172 replies to this topic

[aVENGER]

FYI, my in-game testing indicates that this engine issue is creating significant problems . In practice, every fifth casting of the Conjure X Elemental spell results in no summons at all, which is extremely unsatisfying for the player, to say the least.

Therefore, I've decided to revise the spell mechanics as follows. Conjure Elemental X spells now always summon one 12 HD elemental (100% chance). In addition to that, there is a 35% chance than a second 16 HD Greater Elemental will be summoned and a 5% chance that a second 20 HD Elder Elemental will be summoned. This will ensure that you always get at least one elemental per casting. When/if Ascension 64 or BGEE fix this annoying engine bug, I will revert the spells to proper PnP norms.

Edited by aVENGER, 08 April 2012 - 12:46 AM.

[Aranthys]

How about having the summon elemental spell effect be based on caster level rather than luck ?

[aVENGER]

How about having the summon elemental spell effect be based on caster level rather than luck ?

That works fine for something like Spell Revisions, but aTweaks is based on PnP rules and they are pretty clear about the summoning process.

For reference, the current summoning implementation as as close to PnP as the engine allows.

[Pol]

FYI, my in-game testing indicates that this engine issue is creating significant problems . In practice, every fifth casting of the Conjure X Elemental spell results in no summons at all, which is extremely unsatisfying for the player, to say the least.

You could try setting the spell header probability to 100% chance to summon an "intermediate" creature (which is invisible and undetectable) and then replaces itself with (or polymorphs into, although THAC0, saving throws and HD will need to be set independently of polymorph stats) one of the proper elemental forms - because staggered probabilities in BCS response blocks are more reliable than in spell headers.

There will be a momentary delay before it's script kicks in (main reason I don't use invisible creatures for spell effects), but you would have one anyway with any summoned creature.

The only problem with a "replaced" creature is that it won't recognize the LastSummonerOfMyself() object.

[aVENGER]

The only problem with a "replaced" creature is that it won't recognize the LastSummonerOfMyself() object.

I thought about it but decided against it for this very reason as LastSummonerOf() is fairly important for the mage versions of the elemental summoning spells (mental combat) and is also used as a safety check in a number of aTweaks' elemental scripts.

Also, I'm generally not a big fan of using the "invisible creature workaround" in spells. Therefore, the current implementation will remain until the root cause of the problem is resolved, either through TobEx or BGEE.

[aVENGER]

Just a quick heads up. As of the upcoming v3.82 it will be possible to disable the 3 round mental combat phase which arcane spellcasters go through when summoning elementals. A simple console command will toggle mental combat on/off.

CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("RR#NOEMC","GLOBAL",1) - mental combat with elementals summoned by arcane spellcasters (0 = on, 1 = off)

In addition, turning mental combat off will ensure that elementals summoned by arcane spellcasters are always friendly (i.e. just like their divine counterparts) and never go berserk.

[aVENGER]

Here's another small update:

Unsummoning creatures

As of v3.82 it will be possible to dismiss aTweaks' summoned Elementals and Fey creatures by selecting "Unsummon" from the creatures' special abilities menu. In the future, all of aTweaks/RR summoned creatures will have this option. However, note that uncontrollable creatures (such as Fiends) cannot be unsummoned in this manner.

Edited by aVENGER, 29 April 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[William Imm]

Great. (If you want to let Enkida know that she has one more icon to BG2-ify, go right ahead.)

[aVENGER]

Great. (If you want to let Enkida know that she has one more icon to BG2-ify, go right ahead.)

Actually, the version I posted had already been baldurized.

The original IWD-style icon was using a much more saturated color palette and didn't have a "stone slab" background.

[phordicus]

Are you using a custom gender or sectype for the unsummon, or is it via script?

[aVENGER]

Are you using a custom gender or sectype for the unsummon, or is it via script?

Nothing so complicated, I'm merely using opcode #168 along with the relevant VVC animation and the accompanying display string. Technically, the "Unsummon" ability is a self-targeted spell which can be accessed from a creature's special abilities menu (star icon) and when you use it the relevant creature disappears, thereby freeing up a summon slot. See rr#usumn.spl for more details.

On an interesting side note, I have a hunch that the engine internally uses opcode #168 when it unsummons creatures by default (i.e. after the duration expires). Maybe Ascension64 or the GemRB folks can confirm this.

Edited by aVENGER, 29 April 2012 - 09:43 PM.

[phordicus]

Ohhhh. I was assuming the ability was on the summoner in case the summoned was stunned or charmed or otherwise incapable of using an ability!

(I'm tearing down my normal rig for painting so I've got no access to my games...)

Edited by phordicus, 30 April 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[GeN1e]

Have a look at scsii/priest/priest.tph, it duplicates three elemental princes (and Ben-Hadar from Refinements) into NPC-summonable versions.

Also look at scsii/misc/minor.tph, it copies UDELDE as DW#ELDEE to upgrade the Druid Grove. Considering aTweaks' Elder Elementals are much tougher than their vanilla versions, you may want change it into Greater Elemental.

[aVENGER]

Thanks.

I'll have a look at those when I do another update.

[Andrea C.]

FYI, my in-game testing indicates that this engine issue is creating significant problems . In practice, every fifth casting of the Conjure X Elemental spell results in no summons at all, which is extremely unsatisfying for the player, to say the least.

I've just turned this into an official bugfix request to the developers of BG:EE (I posted it on the official game forum).

[aVENGER]

I've just turned this into an official bugfix request to the developers of BG:EE (I posted it on the official game forum).

Thanks!

[Andrea C.]

You're very welcome.

Cameron Tofer (BG:EE programmer) has asked that all bugfix request are formulated in terms of "current behavior" and "desired behavior", with no need for further justification or explanation. When I put forth this bugfix request, I have merely cut&pasted what you wrote (including the link). Since you know this bug a lot better than I do, could you please PM me a "current behavior / desired behavior" description for it so that I can edit my post on the BG:EE forums accordingly?

[aVENGER]

It's somewhat challenging to describe this issue accurately. I think Wisp explained it best in his post here.

Basically, the engine does not seem to handle probability-staggered effects in a reliable manner. The desired behaviour is that the effects should work as advertised instead of randomly being applied multiple times or not applied at all.

[Andrea C.]

Done and done, I've used most of Wisp's post plus a sentence from yours I'm waiting for you on the other side, now!

[GeN1e]

I have fought Shoal yesterday. Could you make nereids a touch less determined to kiss charmed targets? I understand many people may appreciate a scantly clad female rushing through the crowd to kiss them to death - but not literally! On the first try she charmed Edwin, ran up to him from half a screen away and killed. Then she charmed PC, ran back and overed the game completely.