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#381 Rhaella

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:39 AM


The original is $10 and worth more compared even to its current peers. Whatever Oster is adding won't amount to 5% of the total content, content which is in no way different than that already freely available.

Apart from probably being better. New content made by proper game developers from the original BG team with access to the source code and dedicated artists > fan developed content. No argument.


9-5 hours, deadlines, etc., make that not necessarily true. I don't automatically equate people who do things for commercial reasons with "dedicated artists." Sometimes they are, but usually... not even close.

#382 Miraz

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:53 AM



The original is $10 and worth more compared even to its current peers. Whatever Oster is adding won't amount to 5% of the total content, content which is in no way different than that already freely available.

Apart from probably being better. New content made by proper game developers from the original BG team with access to the source code and dedicated artists > fan developed content. No argument.


9-5 hours, deadlines, etc., make that not necessarily true. I don't automatically equate people who do things for commercial reasons with "dedicated artists." Sometimes they are, but usually... not even close.

When I said "dedicated artists", I meant literal modellers, animators, and scenery artists.

Nobody's saying it'll be automatically better purely because its made by a game developer and not a fan, but some people are acting as if they won't be able to produce any content that's any better than what fans have made. Come on. There's a bit of an ego problem going on for those carrying that attitude. Most BG mods, as much as we don't like to criticise other people's hard work and dedication ... are pretty bad when compared to commerical works by professional writers and artists. Most would never make it into a professional work.

Edited by Miraz, 18 April 2012 - 11:55 AM.


#383 Stabwound

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:02 PM


The original is $10 and worth more compared even to its current peers.  Whatever Oster is adding won't amount to 5% of the total content, content which is in no way different than that already freely available.

Apart from probably being better. New content made by proper game developers from the original BG team with access to the source code and dedicated artists > fan developed content. No argument.

That's a rather ridiculous statement. We don't even know who the "original members" comprise. It could be play testers for all we know.

#384 Miraz

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:52 PM



The original is $10 and worth more compared even to its current peers. Whatever Oster is adding won't amount to 5% of the total content, content which is in no way different than that already freely available.

Apart from probably being better. New content made by proper game developers from the original BG team with access to the source code and dedicated artists > fan developed content. No argument.

That's a rather ridiculous statement. We don't even know who the "original members" comprise. It could be play testers for all we know.

Sure. It isn't, though.

From Trent Oster's twitterings, Scott Greig for one seems to be on board (Lead Programmer on original BG).

#385 quinlan

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

Will a raised BG level cap unbalance the series as a whole? What happens with TOTSC, SOS and TOB? If i start any of the above with a greater level than i am supposed to, this will diminish their difficulty, right? Unless he plans to raise the level cap all the way to TOB eventually...

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#386 Andrea C.

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:49 AM

We don't even know who the "original members" comprise.


Not all of them. As of today, there are reportedly six members of the original BG team onboard, of which two are confirmed: Trent Oster (modelling artist) and Cameron Tofer (programmer). Scott Greig (lead programmer) has been rumored/hinted at. The others have never been mentioned. Art director, lead writer and music composer are reportedly new to BG.

#387 Daxs

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:08 AM

In ToB, levels start to have much less impact. THAC0 and saves are no longer gained. You get 3-1 HP depending on your class and only get a few more HLAs.

Being down one Critical or Whirlwind won't be so impactful.

#388 Suslik

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:22 AM

In ToB, levels start to have much less impact. THAC0 and saves are no longer gained. You get 3-1 HP depending on your class and only get a few more HLAs.

That extra exp is vital for multi- and dual-classes.

#389 Dakk

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:45 PM

In ToB, levels start to have much less impact. THAC0 and saves are no longer gained. You get 3-1 HP depending on your class and only get a few more HLAs.

That extra exp is vital for multi- and dual-classes.

Yes, but when it takes 500k XP to gain a level, a difference of ~50k XP is more or less negligible.

Edited by Dakk, 19 April 2012 - 12:52 PM.


#390 GeN1e

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM

My 2% on the source code discussion. They are trapped now between extending boundaries and not breaking mods. As Trent has said in twitter himself, they can't just ignore the latter - the game has survived until now because of them, and a number of people simply won't bother with BGEE if they'll be left without their favorite mods. And from what I gather, they do not have enough resources to provide an equal substitute, just a few mods of their own making (items, kits, NPC, new area quest).


That extra exp is vital for multi- and dual-classes.

They have dual/multi advantages to compensate for the lack of levels.

Retired from modding.


#391 Andrea C.

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:00 AM

They've just announced the name of the Art Director on baldursgate.com. It's Nat Jones.

#392 Dakk

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:59 AM

They've just announced the name of the Art Director on baldursgate.com. It's Nat Jones.

Justly famed for .. ?

#393 William Imm

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:08 AM

According to Wikipedia:

Nat Jones (born July 24, 1976) is an American artist working primarily in comic books and film. Jones is best known for his work on Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer


..... - I didn't check out his art style.
At this point, I'm not really doing much Baldur's Gate related. More focused on Skyrim modding and the Born of Legend tabletop roleplaying game. Don't expect much activity here.

#394 Andrea C.

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:03 AM

..... - I didn't check out his art style.


It's quite dark. There are samples on Baldursgate.com and more his personal website. Whether or not it fits BG is to be seen (samples look good on their own, but how will his new art look next to original BG art? Similar or totally different?).

#395 William Imm

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

I looked at his art - and it's not really fitting with the style of art for BG2 or BG1. Some much better choices for that position would be Enkida, Miloch, or even erphine if she ever comes back in the future. Not saying it's bad, per se, but it fits more with Dragon Age than Baldur's Gate.

To be fair, Enkida was all but unknown before she released her portrait pack, and erphine is inactive.

Edited by William Imm, 20 April 2012 - 08:47 AM.

At this point, I'm not really doing much Baldur's Gate related. More focused on Skyrim modding and the Born of Legend tabletop roleplaying game. Don't expect much activity here.

#396 Suslik

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:40 AM

I looked at his art - and it's not really fitting with the style of art for BG2 or BG1

According to your logic, BGII's artwork is not really fitting with BG1 art style:

Spoiler

And both of them certainly do not with with IWD's artwork:

And what? Do you have doubts that these artstyles even being so different fit together perfectly in BWP?

Edited by Suslik, 20 April 2012 - 09:52 AM.


#397 William Imm

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:50 AM

I meant that is was not really fitting for BGI or BG2. If I were to look at the art style of BGII - it would be fitting for the game. If I were to look at Nat's work, I would think it's not fitting for Baldur's Gate - and belongs to something more like the Dragon Age series, for instance.

In other words, he needs to lighten up the art a little for the game.
At this point, I'm not really doing much Baldur's Gate related. More focused on Skyrim modding and the Born of Legend tabletop roleplaying game. Don't expect much activity here.

#398 --Enkida-

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:04 AM

Just stipping by during my Stateside holiday to check the board, and I have to say it since I see my handle (Enkida) being thrown around here. I was a professional artist who studied and then later worked in producing graphic art and websites. I'm certainly not famous but neither am I a completely unknown artist, just a retired one who still produces fanwork as a hobby. The point is, with my real world professional experience, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the professionals who are working on the BGEE enterprise are just that, professionals, and you should give them a little more credit. The difference between a professional and a fan is that the professional can get the job done. The fan might be able to produce one or two works that are universally loved, but a real professional will make sure the entire product looks consistently good while keeping to both the budget and the schedule.

I think there is no tougher test for a professional finished artistic product than producing a graphic novel for a major label under a deadline. If this Nat Jones has experience in producing a successful commercial graphic novel, which is not as easy as it sounds - I've worked with artists both in the industry AND trying to break into it - then I have no doubt that Jones will do a fine job on a video game. You may not like his particular style but the overall product will not be of poor or inconsistent quality, and that's what really counts in the end. And remember art direction is more than just nice looking portrait artwork, the lion's share is about design decisions and organization.

My 2 cents, though thanks for the vote of art confidence.

#399 Andrea C.

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:18 AM

Well, in my opinion the art style of IWD and BG are too different to blend in well with one another. You can use them together, but it won't be seamless: it will always look obvious that they come from a different source. Much like looking for portraits on the internet and picking one for CHARNAME that comes from a differet artist and context: it will look strikingly out of place when put next to the others.

... and yes, I think BG and BG2 have different art styles that don't blend too well with one another (but still do so better than IWD). Must be the reason why they saw fit to re-draw portraits for recurring BG1 characters rather than keeping the originals (which imho looked significantly better, and Jaheira is a notable example).

No idea how Nat Jones will tackle BG art, but the Friendly Arm Inn drawing on baldursgate.com sure looks great :)

#400 Solaufein

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:24 PM

Nat's art style is more suited for something in the World of Darkness setting than the Forgotten Realms. Which I find questionable.

Maybe he'll do characters since most of his samples are people or beings and not landscapes.
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