1123 replies to this topic

[phordicus]

Baldur's Gate III (aka "The Black Hound") took place in the Dalelands and Sembia. Since the game was allegedly about 80% done before cancellation, maybe it is this they will be porting for BG3.

I'll dig up the link if you insist, but Sawyer has said he doesn't know where that % came from and that it's totally inaccurate.

[edit] I found the link, but it's from 2004 and my account there is dead and I can't "prove" it's sawyer that said so.

Edited by phordicus, 24 March 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Miraz]

Wow. There's quite a lot of ungratefulness going on around here. Without communities like this behind it, all attempts to revive the game we love will surely fail.

And also people saying "If you make BG3, don't call it BG" ... what are you expecting? Them to start a whole new franchise based on a decade old engine? Be serious ... nobody would pay attention to it without the Baldur's Gate name.

[Almateria]

And also people saying "If you make BG3, don't call it BG" ... what are you expecting? Them to start a whole new franchise based on a decade old engine? Be serious ... nobody would pay attention to it without the Baldur's Gate name.

I'm only complaining because it'll most probably be on infinity engine :C

[Tempest]

Wow. There's quite a lot of ungratefulness going on around here. Without communities like this behind it, all attempts to revive the game we love will surely fail.

You're under the impression some of us particularly feel the game needs revival. It's a good, old game.

And also people saying "If you make BG3, don't call it BG" ... what are you expecting? Them to start a whole new franchise based on a decade old engine? Be serious ... nobody would pay attention to it without the Baldur's Gate name.

If the game can't stand on its own without the Baldur's Gate name, then that is the fault of the game's makers. Baldur's Gate 2 would stand fine on its own without the name. Starting a new franchise under the Baldur's Gate name is disingenuous at best, a blatant cash-in on the legacy of great games at worst.

[Rhaella]

Wow. There's quite a lot of ungratefulness going on around here. Without communities like this behind it, all attempts to revive the game we love will surely fail.

What's there to be grateful about? It's not like we're beholden to them in some way, or that this reboot was launched specifically for the modding community and we were all getting free copies. I have no more reason to be grateful about this than I do about Apple coming out with a new MacBook every few years. I'm personally not opposed to it, but I'm equal parts intrigued and skeptical.

And also people saying "If you make BG3, don't call it BG" ... what are you expecting? Them to start a whole new franchise based on a decade old engine? Be serious ... nobody would pay attention to it without the Baldur's Gate name.

The concern is more about how to extend the story after Throne of Bhaal at all, and if it's not Baldur's Gate, why call it BGIII?

IMO, people would pay attention to a new franchise if it were a good game, with or without the name tag. And if it's not a good game, the name won't help it.

Edited by Rhaella, 25 March 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Tempest]

Then what kind of fans are you? Everybody should be pleased that a game that they love is being reintroduced to a new audience; new interested from a new generation of gamers, more people in the community, more people interested in making mods ... there is absolutely zero downside to it. And yet some people are acting like these people should just go and leave the game alone.

We're the kind of fans who love what the game was, and are afraid that the "upgrades" are going to wreck what we knew and loved. There is plenty of potential downside, and we have seen no evidence to the contrary.

There are so many communities out there for games which have lied dead and forgotten by the people who developed them who would kill for some people who genuinely seem to care about the game making it their mission to revive it and make it better. They're offering us all the kind of improvements which most of us have dreamt of for years.

You aren't qualified to speak for "us," and you're making a great many presumptions in any event. Shiny new graphics do not necessarily make a game better.

The community isn't going to live forever ... the release of new mod content is already at a snail's pace compared to the old days. The only affect this can have is to reinvigorate the community. This is only a good thing, and I don't understand why any fan would oppose it, especially since the creators seem to be going out of their way to accomodate the mod community. Hell, they're even suggesting putting some of your work into the canonical game. That's frickin' huge.

Everything passes in time. What's so bad about letting a great, old game rest in peace? I still play a game made in 1990. The more this project is hyped, the warier I am that it will be all flash and no substance.

This is just simply a misunderstanding about the state of gaming. You can't put out a game with the same technology and game engine that was being used ten years ago and expect it to generate the same amount of attention and interest. Indie games have low production costs and can get interest that way, by appealing to the niche ... but a game on the scale of a brand new Baldur's Gate-style game would never garner the kind of attention it would need to get sales to make it financially viable without there being notable attention. And the Baldur's Gate name is what would get it attention.

We've been told this won't be the same technology and game engine - improved versions of both. A new Forgotten Realms RPG would get more than enough attention, whether it deserves it or not - Neverwinter Nights 2, Storm of Zehir, and particularly Mask of the Betrayer did well enough and didn't have the Baldur's Gate engine. They weren't indie games, but they didn't need the Baldur's Gate name to get attention.


Or in short, there is no reason to believe you aren't one of the many shills for this game who have been floating around various sites recently, and you have nothing substantial to offer in response to our very real concerns.

[Rhaella]

Then what kind of fans are you? Everybody should be pleased that a game that they love is being reintroduced to a new audience; new interested from a new generation of gamers, more people in the community, more people interested in making mods ... there is absolutely zero downside to it. And yet some people are acting like these people should just go and leave the game alone.

There are potential downsides to it and a lot of question marks. Hopefully everything will turn out brilliantly and modders won't have to change too much to adapt, but don't tell people that they're not fans because they don't share your exact viewpoint on everything. =/

IMO, people would pay attention to a new franchise if it were a good game, with or without the name tag. And if it's not a good game, the name won't help it.

This is just simply a misunderstanding about the state of gaming. You can't put out a game with the same technology and game engine that was being used ten years ago and expect it to generate the same amount of attention and interest. Indie games have low production costs and can get interest that way, by appealing to the niche ... but a game on the scale of a brand new Baldur's Gate-style game would never garner the kind of attention it would need to get sales to make it financially viable without there being notable attention. And the Baldur's Gate name is what would get it attention.

If you're using 10 year old technology without improvements, something's wrong, and if the updated version can't stand against modern competition, then it doesn't deserve to.

"From the creators of Baldur's Gate" or "In the style of Baldur's Gate" or something like that would work just as well, I think. Use similar font and colouring, and you've effectively got that association.

Anyway, it's not like Skyrim is known primarily as Elder Scrolls V.

[Dakk]

Then what kind of fans are you?

Can't speak for anybody else, but personally I'm a huge fan of the Baldur's Gate games. You?

[quinlan]

Being a non-native English speaker, i had to google "shills"... Wow, i didn't know there was such a tactic!

Regardless of what -Miraz- is or isn't, i believe he has some right to present his views, or to just make his sales pitch!

I agree in part with him, that a new release shouldn't make the community (modders and players) hostile/defensive to the extent that the new release will be cancelled. However, i have to point out to him that BG became successful because it managed to bring thousands of subjective and extremely opinionated individuals to agree that they like the same game, for a multitude of different reasons. Whether the new release has the letters BG and shares some content with the old releases or not, it won't make a difference as far as sales are concerned, if for any reason it cannot bring many of those individuals reach to the same conclusion, so their concerns should constitute serious input for the developers. If not, the new release, however it is called, will fail.

Having said that, i have a question for the experienced modders: Is it possible for the new release to cancel all the effort the community of modders have put to this game all these years? If i don't buy the new release, will i still be able to install my old discs and the magnificent additional mods that have been created for the BG series?

If the answer to the above question is yes, then i say let them create and release whatever they want, however they want to call it. I am perfectly fine with the scenario that i won't be able to bring together the old with the new. If i don't like the new release, i wont play it. If i like it, i will play it. But no matter what, i will know that i will always, until the day i won't be able to use a computer due to old age, i will have my - sacred - game discs and mod content that i will be able to fall back to again and again, as many times as i chose to.

[Kaeloree]

A lot of people are worried about them "ruining" the game--how would they go about this? Short of rewriting it, I can't see how they can. The only graphics they seem to be changing is the UI; maps aren't going to be redone, the story usn't going to change, the mechanics aren't going to change... I'm not sure how they're going to destroy a classic franchise with a polish and re-release.

And, if they somehow mess if up, what's to stop you from just not buying it and playing the older versions? How could a bad re-release affect us, considering most here will continue playing the older versions?

The only result I can see from a re-release is revived interest in the game and the modding community. What other consequences would there be? I genuinely can't think of any that can't be answered by "then just play the older versions."

[Dakk]

I pretty much agree with K'ae (and quinlan for that matter) here. Either the release will be botched; and that'd just be sad - but ultimately will not change anything. My original game is still there, as is SHS, G3, PPG et al. The other outcome is that the release will be a smash hit, and that'd be awesome!

Concerning the BG3 debate, the hypothetical development of that game feels far far from certain. Not really worth worrying over, IMHO. But sure, if they release a BG3 that bombs, I'll feel disappointed. BG1-2 will still live on however as the greatest games ever, it's not like a turd-BG3 would tarnish the legacy (in a way that bothers me).

So, I give BGEE the benefit of the doubt and say: bring it on!

[phordicus]

I think the "downside" is the whoring of the BG name as just a marketing tool. DAO tried it and fell short. It's bad enough there's now a generation of gamers who think Bioware still makes RPGs and not corridor-shooter/dating-sims.

Edited by phordicus, 25 March 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[Rhaella]

The only thing I'm really worried about is executive decisions getting in the way and them accidentally doing something that really makes it hard to port old mods into the new system. And the whole DRM thing. And I assume future mods would have versions for both editions?

I'm not worrying about BG3, personally. Just getting speculative.

[phordicus]

I think people who are emotionally attached to shit have a hard time not projecting that onto their opposition. On one side there are compelling arguments for why this project is at best unnecessary, at worst impossible. On the other, you've got a high-pitched chorus of "why not". Personally, I don't care that they're doing it. I've seen no evidence that it will succeed; commercially, maybe, but Justin Bieber is also commercially successful. My standards aren't that low.

And the whole DRM thing. And I assume future mods would have versions for both editions?

It's not even DRM you have to worry about. Apple wants nothing to do with "modding". This so-called new audience they're targeting aren't the people voiding warranties to jailbreak their gadgets, so I'm curious how modders, especially those involved in genuine hacks, are going to be supported on a platform that does everything it can to keep everyone numb and happy in its walled garden.

Edited by phordicus, 25 March 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[Rhaella]

Hmm. I don't know much about iPad. Is it so different from other Apple platforms that you can somehow get walled out of modding altogether? Are they more protective of iPad than their actual computers?

[Creepin]

How could a bad re-release affect us, considering most here will continue playing the older versions?

As long as BG was pretty much in forgottenware status, there was no explicit reason to worry for the fate of those mods using IP from IWDs, Planscape, Arcanum, NWN, Diablo and god knows what else. Now with this re-release, no matter good or bad, corporate attention might be drawn back to the game and modding scene, especially if there'll be Apple stickin it's money-grabbling hands into. I've seen mods like "Star Wars ships in Homeworld engine" forbidden due to IP belonged to different companies, and I'm kind of afraid we might face something similar.

[quinlan]

The only result I can see from a re-release is revived interest in the game and the modding community. What other consequences would there be? I genuinely can't think of any that can't be answered by "then just play the older versions."

With you an Admin, i will consider this sentence more than enough of an answer for my ultimate worry, that somehow my gaming experience of already created and future mod content used in conjunction with old copies of the game might somehow be ruined. I didn't think it could be, but i feel completely secure now.

Having said that, i think it is a good idea for the worrying and speculation to continue. Who knows, maybe BGEE and BG3 creators will incorporate ideas that are brought forth in this thread.

[quinlan]

Here is a nightmare scenario:

The company sues all modding communities for tampering with their property?

Should i buy an HDD and store it in an extradimensional space solely for the purpose of saving all mod content, just in case?