2, in my opinion, is that there's no real stats like diplomacy, intimidate, etc. that you can increase as you level - nor even your regular stats, as once you pick them, they're that for the rest of the game minus a few extra points from like tomes in BG1 and Tears of Bhaal in SoA. PST worked very well in this regard, because you got an additional stat point every time you leveled up. NWN works because there's stats like, as mentioned before, diplomacy and intimidate, that you increase every level. So how would Baldur's Gate work?