30 replies to this topic

[Qlon]

First post! I'm nervous..
Be gentle..pwease?

I have been playing both baldur's gate games a looooooooooong time, with and without mods, and I wanted to see if I might be able to contribute something to the scene! This idea's been in my head for way too long. So without further delay, I give you..Gyhrra.


(Plasmocat's pick of the litter. I'll ask for permission later, before publishing it!! Or a kind soul can make me one..??)

I should start with a note. She is intended to have Cloaked Dancer as kit for bard, using the prestige class as base.

They get three types of dances: Daze (stun?), Fatigue, and Fear. These will probably be special abilities, or the bard song itself can be altered based on her level (as with Jester kit). They also have a Surprise Strike that gives an +1d6 at 2nd level, and +2d6 at 4th level vs enemies affected by the dance. I think the levels need to be adjusted, and I also don't know if it can be coded that way. Such as extra damage when enemy is affected by bard song? Although I have no idea if enemies who are affected by Jester songs for instance also have a bard song status.

Disadvantages? I think restricted to mage robes only as body armor, disable pickpocket, possibly disable bard song if the songs are special abilities, perhaps something else? I'm open to suggestions.

If not Cloaked Dancer, then perhaps make her a thief and create a Shadow Dancer kit. Or make a new Dancer type kit. It really doesn't matter much for her dialogue, except for the dancing part.

Gyhrra is in her mid-30's, and hails from Sembia. I'm undecided about her alignment. She tends to go her own way, but usually doesn't pick sides or get involved in major struggles. She does have several things she gets passionate and fired up about, of course, such as her family, those she loves, a dislike for Harpers and fear of trolls. I'm leaning towards making her True Neutral, because she isn't good, evil, lawful or chaotic enough. But judge for yourself, and give me your thoughts!

Her story and quirks will be revealed in the mod! Why is she in Amn? She is looking for traces of her younger sister, who ran off to Amn with some man she had a crush on. Not trusting the individual, who seemed a true gentleman, Gyhrra set off to follow her sister to make sure she's okay. Yep, big sis loves her family a looooot! I won't spoil what happens, though!!

Romance!? Why YES! Although...

No, I kid. Of course there is a romance! All you guys line up if you so desire..
She doesn't care what race you are, and she doesn't give a goblin's arse about which alignment you lean towards. She does like guys who speak their mind, who are intelligent and able to hold a good conversation or discussion, and who care for their families. Harpers and trolls need not apply.

And soon, I will post banters! By Sashelas' wet dream, have mercy on this poor writing soul.

I'll stop buggin' ya'all for now. See ya later!

*leaves basket of goodies*

[Tempest]

Welcome to the forum and modding scene, Qlon.

A word of advice from a veteran modder: don't worry about the kit for now. Concentrate on the character first - she can always love dancing even if it's not an explicit part of her combat abilities.

[Stnemele]

Welcome to the forum and modding scene, Qlon.

A word of advice from a veteran modder: don't worry about the kit for now. Concentrate on the character first - she can always love dancing even if it's not an explicit part of her combat abilities.

Ditto that. Welcome and happy modding

Personally, I recruit/choose NPCs based on their characters, not their abilities/class/etc (because I am *that* gamer that will use cheats to beat a game because I only care about the story). As such, I would suggest posting something more detailed regarding her personality and a brief bio. Of course, you don't have to give everything away, but other people's input, especially veteran modders, can really help your mod/character along.

For the moment, she sounds like she's about as true neutral as you can get. Is this out of training or apathy? Is her only goal or focus her family? Why would she even consider joining the PC, who may or may not be saving Imoen (remember, the PC can pick if getting Irenicus is about revenge or getting Imoen back), especially because a simple rescue/revenge mission turns into something much, much bigger (and, as you said, she usually doesn't pick sides or get into major struggles)? The PC is a cause in and of him/herself, so why would Gyhrra devote herself to it? When she devotes herself to anything, does she go all-in or not at all? Is she the sort that's either hot or cold?

You also say that you've had her in your head for a while.... Care to reveal a bit more, hook our interest? Your description was more about her kit and less about her, so, to pose a question that I myself have been posed, why should I make a space for her in my party?

[Rhaella]

*waves the Sembia flag*

Cloaked Dancers are cool, but I'd recommend sticking with Shadowdancer, as there already is a modded kit for it. Still, don't worry about that right now. I'd like to hear more about the character also.

[Qlon]

Errrrm, well, good points. Maybe it doesn't work as well as I had thought. True Neutral works, but she's probably too damn selfcentered to give a rat's arse about the PC's cause. She'd likely end up using him/her to find her sis, then gtfo. Hmmm..I've ended up making a fool of myself! How embarrassing...

Sounds like it's back to the drawing board for me. Either give the girl a complete overhaul, or make a whole new character.
Thanks, though. It's why I posted this. To get feedback.

[Tempest]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but a general rule of thumb in modding is to remember that the NPC should be a supporting character in Charname's story, not the other way around. Characters with their own, well-defined motives and goals are fine and even admirable, even if those goals and motives are separate from Charname's, but they should have a good reason to stay with Charname.

Don't feel bad about your initial idea not working out. It sounds like it's your first shot in the dark, and very few first ideas work out well, at least not without heavy revision. This is particularly the case for ideas you've thought about for a long time before getting feedback on. In any case, feedback is what this wing of the forum is here for, and we as a community try to be constructive in our criticism.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Stnemele]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but a general rule of thumb in modding is to remember that the NPC should be a supporting character in Charname's story, not the other way around. Characters with their own, well-defined motives and goals are fine and even admirable, even if those goals and motives are separate from Charname's, but they should have a good reason to stay with Charname.

Don't feel bad about your initial idea not working out. It sounds like it's your first shot in the dark, and very few first ideas work out well, at least not without heavy revision. This is particularly the case for ideas you've thought about for a long time before getting feedback on. In any case, feedback is what this wing of the forum is here for, and we as a community try to be constructive in our criticism.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I echo this. She has potential, yes, and can certainly be interesting, but as Tempest said, she isn't the main character of this story. I was merely attempting to ask a few questions that will help clarify things for the player and for yourself. It is difficult to let go of characters you've created, developed, and are fond of (God knows I've done it SOOOOO many times), but she can always appear somewhere else or in something else.

So, here are some reasons she can join:
~For the fun of it
~To get back at the Cowled Wizards
~Because Irenicus might be a threat to her family
~Her little sister's last request ("This is important, Gyhrra, do it for me...")
~For the story (she is a bard, isn't she?)
~Curiosity....

The list goes on. Give her a good reason to join the party and she will. She can still be selfish, arrogant, and self-centered, but she's going to have to grow as a character (because all characters do), and that starts with enough perspective to join the PC.

This thread and idea isn't dead; just in progress. I'm sure there are more than enough people (myself included) who would be more than happy to help you develop her into an excellent NPC. This isn't saying that her character isn't that already -- because it may very well be -- but not all characters belong in every story.

So, good luck!

[Qlon]

I totally understand! Stnemele, you opened my eyes with your questions, and made me realize that I can't really answer them correctly. The idea, as it is, just isn't suited for this story.
I guess I can tweak things here and there. Is a reason to join with the PC enough to make it plausible?

[Stnemele]

I totally understand! Stnemele, you opened my eyes with your questions, and made me realize that I can't really answer them correctly. The idea, as it is, just isn't suited for this story.
I guess I can tweak things here and there. Is a reason to join with the PC enough to make it plausible?

Yes, having a reason to join the PC might be enough, depending on how well developed she already is and what she's like. Eve the most self-centered or unconcerned people care about something.

Personally, I would suggest posting what you already have here so that some of the more experienced modders can have a look at it. Things to post:
1) Her backstory and reason to be in Athkatla.
2) Her personality.
3) Her recruiting mission (if applicable)
4) Her personal quest.
All of these are in as much detail as you know. If there is anything you don't, it's alright. Characters never stay the same as they write. Chuck Palhanuik got the idea for the final twist in Fight Club from a friend who read the story and asked, "So... are they the same guy?" Development begins by knowing your character. You don't have to know them as well as yourself, but sometimes people can ask questions that help point you in the right direction. If you have questions of your own, share them. Ask opinions. You have the right to ignore or defend yourself -- just give a good reason. A lot of times people ask for things to be clarified because they have to. If something is purposefully convoluted, fine, but it'll have to be dealt with eventually.

Anyway, writing-rant aside (can't you tell I was an English Major?), I do think that Gyhrra can be a part of BG. Remember, Edwin uses the PC, but he's still a supporting character. She can begin one way and change, depending on the PC's influence over her. Doesn't mean an alignment shift, but a simple perspective shift will suffice.

This help? If you're hesitant to share this here, you're welcome to PM me as well. Just remember that our critique is meant to be constructive, not condoning. Every mod needs tweaking, regardless of what stage it is in development. Her character *does* seem solid... and that could've been her past. Maybe she came to Athkatla to find her sister, but came across things that made even Gyhrra lose her temper. She's in the middle of a hissy-fit of sorts when the PC meets her, demands help, and will storm off if it isn't given. After the help is given... She could stay for one reason or another -- her sister's request, the PC is hot, she needs to focus her rage/joy into something.... There are TONS of options, but we need to know some more about her before we can brainstorm a good joining reason

[Qlon]

I will see what I can do. I'm sorta nervous.

[Stnemele]

I will see what I can do. I'm sorta nervous.

Hey, don't be. The writing process isn't easy. Revisions are expected. Nothing is perfect the first time around and, oftentimes, other people's insight can improve things tremendously I promise you that there's interest in the mod... Just a bit of work needs to be done, as with all mods.

[Rhaella]

I will see what I can do. I'm sorta nervous.

I get that. I really do. But you have to keep in mind that if you're ever going to release her publicly, everyone with a computer and a copy of BGII is going to have access to her, and there are...elements within the BG community who are going to tear her apart just because they can. Everyone here is just trying to help, but you're going to need to develop a sort of ruthless objectivity with regards to your character and your writing if you're going to see this through. That can be hard, I know, but you'll need to be prepared for it, and sooner rather than later. =)

[Kaeloree]

Modding is a lot of fun, and you've got all of us here to support and help you. There's no need to be nervous!

[Choo Choo]

Don't be nervous - modding is, while difficult and frustrating, a labour of love and it's so very worthwhile and fun to see something you've done in-game!

Good luck! We're all behind you 100% here.

[Qlon]

Heehee, thanks. You guys 'n gals are so nice! I'm hardly worth it!

I get that. I really do. But you have to keep in mind that if you're ever going to release her publicly, everyone with a computer and a copy of BGII is going to have access to her, and there are...elements within the BG community who are going to tear her apart just because they can. Everyone here is just trying to help, but you're going to need to develop a sort of ruthless objectivity with regards to your character and your writing if you're going to see this through. That can be hard, I know, but you'll need to be prepared for it, and sooner rather than later. =)

Oh I don't care about random dicks who try to troll my mods by giving it all sorts of nasty commentary. It's more that I worry about releasing a mod with a bad storyline, bad talks, and so forth. What do you guys say to me starting off simple? Instead of trying to adapt my long lived Gyhrra into the game, why not make a rather fresh NPC? This one's been in my head for a few months, but I haven't done anything with her other than tabletop, so at least she's D&D!

[Rhaella]

Hey, either works. =) You could even take pieces of Gyhrra, tweak the things that don't work for BGII, and then see what else changes along the way.

[Qlon]

I know for a fact that it's going to be very hard for me to change Gyhrra just to squeeze her into BG. I know I shouldn't be so stubborn about it, but it's like giving your baby a nose correction because in another country a nose like that just looks wrong.

I'm edging towards adapting the tabletop one to BG. It's Forgotten Realms too, so even better. She...has issues, though. One in particular that might scare players off. I'll give a few small details before I'm ready to post the whole story.

*Female bodyguard (half elf or human fighter, uses two handed sword) of NG alignment. I want her to have a 2hand sword that does lightning damage, but not making it too powerful. Maybe +1 or +2 tops.
*No romance. All the regular banters and interjections.
*Has a non-contagious lung disease that will slowly kill her from the inside. She can become terminally affected at any given moment. Nobody knows when that will happen, though. She can still fight and function just fine, she just coughs a lot and has related symptoms.
*Reason for joining: Party meets her while she defends a group of children from bandits (human, hobgoblin, orc, ogre, whatever). She is outnumbered, and will be slaughtered if the player doesn't help her. If a child dies, she will not join. So she and the children must be kept alive, for her to thank you and repay the act with her joining as CHARNAME's personal bodyguard.
*She has a good heart and will defend the innocent and the harmless, as well as CHARNAME and those she cares for. Cruel and evil acts disgust her, but a paladin who becomes too overzealous is something she dislikes as well.
*She is afraid of spiders. Especially big ones.
*She has a sense of humor and is quite social, but she does not get along equally well with everyone. It means she does not automatically likes most good people and dislikes most evil people. She develops a small crush on Edwin, despite all his evilness.
*She used to have a lover, but he left her upon learning the nature of her disease. Yes, you meet him in the game. You'll be surprised who it is, haha!

Name, portrait, stats and such to be posted!

[Kaeloree]

Given what you've told us there, the only thing that I really know about her is she has a terminal illness. What makes her different from any other good-aligned NPC? What drives her, what makes her personality unique and her dialogue interesting?

[Rhaella]

I'd be careful about having a crush on Edwin. If she's secretly blown away by that INT 18 or gets drawn in by the mystique of the Red Wizards (which happens sometimes, but usually not with good-aligned folk), I can see it working, but he's just such an extremely unpleasant fellow in the game itself that having a crush on him might make her look a bit like a self-insert. Not saying it can't be done, but definitely make sure there's a legitimate reason she'd be anything but repulsed by the guy. Cause as entertaining as he is from the outside, I doubt he'd be half as fun if you actually had to put up with him on a day to day basis.

Also keep in mind that players might not really want to invest time and energy into a character they already know may drop dead at any moment, and make sure you don't make her terminal illness the heart of the character. You don't want to start getting gimmicky (not saying necessarily that you are), and a gimmick like that could really offend people.

Edited by Rhaella, 16 February 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Choo Choo]

Be very careful with getting too attached to your character, to the point where you're uncomfortable changing her for the better. I'm not saying that you shouldn't love your character, because you definitely should, but stay objective.