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[idea] Get more BG1 NPCs into BG2 --via BGT or elsehow


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#1 Azazello

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:59 AM

{extended discussion from thread Question about NPC's in BG1 BG2 and BGT}

Here's a suggested description of the concept...
Spoiler


Edited by Azazello, 09 January 2012 - 03:12 AM.

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#2 Azazello

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:05 AM

As well as importing the (not-dead-in-canon) Bioware NPCs, there should be options to give transfer of stats/spells and little "Oh, I know you!" talk for improved contunity. This should also be for mod-added BG1 npcs as well.

EG: If Kuylock's [sic] Xan was installed and CHARNAME had him during the BG1 part of the game, he should reconize CHARNAME when he meets him during BG2,

There should be options for importing BG1 mod NPCs (eg: Indria, Gavin), or BG1 megamod NPCs (Bub Snicket, Jet'Laya, Drizzt [ who will get improved contunty and BG1 stats transfered to RoT or Octavian's version]). Either way, improved contunity is a must for these types of stuff.

The custom NPC mod idea sounds intriguing.

For those of you who know dialogue scripting very well: would it be (easy or simple or advisable or ...) to append dialogue to existing NPCs' DLGs?
{With permission of the mod's developer, of course.}

(Isn't this what's done in BG1NPC mod?)

#3 berelinde

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:36 AM

Easy? Not sure. Advisable? Probably not. I can't speak for any of the other modders who wrote full-saga NPCs, but the sole reason I created separate files/cre/etc for each game rather than just using the original one for both was because the script and dialogue files are insanely large. The engine has to make N passes through the script per second (don't remember how many... might be 16). If the engine is not able to make that many passes through the script in an actual second, the length of the second increases. You get lag. Not stutter. Overall slowdown for the whole game.

Up to you how you proceed, but I will say this. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the bug reports when users complain that their games are unplayable. Modders are already under a lot of pressure when somebody with a mega-install posts "bug reports" that turn out to be mod incompatibilities with mods they've never even heard of.

There's also the little issue with PID. I'm *fairly* sure that I coded it to check for the "end of bg1" variable (no longer certain... it has been a while) in the BG1 portion, but that doesn't mean that every modder did. You may wind up with a fairly decent-sized headache on your hands.

Again, I'm saying this as a heads-up about challenges you may encounter. The rest is your call.

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#4 William Imm

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:03 PM

Here's a better explanation of my idea - seamless NPCs. While the origional componet just imports BG1 npcs, it can create duplicates running around if another mod installs them. My idea is, that if another mod installs a BG1 npc, then the BGT componet will not create duplicates - it will give a small contunity expansion for them and allow transfer of stats. If a NPC died in BG1 and was not resurrected, then the NPC should appear dead in BG2. Don't know how this applies to NPCs like Xzar... Which raises a question: If Xzar was dead meat in BG1, should the Jah. Romance skip over the Harper stuff (with Xzar trying to get to Montaron and such)?

All NPCs imported by that componet share the same stats, learned spells, and classes/kits. I think there should be options for BG1 mod NPCs (Mur'Nerth, Indria, Finch, Gavin)? Gavin is a intresting case in that he has a BG and a BGII version - should there be a transision componet that caries over his stats?
At this point, I'm not really doing much Baldur's Gate related. More focused on Skyrim modding and the Born of Legend tabletop roleplaying game. Don't expect much activity here.

#5 ShadowTek

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:33 PM

Here's a better explanation of my idea - seamless NPCs. While the origional componet just imports BG1 npcs, it can create duplicates running around if another mod installs them. My idea is, that if another mod installs a BG1 npc, then the BGT componet will not create duplicates - it will give a small contunity expansion for them and allow transfer of stats. If a NPC died in BG1 and was not resurrected, then the NPC should appear dead in BG2. Don't know how this applies to NPCs like Xzar... Which raises a question: If Xzar was dead meat in BG1, should the Jah. Romance skip over the Harper stuff (with Xzar trying to get to Montaron and such)?

All NPCs imported by that componet share the same stats, learned spells, and classes/kits. I think there should be options for BG1 mod NPCs (Mur'Nerth, Indria, Finch, Gavin)? Gavin is a intresting case in that he has a BG and a BGII version - should there be a transision componet that caries over his stats?


I cant express enough how cool I would love to see this mod!! For BGT its a must!!! Don't you think? IMO for a true continuation between the games, a mod like this is a MUST!!!

Edited by ShadowTek, 05 January 2012 - 04:35 PM.

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#6 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 01:46 AM

ok guyz {gender-indefinite spelling}, let's get crackin' on this idea. I'll kick off the flame-war, er, debate.

First, I'll this reserve this post for future expansion of general comments.

This might be the post where a Summary of Progress is placed {though, not promising that it actually will...}

#7 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:09 AM

This post is reserved for ground rules, mission statement, etc.

Having assisted with the development of other mods, here are some my suggestions for the basic growth of such a component or mod:

  • Clear and structured design of what the mod should do, and not do.

- This should happened before any coders take on the content development.

  • Keep It Simple S: the content should do very few things, do them well, with no additions of favorite tweaks, options, etc. by either the coders, contributors or originators. {Development-by-consensus--not always simple!}
  • Open code development: no one person owns the code, not even the coders--this is a community effort. Additional, no one coder will be locked into having to maintain or update the content. Maintainers ('custodians' or 'archivists', if you prefer) can be assigned to ensure the content is maintained within it original purposes.
  • Respect the developers, maintainers and content of custom mods.

- The best way to convince custom modders to support this effort is to describe clearly and fully what is this component/mod's intention, how it does that, and how it augments but does not interfere with the overall intent of the developer's mod.

  • Respect those who have contributed in the past, and will in the future.

- The idea for this content is not original--and future development may present a better implementation that is documented here. So let's support all contributions, even if it means sunsetting this content for the benefit of another development.

[More To Come]

#8 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:33 AM

ok, let's start having some fun -- which NPCs are potentially in the content's intents?

already modified by BGT Tweaks
Alora
Branwen
Eldoth
Kagain
Kivan
Shar-teel
Skie
Xan
Yeslick
_____________________
Bardo Furfoot
Bub Snikt
Conchobhair Strongblade
CúChoinneach
Ferthgil Trollslayer
Jet'Laya
Keira Silverstring
Skeezer Lumpkin
Will O'Hara


From custom content - DSotSC
Bardo Furfoot
Bub Snikt
Conchobhair Strongblade
CúChoinneach
Ferthgil Trollslayer
Jet'Laya
Keira Silverstring
Skeezer Lumpkin
Will O'Hara

From custom content - NTotSC (Is this separate section needed?)

modified by BG2 mods - Drizzt's Saga
Drizzt

modified by BG2 mods - NeJ
(Xan?)

modified by BG2 mods - TDD
Kagain
Kivan
Montaron
Shar-Teel
Xzar
Yeslick

modified by BG2 mods - Tortured Souls
Coran
Dynaheir


From Original Game
Ajantis
Alora
Branwen
Coran
Dynaheir
Edwin
Eldoth
Faldorn
Garrick
Imoen
Jaheira
Kagain
Khalid
Kivan
Minsc
Montaron
Quayle
Safana
Shar-Teel
Skie
Tiax
Viconia
Xan
Xzar
Yeslick



REFERENCES
Wikipedia: List of Baldur's Gate characters, Party Members
SHS: BG1 & BG2 NPC Information List (great local resource--let's keep it updated)
SHS: NPCs added by [classic version of BP]


[More To Come]

Edited by Azazello, 09 January 2012 - 03:32 AM.


#9 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:02 AM

Let's talk content options...

The original option in BGT Tweaks:

Import only NPCs that are in your party - Classic BGT option

From a choice of Alora, Branwen, Eldoth, Kagain, Kivan, Shar-teel, Skie, Xan, Yeslick, Dark Side of the Sword Coast and Northern Tales of the Sword Coast joinable NPCs (if installed)-- if the NPC is in the party at the time of the BG2 transition--and is not dead--then they will be imported into Shadows of Amn.

Some of them will not be in your party at the start of SoA--they can be found in other locations around BG2.

This component is NOT compatible with The Darkest Day, Tortured Souls, and Never Ending Journey mods.



#10 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:06 AM

Option 2 (1?):

Import most NPCs that are not dead in either BG1 or BG2 - expanded BGT option

As long as the NPC is not dead in BG1 or BG2, they will be imported (with a few exceptions), regardless of whether they're a party member or not.

Examples of NPCs that will NOT be imported:
- Dynaheir
- any NPC that was killed during your adventuring.

Most of them will not be in your party at the start of SoA--they can be found in other locations around BG2.

This component is NOT compatible with The Darkest Day, Tortured Souls, and Never Ending Journey mods.



#11 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:09 AM

Option 3 (2?):

Import only NPCs that are in your party - 'Big Mod' option

This is the same as the 'Import only NPCs that are in your party - Classic BGT option' above; in addition it makes this component compatible with The Darkest Day, Tortured Souls, and Never Ending Journey mods. For example, all BG1 NPCs recreated by TDD will be expanded from their BG1 imports, without losing any content from TDD.



#12 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:12 AM

Option 4 (3?):

Import most NPCs that are not dead in either BG1 or BG2 - 'Big Mod' option

This is the same as its expanded counterpart above; in addition it makes this component compatible with The Darkest Day, Tortured Souls, and Never Ending Journey mods.



#13 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:16 AM

Reserved for ALL future options.

#14 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 05:51 AM

If ever this is going to be true ... UP UP UP for such a mod!

Continuos NPC is really a sort of must. I'll throw my 2 cents here ... i'd like to see a mod able to "put" some of the NPC from BG2 in BG1 as well, so that we have a continuity also for some of them :P

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#15 Anduin Shadow Mantle

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:13 PM

:woot: Gone a few days and POW!

So much good news and stuff coming from the forums these days. A big thumbs up from me :coolthumb:

No one as far as I am aware has made BGII characters available in BGI. I would love to be able to get Mazzy earlier maybe visiting a cousin in Gullykin? Keldorn, on temple business at the temple of Helm Baldur's Gate... Hier Dallas, playing a few Ballads at Nashkell Carnival. Nalia, caught stealing and thrown into the Jail at Baldur's Gate. Pretty easy to give reasons as to them being there... coding may be trickier :mellow:

#16 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:20 PM

... i'd like to see a mod able to "put" some of the NPC from BG2 in BG1 as well, so that we have a continuity also for some of them :P

mm75

No one as far as I am aware has made BGII characters available in BGI. I would love to be able to get Mazzy earlier maybe visiting a cousin in Gullykin? Keldorn, on temple business at the temple of Helm Baldur's Gate... Hier Dallas, playing a few Ballads at Nashkell Carnival. Nalia, caught stealing and thrown into the Jail at Baldur's Gate. Pretty easy to give reasons as to them being there... coding may be trickier :mellow:

Sorry gang, you'll have to start your own project discussion thread for that one. But I do like the idea!

#17 10th

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:17 PM

Conchobhair Strongblade
CúChoinneach

Those two leave the party permanently after their story arcs in DSotSC.

Ajantis:
Take a look at Jastey's Ajantis mod for BG2. Someone would only have to add a continuity script.

About BG1 NPCs in BG2 in general:
Take a look at Smiling Imp's BG1 NPCs for SoA (and ToB), if all of them would get a continuity script the project would be well on its way to completion.


10th

Edited by 10th, 09 January 2012 - 02:17 PM.

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#18 ShadowTek

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 11:23 AM

One thing that should be added (or rather fixed) is the the NEJBGTv1.2 Imoen component from the original thread this started from, so the charming rouge can transfer over.
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My Guides:
1. How to install BWP for newbies My Guide for Spellhold on installing the BWP Mega-mod.
2. How to Install Infinity Animations for newbies My step by step guide to installing this must have mod.

Main Stuff for BWP:
1. FAQ for the Megamods The Main Megamod FAQ
2. BiG World Project The Mega Mod Installer
3. BWP Mod List The most up to date Mod list for BWP installs

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2. Throne of Bhaal Extender This mod adds new functions to BGT games
3. All Infinity Animations Mods This mod adds new animations to the game.
4. Widescreen Mod This mod allows you to play BGT in widescreen mod
5. Generalized Biffing This mod will speed up your game allot