30 replies to this topic

[Qlon]

Thanks all. Well, I guess it's official that I suck horribly at this! *laughs* Yes, those are my words, not yours! I think I'll refrain from modding for now.

Edited by Qlon, 18 February 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[Tempest]

You're willing to listen to constructive criticism, which already puts you above the typical person with an idea for their first mod. I say again that you should focus on the character. Write an NPC idea with who they are first. Why and what can also be important in that they inform the who and provide some foundation, but they shouldn't be the driving force of the mod. True, you'll often come up with the what first, then the who and the why, but that's normal (at least in my experience at any rate).

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. You're listening and working on improving, which are very good signs. It's a rare idea, much less a mod NPC, that survives first contact with feedback completely intact.

[Choo Choo]

Oh no, don't refrain from modding - you don't suck at all, you're just new to it. You should've seen my first NPC idea, it was plenty worse than this!

[Qlon]

Are you guys sure you want me to continue setting a bad example for new modders? Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you!

I should focus on the who, right? The personality and stuff. I have a question. What makes a good NPC, well, good? I have tried to name two ideas, and the first clearly wasn't suited. I could tweak her, but I'm not so sure if I want to. The second sounds really good to my ears, but it seems that the Edwin crush and the disease are a bad idea. Yes, perhaps they are just extras, but if that isn't enough to make a character unique, then what is? Their personality? Honestly, how many different personalities are left to be thrown into BG? So much has been done, that it sounds like the players are kind of bored with characters that aren't super special and unique. I try to introduce something unique, and it's frowned upon. So, what am I doing wrong here? I don't know if there are many new special personalities out there anymore.

Edited by Qlon, 18 February 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[Rhaella]

I'd say there are infinite new personalities that can be thrown into BG. Honestly, for everything that has been done, there are at least ten things that haven't. I think the first thing you need to do is look at all the mods that are out there and try to find something that's missing that you'd like to explore. Lots of mods are local Amnish characters, maybe there's a country you'd like to have represented that isn't (hell, Minsc and Rashemen, Edwin and Thay, Yoshimo and Kara-Tur... it's as good a place to start as any). A halfling from Luiren, a Dambrathan half-drow (not recommended, but hey, it's an option), a Cormyrian lordling, an exiled Calishite, etc., etc. You'd need to make sure that the character isn't just a stereotyped representative of the country, but it's at least a decent place to start to get a unique character concept. That only works if you know a lot about the campaign setting, but hey, you might. Or you could look at character class options that haven't been touched upon before. I don't know, something like a half-elven cleric of an elven god might work. Make a gnome, dwarf, halfling, or half-orc, there are very few of those. Or toss together a multi-class and try to figure out why the character would have chosen to do both instead of just one.

But yeah, uniqueness needs to come from the character herself. You can add in something like a disease or a crush on Edwin, but don't use them as crutches. Don't use them as gimmicks to give her a special edge. I'd say come up with a ten word summary of something you haven't seen before, and then spend some time expanding it.

[Choo Choo]

The Edwin crush and the disease aren't, in and of themselves, bad ideas, but they aren't personality traits - they can't be all there is to her. Aside from Edwin crushes and terminal illness, who is she as a person - is she brave? Hotheaded? Sarcastic? Naive? Petty? Down-to-earth? Vain?

That's what you have to find out, because that's what will make her special, what will make players want to have her along for the ride.

You say that players get bored with characters that don't have a whole lot of... let's call them extras. In my experience, players get bored very, very quick by characters who are only *defined* by their extras. That's the difference between well-loved characters and boring ones, in my opinion; the former may or may not have extras but are memorable and lovable for who they are, while the latter may or may not have extras, but their extras don't matter because their personalities aren't compelling in any way.

[Qlon]

I do know a lot about the campaign, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm starting to see what you mean. I'm not sure about the new personalities, but you probably know more about it than I do. A unique character concept...okay! Let me see what I can cook up with my brain half-dead tonight.

Race/class related
[1] Dwarf
[2] Halfling
[3] Gnome/Svirfneblin
[4] Half-Orc
[5] Cleric (Elf/Dwarf/Halfling/Gnome)
[6] Thief (Half-Orc/Dwarf)
[7] Moon elves/Wild elves
[8] Jester
[9] Beastmaster
[10] Monk

Location related
[1] Desert dwellers (Plains of purple dust/Raurin the dust desert? Calimshan? Anauroch?)
[2] Sembia
[3] The Silver Marches
[4] The Shaar
[5] Chult
[6] Cormyr
[7] Chessenta
[8] Aglarond
[9] Lantan
[10] The Moonshae Isles

Personality related

[?] I really can't think of any right now. Brain died.

You say that players get bored with characters that don't have a whole lot of... let's call them extras. In my experience, players get bored very, very quick by characters who are only *defined* by their extras. That's the difference between well-loved characters and boring ones, in my opinion; the former may or may not have extras but are memorable and lovable for who they are, while the latter may or may not have extras, but their extras don't matter because their personalities aren't compelling in any way.

Yes, but as I said, if a personality is everything, or at least a big part, how does one make it compelling enough? That's also part of what I meant when I said that. Players seem to want really interesting personalities, that anything more towards regular, cliche, default, already used in BG or related game, is no longer captivating enough. So, what is captivating enough? Or am I mistaken and does it all depends on how well it's written? About gimmicks, BG is full of gimmicks that support the personalities. Would Minsc really be as enjoyable if he didn't have that space hamster thing going on? Would Edwin be Edwin if he wasn't muttering to himself and being quite humorous? Would Viconia be the same if she didn't use Drow language?

Edited by Qlon, 18 February 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Tempest]

To a large extent it does depend on how well it's written. Gimmicks that support the personality can be good, but be wary of overdoing it. There is clearly more to Minsc than just the space hamster thing, even though it's what he's best known for. Likewise Edwin and his muttering, and Viconia is much more than just "a drow." These characters have texture and depth past their obvious traits. That said, Minsc has never been a particularly interesting character. Sure, he's funny and no one really asks Minsc to be anything more than that, but there are glimmers of genuine wisdom and insight in the character. For an example of a really interesting character, I'd cite Anomen - he has internal and external conflicts, and he's very much a character with shining virtues and glaring flaws.

I'm not sure what else to say at this point, I'm afraid. I leave it to others who are better at this sort of thing.

[Rhaella]

The difference is between gimmicks that support the character and gimmicks that define the character. Viccy's got a lot going for her, and her use of the drow language is just a minor cultural tie in to the character itself. Edwin... he's as much defined by his megalomania and over-the-top (even by Thayvian standards) arrogance. Just because a personality trait is ridiculous doesn't mean it's not still a personality trait. I can't speak for Minsc because I don't care for the character, but again, there's more to him than just Boo.

As far as personalities go, different people want different things. Just make something consistent and believable and you'll be fine. =) You've got characters like Hubelpot who are well liked despite not having crazy convoluted stories behind them, and... then you've got people who took captivating to the extreme and fell very, very short. Figure out who you are, where you're coming from, where you're going, and why you're willing to stick with the PC despite the dangers. If you want help conceiving of a Cormyrian or Aglarondan, I'd be happy to lend a hand. =)

[Qlon]

The problem is, I really can't think of any interesting personalities. Maybe when I wake up, but probably not. Most I can think of sound too generic for this crowd.

[Choo Choo]

It's Moongaze.

Thread locked.

(For those who don't know who Moongaze is, he's a banned member with the unfortunate habit of making multiple accounts.)