172 replies to this topic

[Shaitan]

Thanks a lot, very good improvements

[Salk]

Yes, I see your point in those additions now.

Keep up the excellent work!

[aVENGER]

After some consideration, I've decided that aTweaks will have 5 tiers of Elementals. The different varieties will be:

• Tier 1: Lesser Elemental (8 HD)
  
• Tier 2: Regular Elemental (12 HD)
  
• Tier 3: Greater Elemental (16 HD)
  
• Tier 4: Elder Elemental (20 HD)
  
• Tier 5: Elemental Prince (24 HD)

All Elementals will have base stats which are appropriate for their Hit Dice values. Elder Elementals will replace the 24 HD Elementals from the original game, but they will have the same special abilities as Greater Elementals, save for better base stats. The Elemental Princes will have their original PnP stats in the main component, but the optional component will now give them 24 HD instead of merely restoring their Bioware stats. Their hit points and damage will also be improved and they will become more powerful than Elder Elementals in every single aspect. I believe that this gradual increase in power will result in a smoother and more balanced gameplay experience.

[GeN1e]

Mostly the same how it was planned for Spell Revisions v4. Too bad there are no Prime Elementals in BG2... They'd make a much better sub-boss fight than evil Princes, whom a ToB party mows down in a moment.

[aigleborgne]

After some consideration, I've decided that aTweaks will have 5 tiers of Elementals. The different varieties will be:

• Tier 1: Lesser Elemental (8 HD)
  
• Tier 2: Regular Elemental (12 HD)
  
• Tier 3: Greater Elemental (16 HD)
  
• Tier 4: Elder Elemental (20 HD)
  
• Tier 5: Elemental Prince (24 HD)

It is a good idea to change elder from 24 to 20.
I have let them at level 24 to stick with spells description, but summoning a level 24 elemental is quite overpowered (even if it is only 5% chance).
It wasn't in vanilla because elementals were quite broken but it will be with a proper elemental mod.

So, it is a welcome change

On a side note, will you use TobEx to make elemental transformation undispellable?
And is shapechange's spell affected by PnP elementals? (cre and weapons)

Edited by aigleborgne, 26 February 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[aVENGER]

It is a good idea to change elder from 24 to 20.

Thanks. It's based on the PnP description of the Conjure X Elemental spells. In PnP AD&D, the most powerful elemental which these spells can summon can be anywhere between 20 and 24 HD (20 + 1d4) and I chose the lowest value for aTweaks.

On a side note, will you use TobEx to make elemental transformation undispellable?

Not at this time.

And is shapechange's spell affected by PnP elementals? (cre and weapons)

Yes. Druids shapechanged into elemental form will receive all the stats, immunities and special abilities of an Elder Elemental. The same goes for an Avenger druid shapechanged into a Fire Salamander.

[aigleborgne]

On a side note, will you use TobEx to make elemental transformation undispellable?

Not at this time.

It is sad because when you get elemental transformation, you are usually in ToB and dispel is a common thing.
druid shapeshifting is natural and should be undispellable, which is easy to do with TobEx.

Yes. Druids shapechanged into elemental form will receive all the stats, immunities and special abilities of an Elder Elemental. The same goes for an Avenger druid shapechanged into a Fire Salamander.

Well, I meant wizard's spell 9 shapechange :-)

[aVENGER]

It is sad because when you get elemental transformation, you are usually in ToB and dispel is a common thing.
druid shapeshifting is natural and should be undispellable, which is easy to do with TobEx.

I agree that dispellable shapeshifting is silly. However, I'm reluctant to include TobEx unless a major mod feature absolutely requires it.

Well, I meant wizard's spell 9 shapechange :-)

Ah yes, that will be affected too. Wizards will change into 12 HD elementals, as was the case in the original game, but they will receive aTweaks' elemental traits, stats and weapons.

[Wisp]

It has been a while since I looked at the undispellable-magical-weapons hack, but it may be possible to set aTweaks up to make use of it if the user installs ToBEx on his own. IIRC, making a weapon undispellable is merely a matter of setting an otherwise unused bit on the item.

[aVENGER]

It has been a while since I looked at the undispellable-magical-weapons hack, but it may be possible to set aTweaks up to make use of it if the user installs ToBEx on his own. IIRC, making a weapon undispellable is merely a matter of setting an otherwise unused bit on the item.

Cool, if we can account for this without shipping TobEx, I'm all for it.

[aigleborgne]

I agree that dispellable shapeshifting is silly. However, I'm reluctant to include TobEx unless a major mod feature absolutely requires it.

No problem but it has been a problem during 10 years and can hopefully now be solved.
I will have to patch your weapons myself because I can't play with dispellable shapeshifts

Ah yes, that will be affected too. Wizards will change into 12 HD elementals, as was the case in the original game, but they will receive aTweaks' elemental traits, stats and weapons.

12HD only ?? I thought it was more 16 HD.
It seems a bit weak compared to others forms (Iron golem for example). But we will see

[aigleborgne]

Back to More sensible elemental encounters, I think that you should consider including Air Aspect and converting it to an air elemental or something close.
There is only one specimen found in Durlag's Tower, in a room full of Invisible Stalker.
In vanilla, despite its name, it is like a baby wyvern, but should definitly be an elemental of air.

[aVENGER]

Back to More sensible elemental encounters, I think that you should consider including Air Aspect and converting it to an air elemental or something close.

I've actually given that some thought, but eventually gave up on it for two reasons.

First, there is no such thing as an Air Aspect in PnP. It's a creature that's completely made up by Bioware. Second, looking at the stats, it seems like the developers basically made a hasted super-Wyvern with beefed up physical resistance. It even has a Wyvern specific script assigned to it. In so far, nothing but the name implies that they had intended for this creature to be something from the Elemental Plane of Air. Now, I could easily turn it into an Aerial Servant or a 12 HD Air Elemental, but somehow I feel that there just isn't enough justification for that. What do you guys think?

[aigleborgne]

Back to More sensible elemental encounters, I think that you should consider including Air Aspect and converting it to an air elemental or something close.

I've actually given that some thought, but eventually gave up on it for two reasons.

First, there is no such thing as an Air Aspect in PnP. It's a creature that's completely made up by Bioware. Second, looking at the stats, it seems like the developers basically made a hasted super-Wyvern with beefed up physical resistance. It even has a Wyvern specific script assigned to it. In so far, nothing but the name implies that they had intended for this creature to be something from the Elemental Plane of Air. Now, I could easily turn it into an Aerial Servant or a 12 HD Air Elemental, but somehow I feel that there just isn't enough justification for that. What do you guys think?

There is already a wyvern's encounter in Durlag : 3 ancient wyverns.
Then, Air Aspect is found in a room full of invisible stalkers, which belong to air elemental. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so.
These trials are usually on a theme :
- a strong polar bear with winter wolves
- phoenix guards
- oozes
- invisible stalkers with a super wyvern ?

I would better see a 12hd air elemental
Aerial servant could be good too.

[aVENGER]

Then, Air Aspect is found in a room full of invisible stalkers, which belong to air elemental. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so.
These trials are usually on a theme

That's a good point. Thinking about it some more, there might be another way to handle this.

aTweaks could treat the Air Aspect as a unique Air Elemental (i.e. just like Shoal is treated a unique Nereid). This would allow the creature to retain the superior physical stats that it was given by the Bioware developers, while also making it into a proper aTweaks Air Elemental, with the accompanying PnP traits and abilities. Also, all Wyvern specific items and scripts would be removed. Thoughts?

[aigleborgne]

aTweaks could treat the Air Aspect as a unique Air Elemental (i.e. just like Shoal is treated a unique Nereid). This would allow the creature to retain the superior physical stats that it was given by the Bioware developers, while also making it into a proper aTweaks Air Elemental, with the accompanying PnP traits and abilities. Also, all Wyvern specific items and scripts would be removed. Thoughts?

If Bioware would have made Durlag's Tower within BG2's engine, I think we would have got more diversity in monsters. (greater ghoul, crypt crawler, air aspect, greater wyvern, all could be replaced by PnP monsters).
It was probably due lack of time and/or resources.
They took a baby wyvern, improved it a lot, and name it Air Aspect. If they had air elemental animation, it would probably has been changed.

[Andrea C.]

aTweaks could treat the Air Aspect as a unique Air Elemental (i.e. just like Shoal is treated a unique Nereid). This would allow the creature to retain the superior physical stats that it was given by the Bioware developers, while also making it into a proper aTweaks Air Elemental, with the accompanying PnP traits and abilities. Also, all Wyvern specific items and scripts would be removed. Thoughts?

Sounds like a sensible solution. I agree with aigleborgne when he says that had Bioward had the Air Elemental animation available at the time of designing Durlag's Tower, the Air Aspect would've probably been that.

[Salk]

aTweaks could treat the Air Aspect as a unique Air Elemental (i.e. just like Shoal is treated a unique Nereid). This would allow the creature to retain the superior physical stats that it was given by the Bioware developers, while also making it into a proper aTweaks Air Elemental, with the accompanying PnP traits and abilities. Also, all Wyvern specific items and scripts would be removed. Thoughts?

I would welcome this.

[Dakk]

aTweaks could treat the Air Aspect as a unique Air Elemental (i.e. just like Shoal is treated a unique Nereid). This would allow the creature to retain the superior physical stats that it was given by the Bioware developers, while also making it into a proper aTweaks Air Elemental, with the accompanying PnP traits and abilities. Also, all Wyvern specific items and scripts would be removed. Thoughts?

I would welcome this.

Agreed!

[Beleg33]

In my opinion the wyvern is fine, it's a flying creature so it's related to the air environment, the same way polar bears and winter wolves represent the ice environment, they could as well be ice trolls/frost salamanders or whatever lives in cold places.