1123 replies to this topic

[Andrea C.]

Many of you seem to forget that BGEE is not mandatory, nor scheduled to replace the original versions altogether. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it or play it, and the older versions will still be available on GoG.com (but all of us already own them, so who cares if they are ditched?). Buying, playing and/or supporting BGEE is entirely optional, just like the new content is going to be optional as per Trent Oster. You don't like it? Don't play it! Don't even mod it: keep modding the older versions. What's the problem with newer generations playing BGEE? They wouldn't be playing regular BG anyway 'cause they don't know it and/or are not interested in older games. The modding community loses nothing.

[Tempest]

Except, you know, the modding community growing divided (even more so than it is now). For good or ill, this has a strong chance of sounding the death knell for the established modding community.

[Andrea C.]

^ Even after their stated commitment to maintain compatibility with the maximum number of existing mods? They're not even changing the savegame format so that the same game can be played on both versions of the game seamlessly.

[Tempest]

Statements are all but meaningless. I will wait and see whether they can deliver on their promises. I've seen enough wonderful-sounding promises about shiny new games prove to be, if not blatant lies, then at least grossly misleading.

[quinlan]

Except, you know, the modding community growing divided (even more so than it is now). For good or ill, this has a strong chance of sounding the death knell for the established modding community.

If i understand you correctly, are you saying that modders may chose to go with the new format of the game, so the old format modding community may wither away? I should think for modders to move to a new format, its quality must be at the very least equal to the old BG. So where exactly is the danger? Modders are commited people and not so easily swept away, as the musings in this thread clearly express.

[Tempest]

Some may go with the new format, some may go with the old. Given how people tend to be, there will no doubt be people in both camps, and unless the new engine is completely backwards-compatible (and I don't care for empty reassurances without any prof that they are), the community will see some fragmentation.

[Almateria]

Hmm. I don't know much about iPad. Is it so different from other Apple platforms that you can somehow get walled out of modding altogether? Are they more protective of iPad than their actual computers?

Apple doesn't want users modifying any apps, so any actual 'mods' would have to be Oster-approved separate downloads (or a kind of a separate app? I don't know too much about it ) The only way to go around it is jailbreaking, which voids the warranty and I think AppleCare? (vital to getting new iPads for almost free)

[Rhaella]

You know... that's it. My next computer will be a PC. Damn tired of all of the elitist, condescending nonsense.

It does make me wonder how quickly mods are going to have to go official just to keep the iPad version viable. I don't particularly like the concept of mods going official, since that's where I see community fragmentation and resentment start creeping in, so... =/

[Archmage Silver]

The best way would be to treat the iPad as a console platform a.k.a. no-mods platform. Just keep to the mods to actual computers instead of making them somehow "official", which they never have been.

[phordicus]

Pure speculation.

I think Trent's wanted to do BG3 for a while but Atari wants him to test the waters before greenlighting it. I hope he proves my cynicism wrong. I'd buy an iPad just to play it.

[Andrea C.]

I still don't see what they could possibly gain from making the new version of the IE not backward compatible. The vast majority of their expected sales are to people who already know the game and look forward to see its engine improved. These gamers are used to mods. Take the mods away from them and they won't be buying your "enhanced" anything (besides, the word "enhanced" doesn't really fit the description for a game that lacks backward compatibility with a ton of existing and acclaimed mods, of which the developers are even aware).

And yes, modding the iPad version is also optional. The moment Apple tries to strong-arm modders into something that limits their creative freedom, no mods for iPad get done and modders keep their freedom on the PC platform (which will remain the main platform for BG games, of this I'm pretty sure).

Edited by Andrea C., 27 March 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[Yovaneth]

I think some of this discussion is moot anyway. It assumes that any enhancements to the Infinity Engine will retain absolute backwards compatibility with the existing tools. Now, any changes to the IE (or even bugfixes, if they are savage enough) are likely to break compatibility with existing tools. Given the age of the Infinity Engine, it's my belief that the odds of any of us wanting to create new tools (or, to be blunt, the authors of DLTCEP, TobEx and Weidu to modify them) to work with a new and enhanced IE are vanishingly small. So, under those circumstances there won't be any community fragmentation because there won't be any modding happening.

Now, if the proposed modified IE does retain backwards compatibility and Weidu works without The Bigg having to tear out the rest of his hair to create Weidu compatibility, mod authors won't have to make a choice because existing mods will install without changes. Under this situation, the real problem is going to be those 'enhanced graphics'. NPC authors may decide to find the few necessary hours to update those smaller areas they created for the NPC-specific quests, but updating the graphics of huge quests like Classic Adventures, Northern Tales of the Sword Coast and Fishing For Trouble just isn't going to happen.

On a sidenote: I wonder how BWL are taking this announcement, given their absolute faith in the current bug-riddled Infinity Engine being the absolute canon. I suspect they'll treat BeamDog's corrections of the original source code with the same contempt that they've treated all bugfixes....

-Y-

[Miloch]

if the proposed modified IE does retain backwards compatibility... existing mods will install without changes.

Not true for BGEE as far as I can see. Tutu and BGT mods won't install on it because the resource names are all different. BG1 mods won't install either, because the structure formats are all different. Now it may be fairly trivial to get a Tutu/BGT mod working with BGEE but I don't think I'm going to be running out and buying DRMware just for the purpose of enabling my Tutu/BGT mods for BGEE (on the other hand, if it wasn't DRMware and was reasonably priced, I'd probably consider it).

Under this situation, the real problem is going to be those 'enhanced graphics'.

Most likely, this just means the "enhanced GUI" and not-so-enhanced character animations of BG2 and higher resolution capability (not that that's always a good thing when it's so high your characters look like ants). I highly doubt they're changing all the existing tilesets. In any case, that wouldn't mean mods would have to do so (if so, you could forget about any larger mods being compatible with it at all).

[Tempest]

As far as enhanced graphics go, I'd be happy with simple changes, like adding graphics for female gnomes and dwarves. Add to what's already there, keep changes to existing stuff to a minimum. Perhaps include things like parts of the BG2 fixpack as part of the base game.

[Almateria]

And yes, modding the iPad version is also optional. The moment Apple tries to strong-arm modders into something that limits their creative freedom, no mods for iPad get done and modders keep their freedom on the PC platform (which will remain the main platform for BG games, of this I'm pretty sure).

But that was the point the whole time! The only mods the mariety of gamers would install for a not specifically moddable game are Widescreen and
uh
the Fixpack? Maybe a better GUI if they felt particularly risky, but that's it. And it's all supposed to already be in the finished product. What I'm saying is that I don't think the majority of gamers mod their games.
I don't v v

Edited by Almateria, 27 March 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[quinlan]

The only mods the mariety of gamers would install for a not specifically moddable game are Widescreen and
uh the Fixpack? Maybe a better GUI if they felt particularly risky, but that's it. And it's all supposed to already be in the finished product. What I'm saying is that I don't think the majority of gamers mod their games.

I think you are completely wrong. The modding community cannot be sustained solely by the efforts from modders. Players are the other half of the equation.

[Yovaneth]

I believe that what Almateria is saying is that the majority of players don't add mods to their games.

-Y-

Edited by Yovaneth, 27 March 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[Miloch]

I believe that what Almateria is saying is that the majority of players don't add mods to their games.

It is true - the people on these forums represent just a subset of everyone who plays the games. Which is why it'd be great if Beamdog included some mods under a separate menu for optional add-ons in BGEE, the way they do it in Civilization and other games. But apparently they're not interested in that. It's a shame, because it could actually increase the marketing appeal of a re-release. Yes, they apparently have new content of their own, but I'm not sure how much that's going to extend replayability.

[Andrea C.]

Which is why it'd be great if Beamdog included some mods under a separate menu for optional add-ons in BGEE, the way they do it in Civilization and other games. But apparently they're not interested in that.

We have no evidence of that just now, that I know of

[Miloch]

We have no evidence of that just now, that I know of

Maybe you didn't page back far enough in this thread.