1123 replies to this topic

[Dakk]

Gee thanks Bioware. That's criminally dumb.

[William Imm]

Well, thanks Bioware for incinerating the origional source artwork for the game. Was it to make room for your Sonic Chronicles artwork? No, seriously, why did you do that?

[Kaeloree]

Somehow, I doubt they meant to.

[Andrea C.]

Well, yes: I don't think they sat down and said "Hey, let's delete the original artwork for Baldur's Gate in everyone's face!" "Yeah, that's gonna be good!" But I think special care should've been taken to prevent any loss, if nothing else out of respect for Daniel Walker who passed away, and that was (at least a significant part of) his legacy.

This narrows the possibilities for graphical enhancement a fair deal - and, I'm afraid, will turn into a deal breaker for me (unless everything else about BGEE was stellar). I'd rather make Daniel Walker's animations dual-wield myself and use them in the original games than to play a polished version of BG that still has mirrored sprites that look like children compared to BG1 animations...

[William Imm]

Well, I guess it could just be in a dusty room guarded by a dragon or such. (Through it could just be a name for the incerator)

(and why am I talking like Edwin all of a sudden? Beamdog, just use the BG1 paperdolls at least.)

Edited by William Imm, 31 March 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Stabwound]

This re-release gets more unappealing by the day. So now the original art assets are trashed, and we can only assume that by Oster's comment that they're on a shoestring budget and will probably disregard changing the art at all.

Very nice.

If they don't overhaul the UI then there is absolutely nothing here for a PC fan of the game.

[phordicus]

I don't think they ever intended to do anything with them in the first place, but congratulations to all of you buying Trent's "blame Bioware" tactic.

P.S. RushAndAPush is a dev. Beamdog is looking slimy so far, especially since it's looking like most of the new content is going to be from existing mods.

Edited by phordicus, 31 March 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Creepin]

What was wrong with the Imoen Romance ...?

OT: PLENTLY, PLENTLY, PLENTLY, NEVER MENTION IT EVER AGAIN ON SPELLHOLD STUDIOS.

Out of curiosity: are you speaking for SHS as a whole or it's just your opinion? I, personally, found Imoen Romance best (ok, may be second best after BG1NPC) mod that was ever created for BG.

Edited by Creepin, 01 April 2012 - 01:43 AM.

[Kaeloree]

Not SHS.

I don't know about anyone else, but I had no expectations they'd overhaul all of the graphics. It's simply too big of a job in the first place, especially for a small team. This is a re-release with a few enhanced features and a bit of added content, not a new game.

[phordicus]

I don't know about anyone else, but I had no expectations they'd overhaul all of the graphics. It's simply too big of a job in the first place, especially for a small team. This is a re-release with a few enhanced features and a bit of added content, not a new game.

You have a finely tuned sense of skepticism, then. Clearly they were planning to do something more visually -- small team and growing notwithstanding, otherwise why announce the "loss" of assets? I'm still very confused about what exactly is supposed to be enhanced here. I'd love for it to be something worthwhile!

Edited by phordicus, 01 April 2012 - 01:15 AM.

[Kaeloree]

Probably because a lot of people were asking about it, I would imagine. It's the next logical step in an "enhanced edition" -- to update the graphics. The sheer scope of the work involved in doing so would have been prohibitive regardless of whether they had the original artwork or not, which is why I wasn't expecting them to.

[Almateria]

I, personally, found Imoen Romance best (ok, may be second best after BG1NPC) mod that was ever created for BG.

It's incredibly creepy and written like a 14-years-old's fanfiction!

e: Okay enough of this, let's talk about BGEE or something else

Edited by Almateria, 01 April 2012 - 03:22 AM.

[Andrea C.]

If they don't overhaul the UI then there is absolutely nothing here for a PC fan of the game.

From Trent Oster's Twitter: "The UI will be rebuilt." and "We're still going through the UI work. I'm hoping to keep the same look/feel as BG2, with a BG1 palette if time allows." and"We'll do screenshots when we have something worth showing."

As for graphical enhancements: "Gotta love what a little Open GL loving can add to a game. A touch of zoom and it makes the game feel so much better."

I don't think they ever intended to do anything with them in the first place, but congratulations to all of you buying Trent's "blame Bioware" tactic.

I realize you're skeptic about BGEE, and that's fine, but some of your complaints are a tad on the "out there" side imho. Why would Trent cast such a bold accusation publicly? If it wasn't true, BioWare could easily prove it wrong, thus making Beamdog/Overhaul cut a pretty sh!tty figure. I doubt Trent or anyone from Beamdog/Overhaul would risk this. Besides, such an accusation - if false - would be absolutely uncalled for at this time. If it was just to justify the fact that they're not going to re-render the originals, they could've simply stated that they don't intend to do it because they have limited time/budget/resources and they'd rather spend them on something else. Period. I asked them about BG1 graphics because it's important to me but they don't owe me anything; it's not like they have to make up justifications for they do or don't do.

Beamdog is looking slimy so far, especially since it's looking like most of the new content is going to be from existing mods.

From Trent Oster's Twitter: "New #bgee content is 100% new. You have never seen this stuff before. Once it makes it through the approval pipeline we'll talk about it"

I don't know about anyone else, but I had no expectations they'd overhaul all of the graphics. It's simply too big of a job in the first place, especially for a small team

Somehow, I don't see how re-rendering the existing backgrounds, paperdolls and character animations to be natively hi-res would be such a big work. Overhauling the UI, fixing bugs and porting BG to BG2 engine sound like much bigger tasks to me.

Edited by Andrea C., 01 April 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Kaeloree]

Unfortunately it wouldn't just be a matter of re-rendering a bunch of scenes. Many parts of the BGII backgrounds were stitched together in 2d graphics programs, with the objects individually pre-rendered. Even if it were a matter of just re-rendering, a huge amount of work would go into retexturing the models, and in some cases remodeling objects to be compatible with current software. Paperdolls would have been created at the size they are now, and re-rendering the animations would be a nightmare job. I'm pretty sure overhauling the graphics would take a lot longer than just the UI and porting things over, as awesome as it would be to have totally updated graphics!

[berelinde]

On the plus side, using existing area art means that the odds that those of us who include areas in our mods will have to significantly revise those mods is greatly reduced. There is a bright side.

[phordicus]

I realize you're skeptic about BGEE, and that's fine, but some of your complaints are a tad on the "out there" side imho. Why would Trent cast such a bold accusation publicly? If it wasn't true, BioWare could easily prove it wrong, thus making Beamdog/Overhaul cut a pretty sh!tty figure. I doubt Trent or anyone from Beamdog/Overhaul would risk this. Besides, such an accusation - if false - would be absolutely uncalled for at this time. If it was just to justify the fact that they're not going to re-render the originals, they could've simply stated that they don't intend to do it because they have limited time/budget/resources and they'd rather spend them on something else. Period. I asked them about BG1 graphics because it's important to me but they don't owe me anything; it's not like they have to make up justifications for they do or don't do.

I rage because I care. Also because this overhype/underdeliver shit is getting old. I don't care if it's a declining giant or newborn indie.

I don't know Trent or anyone at Beamdog (afaik). Why wouldn't he lie if it's going to spread more hype and sell more units? Bethesda, Blizzard, and Bioware do it every game; Trent's supposed to be special? The fact is he encouraged speculation, especially re: visuals. If he wasn't positive at that time that he'd be able to do it, then that's reckless from a PR perspective, if not irresponsible to the fans. To go from talking about "graphics overhaul" to "now you can zoom in!" is outright hysterical.

From Trent Oster's Twitter: "New #bgee content is 100% new. You have never seen this stuff before. Once it makes it through the approval pipeline we'll talk about it"

I was referring to the discussion topics from the Reddit group. Either way, who cares if he's got 100% new content? So do modders. Hardly any of it is worth paying for. And what approval pipeline? Is he not making the final decisions? If he wants to keep using his Bioware co-founder tag as some kind of selling point, it'd be noteworthy if Atari/WotC (or some other entity?) had significant influence on content, much less veto power.

When someone says he's got something awesome to sell me, opening my wallet is not my first reaction.

Edited by phordicus, 01 April 2012 - 05:15 AM.

[William Imm]

BTW: I even tried to get Trent to use the 1pp series - hasen't really replied yet, said it on Twitter - look for #dwalkerrocks, my new tag.

[Zireael]

From Trent Oster's Twitter:

Look close at the characters in the bottom two OSX shots and tell me what you notice #bgee

I did stare at them. And guess what? The cantors in Candlekeep are holding the staves in different hands. Some in the left, some in the right. AFAIR, in BG1 (and 2) you could only hold two-handed weapons only in the right hand!

[Galactygon]

Well, thanks Bioware for incinerating the origional source artwork for the game. Was it to make room for your Sonic Chronicles artwork? No, seriously, why did you do that?

Possibly, hopefully because it's April 1.

-Galactygon

[Andrea C.]

Possibly, hopefully because it's April 1.

That would be a huge relief, and quite the bad joke on Oster's part. But wasn't it posted on 31st March?

Why wouldn't he lie if it's going to spread more hype and sell more units? Trent's supposed to be special?

Nope, but he's at least supposed to not be a moron. If someone publicly accused me of losing assets I hadn't lost, I would immediately react and make sure everyone knew what kind of a blatant liar my accuser was. I don't think BioWare would let him blame them for losing the original BG art assets without saying a word, unless he was telling the truth. Besides, I'm unsure as to how admitting that a decent graphic update can't be made could lead to better sales? In my case, as I said, that's close to a deal breaker.

Either way, who cares if he's got 100% new content? So do modders. Hardly any of it is worth paying for.

Fair enough. As I said, buying, playing or supporting BGEE in any way is not mandatory. You can't blame them for doing their job the way they see fit. You can, however, ignore their product if it is not to your liking. I honestly don't see the problem with anyone working on BGEE: let's wait until we get to the river before we cross the bridge Besides, BGEE is not only about new content. Whether you are interested in what they're offering is a personal matter (personally, I don't care much for the new and improved cross-platform multiplayer, but others may - just an example).

And what approval pipeline? Is he not making the final decisions?

From Beamdog's forums:

"We've got a pipeline we need to run content through for approvals, so that limits our throughput on releasing info.[...] With regards to rules changes, anything in the original games has already been approved. Any new additions require approval, so we've got to manage the amount of content we can move through the pipeline. We are working hard to prioritize our work to make the best BG we can. The guys we are working with are pretty awesome and the feedback is making our content better, but it does add to our timeline."

I did stare at them. And guess what? The cantors in Candlekeep are holding the staves in different hands. Some in the left, some in the right. AFAIR, in BG1 (and 2) you could only hold two-handed weapons only in the right hand!

Trent said the screenshots that have been posted so far contain a few "hints" of enhancements to come. In those bottom OS X screens, you can see the zoom feature in action (the picture on the left is zoomed, whereas the picture on the right is how BG looks in high resolution now). The circles under each character also look smoother / anti-aliased to me.

Edited by Andrea C., 01 April 2012 - 07:06 AM.