102 replies to this topic

[Stnemele]

EDIT: This mod is, in all likelihood, not going to be completed beyond the stages posted here. My thanks for all the support received thusfar.

There is darkness in every man’s heart. Some choose to fight it… others embrace it.

Marcos Corvus is the latter.

He had never been good at anything except being bad. After being caught doing quite a few unsavory things, he was given the option to be executed or join the city guard. With little other choice, he chose the latter. There, at least, he found his place, becoming Captain Ruth Ivaness’s left hand — the man everyone turned to for the jobs that no one else wanted (or could) do.

To this day, he remains unhappy. Something is missing… Purpose.

A certain Bhaalspawn may be able to provide it.

Name: Marcos Corvus (or Corvinus; still up for debate)
Gender: Male
Race: Human
Age: 26
Height: About 6'1", maybe 6'2"

Thanks to Lava Del'Vortel for the portrait!

Personality:

Cold, calculating, and uncompromising. Though not evil, he believes that the ends justify the means. He enjoys the "hard" way of doing things, but will stand down and listen to reason. He refuses to let himself become a mindless killing machine. However, he is efficient and does not prolong things more than is necessary. He can be irreverent, is always blunt, and never dilutes the truth or hesitates to speak his mind, if asked. He regrets nothing and dwells on the past even less.

Though potentially paranoid of betrayal (which, admittedly, has never happened to him, but he can see the writing on the wall), he values true friendship above anything else because it is the one thing he covets most.

Though a member of the guard, he does not believe in justice. He is too jaded to think it possible. He will execute a slaver long before he would arrest one. As much as he comes off as evil, Marcos has one core belief that he will never, even compromise: to never let an innocent come to harm. This makes him a fierce hater of anyone using others, though it does not make him pitying or compassionate. He might save a woman from an attack, but he would also lecture/shout at her for being stupid enough to get herself into such a position.

Background:

Born in the Athkatlan Slums, Marcos was raised on the streets. His mother ran off before he could remember her and, in all honesty, he has no desire to even know her name. His father, Samson, never spoke of her. Perhaps Marcos's life was better for it. His father was not a kind man. He believed emotions weak and taught his son the same thing. If a man wanted anything, he would have to claw, tear, bite, and fight his way to the top, using any means necessary. There was only one exception to that rule: if it broke the backs of those in or below your position, do not do it.

But, as any rebellious teenager would, Marcos ignored the advice. He fell in with the dark underworld of Athkatla -- the Shadow Thieves, vampires... anyone with a criminal enterprise. He even briefly worked for the Iron Hand, before the world knew Sarevok's name.

At twenty, everything went wrong. A rival gang, in an attempt to gain leverage over Corvus, murdered Samson. Marcos, though he had never 'loved' his father, ran raging head-first into their trap. However, he broke through it. When the Athkatlan guard arrived, everyone was dead except Marcos. The Lieutenant in charge, Ruth, saw potential in the young man and offered him a deal: if he gave up a life of crime and joined the guard as her personal enforcer, she would waive all charges against him.

He had no choice but to accept. Six years later, he is well-known amongst the underbelly of society as Ruth's Left Hand. His job is to do everything that no other guard should, regardless of law. Knowing himself and his short temper, he gave himself a single rule: do not let harm come to the innocent. Anything else was permissible.

(Here, I should note that Marcos is relatively at peace with his father's demise. Though he doesn't speak of it or dwell on it, the wound is, in his mind, healed. Men die for all reasons. It was his stupidity, yes, but Marcos is not a man of regret. If he makes a mistake, he will fix it.)

Friendship:
Marcos isn’t good with people; just good at killing them. Any PC wanting to be his friend, though not obligated to deal with his inner demons, is definitely going to see them and have to accept them.

One thing I do want to make sure of is that he will NOT be angst-ridden or leaning too much on the PC for help. He has survived as long as he has without friends, so he doesn’t know what he’s missing, nor does he think he’s missing anything.

Romance:
Open to female PCs with a higher CHA (12-14). He is not easily swayed to change or open himself, so the PC has to be up to the challenge. The PC must be patient, kind, and willing to fight back every so often, not just roll over. He would respect her long before he ever cared for her, let alone loved her.The romance itself would be on the long side, by number of LTs, but finished in SoA. Potential to culminate before Spellhold, though I would have to write my LT scripts to confirm first. I'm not sure about race restrictions at the moment. Personally, I don't think he'd be comfortable with anything immortal (elves, for example, and not out of racism) or half-orcs (just because of the brutal nature... but he might consider it). I'm tempted to restrict it to humans and half-elves, but if there's an outcry for halflings, I will gladly listen (so, halfling players, cry out).

Limits as things stand now:

High CHA (12-14)

Restricted to humans and half-elves (no elves, half-orcs; potentially halflings)

Romance with another NPC:

Hell.

No.

He barely even likes any of the women in the party, let alone THAT much.

Class:
Will be some kind of fighter class, possibly Berserker
Alignment:
Chaotic Neutral
Stats:
STR 18/32
DEX 14
CON 17
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 8

Equipment:
Potentially armor and maybe a sword/shield. If I had to pick, his own armor.

Dialogue Examples:

Check the thread! There are the NPC banter drafts inside

Current Progress:

Working on NPC banters for SoA, to get his character down and ensure that I treat the Biowares appropriately.

Again, all of this is just me brainstorming. So... would anyone play him?

EDIT: Struck-through now irrevelvant or changed text, added NPC interactions as examples of his personality instead of PC interactions.

EDIT: Changed name from Merek to Marcos.

EDIT: Tweaked the banters with Imoen and Anomen; Added his age, height, bio, and a few lines to his personality description. Deleted strike-throughs of irrelevant text.

EDIT: Removed now obsolete NPC banters and directed readers to the thread itself for examples. Added "Current Progress" Section.

Edited by Stnemele, 02 June 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Rhaella]

Hmm. Careful with that CHA 15+ requirement. 12 is actually the upper end of normal, so while 13 or 14 would be fine for someone with high standards, more than that is really beginning to push it. Also regarding alignment... keep in mind that means are as much a part of it as ends are. You could be trying to save the world and end up as evil-aligned if your methods are questionable. I'd say he's definitely neutral rather than good. Anyone who's described as "selfish, harsh, and ruthless" is probably not at the top of the alignment chart. Possibly Chaotic Neutral but just as likely forced into a Lawful Neutral mold; unwavering in core principles but otherwise disturbingly capable of compromise is, to me, one of the more interesting applications of the LN alignment. His history with the city guard also points to that. He may not believe in justice, but he still seems a bit rigidly lawful to me.

Regarding fallen paladins... you get hefty penalties if you do that for real, so I'd advise against that. He does seem interesting, though I'd be concerned by the viability of a character who starts out that abrupt, unfriendly, and untalkative. He might be worth it after the 10th talk, but would your PC be at all interested in keeping him around long enough to find out? You'd probably need to compensate quite a bit for that. The whole "your fighting is wrong" concept irks me a bit as stands, not just because I worry about something like that triggering for an archer, but also because if a PC has full grand mastery in a fighting style, then it's probably inconceivable that they're doing it wrong and, depending on his class, may be better than he is. I'm also wondering what his interactions with a non-melee PC would look like.

[Kaeloree]

Case study on unfriendly NPCs: Iylos. Pretty much my first mod, and, in my opinion, most definitely my worst (unsurprisingly). I wanted an NPC that didn't fawn on the PC and actively disliked him/her, and it really did not go down terribly well. There's a careful line between "gruff" and "unfriendly," and though I'd say gruff/quiet is fine, it's not necessarily nice to be treated badly in a game you play for an escape!

I reckon avoid the fallen paladin route; paladins are the best-of-the-best-of-the-best, SIR type. They're the most loyal and devout, and hard as I might I can't see Marek as that person. It might be that I'm reading his personality wrong, but the way you've written it, I'm struggling to see the devout side, I guess. What makes him paladin material?

Looking forward to seeing more of his character! I'd definitely play around with writing some full-fledged PC conversations to get a hang of the multiple-responses, it'll probably change how you approach dialogue a bit and help to refine how you go about it

[berelinde]

K'aeloree has a point about writing PC dialogues in their entirety rather than just treating them like banters. I tried that for a while, thinking that it would speed up the writing process. All that really happened was that I wound up with one witty path through the dialogue and three kinda boring paths through the dialogue... and worse, they all pretty much did the same thing. I guess that's what happens when you write the mod for one specific PC and add the other PC responses as afterthoughts.

The character concept sounds interresting. As others have pointed out, the Fallen Paladin thing has some serious drawbacks, and it doesn't seem suited to his character. He sounds more like a regular fighter, or perhaps some kind of kit. I was also scratching my head over his alignment. I had him down as lawful neutral. His description sounds about as far from a good alignment as it is possible to be without actually being evil. And he does seem a huge champion of lawful behavior, even if he doesn't believe in justice. But you know him best. Maybe his chaotic good tendencies will come out later.

[Stnemele]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

His alignment was completely up in the air. I has no idea what would be appropriate in the least.

No Paladin for him, then. I was thinking of the berserker kit for the fighter.

Thank you for the cautions in writing the talks. I will keep those in mind as I proceed and do my best to have several different PCs that are likeable, too. Apologia: I brainstorm Using single characters.

I will change him to be less off putting in his initial talks. I thought about it yesterday and realized he wouldn't insult the PC like that. Hopefully I'll get a talk written today that'll be more appropriate.

Thanks again!

[Quester]

His name sounds Polish.

Yes, that's all I could comment on.

[Lava Del'Vortel]

Oh, what a lovely portrait xD

I already told Stnemele that I know at least 3 people with this name Marek is quite common name here, in Poland.

Edited by Lava Del'Vortel, 02 February 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[theacefes]

I don't really critique on characters as mine aren't the greatest in the world. But a new NPC is a good thing for the community so here is my feedback. Note that none of it is personal, just musings based on my experience as a modder. I'm not a stats/class girl but I do know a thing or two about character development:

Perhaps instead of showing us a bunch of examples of dialogue with a hypothetical PC that clearly a certain type of player plays as, you could show us some dialogue with another Bioware NPC. That way, we have a clear definition of the personalities of all participants - as it is now, the fact that you chose one route for PC responses shows that either very little research was done on how mod dialogue actually works (this *is* an RPG) or it's so jarring that it takes the reader (me) away from actually focusing on your character and learning about him.

Marek: Wrong.
PC: Uh.. What are you talking about?
Marek: Your fighting. It’s wrong.
PC: Sure. And you’re perfect...
Marek: You have no left guard, your stance is weak and unbalanced, you never check your blind spots, and you missed seventeen opportunities to kill your opponent on one blow.
PC: In case you hadn’t heard, I’ve already saved the Sword Coast once. It’s not like this is the first time I’ve done this.
Marek: (snort) Amateur.
PC: Then teach me.
Marek: No.
PC: But you just said —
Marek: Not my job. Fix it yourself.
PC: You’re a real charmer, you know that?
Marek: Yes. Stop bothering me. Now.

2 things:

You can have longer responses if you like. Baldur's Gate doesn't have the Mass Effect/DA2 dialogue wheel and most people don't talk like that. This reads like it was pulled from a Joss Whedon show - as much as I liked Buffy, some things are best saved for a show, and not a fantasy role playing game.

Second thing - Based on this banter and the other ones you've showed me, this is yet another NPC that always "wins" the banter. He's the one that will tell Anomen off, the one that will show the PC up. "You're the hero of the Sword Coast and the spawn of the dead god of murder but because I have an attitude and awesome hair, I am better than you and will tell you why. Your responses will consist of stereotypical female teen statements about feelings and periods. Additionally, can I be in your group? I love to travel." Mods like this have been tried and fail miserably.

.He will listen to reason. He may not like it, but he’ll listen to it... and then ignore it, if he sees necessary. He only knows how to be selfish, harsh, and ruthless. He is efficient and knows how to take orders, just as he knows when to stand up for himself and when to stand down.

You've contradicted yourself several times here. Which is he? Is he the most complex man in Faerun?

It would be a long romance, too, probably not culminating until nearly ToB, if not ToB itself.

Eep. Have you checked out the "I have a confession" thread on the forums here? Strangely enough, people don't stick around for ToB. Most expect the NPC to function and have some content but having a romance culminate at the end of the game is going to be tough to get people to wait for.

That's my take on it. Not trying to tear your character apart here but if I didn't think you had something worth playing I wouldn't have commented. From what you've posted, I can't decide why I'd want to take him along. He seems like a self-centered jerk. Why should I free up a spot in my party for him?

[Stnemele]

...and this is EXACTLY why I posted something before I started writing. Thanks for all the feedback (again)!

Marek is quite common name here, in Poland.

As I added in the first post, his name is under constrution as well. Marek, Maric, Marius, Marcos... or any suggestions anyone might have. I'm truly open. Marcos was my original name and I keep coming back to it, so it might be Marcos Corvinus. Thoughts? Votes? Please?

Perhaps instead of showing us a bunch of examples of dialogue with a hypothetical PC that clearly a certain type of player plays as, you could show us some dialogue with another Bioware NPC. That way, we have a clear definition of the personalities of all participants - as it is now, the fact that you chose one route for PC responses shows that either very little research was done on how mod dialogue actually works (this *is* an RPG) or it's so jarring that it takes the reader (me) away from actually focusing on your character and learning about him.

Awesome idea. I'm writing some up now and will update the first post with them when they're done.

You can have longer responses if you like. Baldur's Gate doesn't have the Mass Effect/DA2 dialogue wheel and most people don't talk like that. This reads like it was pulled from a Joss Whedon show - as much as I liked Buffy, some things are best saved for a show, and not a fantasy role playing game.

I am aware of that and intend to. However, the character is generally brusque. ...I also only decided to create him a couple days ago, so I'm still working through a great deal of his tone, dialect, and speech patterns.

Second thing - Based on this banter and the other ones you've showed me, this is yet another NPC that always "wins" the banter. He's the one that will tell Anomen off, the one that will show the PC up. "You're the hero of the Sword Coast and the spawn of the dead god of murder but because I have an attitude and awesome hair, I am better than you and will tell you why. Your responses will consist of stereotypical female teen statements about feelings and periods. Additionally, can I be in your group? I love to travel." Mods like this have been tried and fail miserably.

Very good point. Marek (or whatever I end up naming him) is used to being right, but I think he needs a degree of humility to him, based on his past and general motivators. If not humility, at least an admission of facts. The PC is a skilled warrior (totally ditching that talk). Anomen believes in honor. Jan is obsessed with turnips... Etc. One thing he does know is when he can and can't win. He might play dirty so that he will win (and he may very well be used to winning), but he wouldn't ask to join the PC unless he had good reason to. Actually, he wouldn't even care about who the PC was until they'd actually fought together for a while.

And, actually, I'd planned for him *not* to tell Anomen off. But that'll probably be an example I use in the first post.

You've contradicted yourself several times here. Which is he? Is he the most complex man in Faerun?

Fixed in the initial post. No, he is not the most complicated man in Faerun. Hard to get to and/or read? Yes. Complicated? Not really.

Eep. Have you checked out the "I have a confession" thread on the forums here?

Nope, but I've adjusted the romance plot accordingly.

From what you've posted, I can't decide why I'd want to take him along. He seems like a self-centered jerk. Why should I free up a spot in my party for him?

...Can't answer that one just yet, other than "curiosity." He's loyal, gets the job done, and would LOVE to kick Irenicus back to the Hells. He isn't shaken easily (if at all) and wouldn't be clinging to the PC in any way, even emotionally. No complicated personal quest, no moral crises... The REAL question is what would make YOU free up a place in your party?

[Rhaella]

I like Marcos. Helps give it a faux-Spanish feel, which is good for Amn anyway.

[edited to add] If you're going with Chaotic Neutral, you might want to check out Angelo at G3 (if you haven't already) to make sure you're not going to be fitting too similar a niche here. It's good to know what's come before. I wouldn't worry about it if you were playing up the more lawful aspects of his personality instead, but it's something to think about now.

Edited by Rhaella, 02 February 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Stnemele]

I like Marcos. Helps give it a faux-Spanish feel, which is good for Amn anyway.

Alright. I've rather already switched to Marcos in my head, so I'll go edit that away from Marek.

[edited to add] If you're going with Chaotic Neutral, you might want to check out Angelo at G3 (if you haven't already) to make sure you're not going to be fitting too similar a niche here. It's good to know what's come before. I wouldn't worry about it if you were playing up the more lawful aspects of his personality instead, but it's something to think about now.

I have played Angelo and, though I'll scan him again to make sure, I'm pretty sure that they aren't going to fall into the same category. As berelinde put it:

[He's]about as far from a good alignment as it is possible to be without actually being evil.

[Stnemele]

Substituted NPC interactions for original sample dialogues.

Changed name from "Marek" to "Marcos."

Edited by Stnemele, 02 February 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[theacefes]

No complicated personal quest, no moral crises

Perhaps not but if he still is a complex person, that might still bring some drama to the exchanges between him and the PC.

I think I kind of get the character you are trying to go for. The trick will be to see if it can be pulled off without excessive "emo"-ness.

The REAL question is what would make YOU free up a place in your party?

I'm a bit confused - isn't that what I just asked? Or are you asking me personally as a player?

EDIT: Wanted to add one more thing:)

Edited by theacefes, 02 February 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[Stnemele]

The REAL question is what would make YOU free up a place in your party?

I'm a bit confused - isn't that what I just asked? Or are you asking me personally as a player?

Sorry, unclear.

I'm asking you personally as a player. Keep in mind, he's gone through quite a few edits since your initial post... I'm curious what people's opinions are. I know he won't be universally liked (nothing/no one ever is), but I do want him to have appeal to the players.

Personally, I use NPCs for their characters, not their stats or class or anything like that. But I know that isn't true of everyone, either, which is why I'm asking for advice. On ALL of this

[theacefes]

Ah okay.

Read the edits. Better...much much better. Don't worry so much about coding the dialogue yet - you're still trying to get the character concept down. When you start/if you start production, I recommend coding as you write. And test a lot!

And don't worry about him being universally liked. We mod because it's enjoyable. Everyone has their different style of playing.

Now, as for me...I normally stick with a mostly vanilla good aligned party with one mod NPC, sometimes two. But I enjoy characters who are interested in doing the right thing, not necessarily the lawful, goody goody thing. So, I probably wouldn't take him with me, as my PC has enough deep dark drama going on in his/her life to babysit another deep dark person. I definitely wouldn't want to take a super rude person on an adventure with me, so I'm glad you've lightened up on that a bit. But I've tried my best to be objective in my advice and critique of the character as I realize that there is a demographic for characters like Marcos.

As for stats...you'll have to ask someone else. I know next to little about what is appropriate there.

Edited by theacefes, 02 February 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[Stnemele]

Now, as for me...I normally stick with a mostly vanilla good aligned party with one mod NPC, sometimes two. But I enjoy characters who are interested in doing the right thing, not necessarily the lawful, goody goody thing. So, I probably wouldn't take him with me, as my PC has enough deep dark drama going on in his/her life to babysit another deep dark person. I definitely wouldn't want to take a super rude person on an adventure with me, so I'm glad you've lightened up on that a bit. But I've tried my best to be objective in my advice and critique of the character as I realize that there is a demographic for characters like Marcos.

Well, thank you for the critique at all. I do really appreciate it My characters tend to be... well, Imoen-esque, so I don't mind the brooders at all (obviously).

And I'm glad it's better. That's far closer to what he's like in my head. Still, if what's in my head isn't what's coming out on paper, something's missing.

[Eric P.]

FWIW, I totally encourage your further development of this mod!
I'll wait to see your next update of what all you've set down for the personality, backstory, and expertise, to see if I have anything meaningful to contribute.

Happy modding!

[Stnemele]

FWIW, I totally encourage your further development of this mod!
I'll wait to see your next update of what all you've set down for the personality, backstory, and expertise, to see if I have anything meaningful to contribute.

Happy modding!

Thanks for the encouragement! I will be posting his full backstory later today (but, for the moment, real life--ie work--must take precedent).

I've also been attempting to sort out how/when he joins the PC. Rhaella suggested the tanner quest, which seems to fit him and the situation very well, but I'd like to know what people's feelings are on interrupting something like that which would, in essence, force the PC into a confrontation with Marcos (since the situation is him arguing with the Inspector about the... lax of the investigation).

Another option is to find Marcos shaking down a beggar in the docks, which refers to his personal quest of hunting down some low-lifes that have been exploiting certain political ties... Or something. I'm not quite sure exactly how his personal quest plays out just yet.

Thoughts on the joining?

[berelinde]

Just two quick comments.

== BANOMEN ~ I’ve heard stories about you, Corvinus. You are not a knight, and yet you perform noble deeds.~
(goes on to describe murder, arson, and mutiny)

It looks as if Anomen is unclear on the concept.

And that Imoen banter... might work for ToB Imoen, but SoA Imoen is too shell-shocked to ask her sister's boyfriend about his people skills. Honestly, that whole banter kinda puts me off. Yeah, I know about Imoen tricking Keldorn into thinking that she was groping him because he's got a hot bod, but she a) is obviously insincere even if Keldorn laps it up because he's a guy, and b) turns the whole thing into a joke at the end of it. She also winds Valygar up because he's fun to tease. She never asks Anomen about his equipment. If you let Imoen say something along the lines of "As if!" after his line that ends in "penalties will be severe" and then stop it there, it might improve it. Turning the banter into a discussion about his engineering specs is a little too heavy for our chipmunk with a sugar high and a death wish.

I know you're brainstorming at this point. There are bound to be banters you redo. Sometimes repeatedly. I'm just pointing out that BioWare NPC characterization can make or break a mod. It's impossible to get every NPC's voice right 100% of the time, but that's why review and revision is so important.

[Eric P.]

Both introduction ideas have potential. Having the character involved in the Skinner Murders might work well. Shaking down a beggar would get the player's attention, I think, because it's something you don't see every day, even in Athkatla, and the conversation might be amusing, depending on where during the incident the player/PC arrives on the scene.

Looking forward to checking out the update