I was going to ask mainly about spawns but there's already that other thread that explains how it works.
I'm definitely for fixed, non player-levelled spawns, but it's still a system that needs to be tuned (couldn't care less if it's not accurate BG1, with all these mods no one cares about "faithful" as much as "improved").
It seems that vanilla BGT still randomly picks its spawns, just not considering the player's level. So how are the creatures and their numbers picked? Zone based? How much variance? If it really spawns things too randomly (a bandit + a monster) then it's not much better if it switches from "level-based" to "just random" and should be adjusted to be plausible.
Is there going to be a difference long term about experience gained? I'm looked forward to a heavily modified BGT game, but sticking to vanilla content (no BP, no other modules beside Unfinished Business and AI/Tactics/Banter mods). I've set the experience to be at 50% for quests & creatures, considering that it is going to be an extensive thing and I don't want to outlevel everything.
Another very minor thing I noticed is that the chanters in Candlekeep right at the start of the game do not "chant" on their own (as they do in vanilla BG1). I've been in that place for a while and they only seem to speak if I right click on them, but not on their own. Is this a BG2 engine limit on using random chatter?
Also, could someone give a look to my weidu to see if there's something wrong that comes to the eye?
The chanters and spawns
Started by HRose, Dec 23 2011 09:31 PM
29 replies to this topic
#2
Jarno Mikkola
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The Imp in his pink raincoat.
Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:56 AM
Well, the "Tactics" mod is in totally wrong place... because it overwrites everything it contacts with. You don't have the Worldmap mod, and you'll run into a few dozen errors that have been fixed in the BiG World Fixpack... If I were you, I would install all this using the BiG World Tool...Also, could someone give a look to my weidu to see if there's something wrong that comes to the eye?
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Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 24 December 2011 - 04:58 AM.
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#3
HRose
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:22 AM
Well, Tactics is in that position because accordingly to SCS2 help file I installed those components that shouldn't overlap.
Since Tactics is a BG2 mod, I installed it after all the BG1 content, and then before all the BG2 content, so that the rest of BG2 patches overwrite Tactics. In fact SCS2 comes AFTER Tactics.
The G3 Anniversary mod REQUIRES the BP map? Then I guess I can do without it. I only thought that one should install the BP worldmap AFTER because of incompatibilities, not because it was REQUIRED.
In any case I don't use any BP mod, so I'll do without the Anniversary mod (I guess I'll just miss the location to reach it).
Since Tactics is a BG2 mod, I installed it after all the BG1 content, and then before all the BG2 content, so that the rest of BG2 patches overwrite Tactics. In fact SCS2 comes AFTER Tactics.
The G3 Anniversary mod REQUIRES the BP map? Then I guess I can do without it. I only thought that one should install the BP worldmap AFTER because of incompatibilities, not because it was REQUIRED.
In any case I don't use any BP mod, so I'll do without the Anniversary mod (I guess I'll just miss the location to reach it).
#4
Ascension64
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 03:53 PM
Engine nuance, here, I can't really fix without overhauling every creature to do the same.Another very minor thing I noticed is that the chanters in Candlekeep right at the start of the game do not "chant" on their own (as they do in vanilla BG1). I've been in that place for a while and they only seem to speak if I right click on them, but not on their own. Is this a BG2 engine limit on using random chatter?
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#5
Jarno Mikkola
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Posted 25 December 2011 - 06:43 AM
Nope, but it should be installed after any other Worldmap changing files... including Tactics...The G3 Anniversary mod REQUIRES the BP map? Then I guess I can do without it. I only thought that one should install the BP worldmap AFTER because of incompatibilities, not because it was REQUIRED.
That would be ok, if the BG2 Fixpack wouldn't be full of patches to BGII content, so the Tactics should be installed before that...Since Tactics is a BG2 mod, I installed it after all the BG1 content, and then before all the BG2 content, so that the rest of BG2 patches overwrite Tactics.
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#6
HRose
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Posted 25 December 2011 - 02:11 PM
Well, I assume the components of Tactics I've installed only change a couple of zones' encounters, and then change those few specific encounters and creatures.
So I'd imagine that the basics of the fixpack are mostly untouched if not in those handful of specific cases.
Is it really so destructive?
Also, nothing about problems with Tactics on the fixpack readme. It actually says:
In terms of installation order, the Fixpack should be installed after the official patches, but before other mods.
So I'd imagine that the basics of the fixpack are mostly untouched if not in those handful of specific cases.
Is it really so destructive?
Also, nothing about problems with Tactics on the fixpack readme. It actually says:
In terms of installation order, the Fixpack should be installed after the official patches, but before other mods.
Edited by HRose, 25 December 2011 - 02:19 PM.
#7
Lollorian
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smiley addict
Posted 25 December 2011 - 07:37 PM
Let's say it works like this 
with an overly exaggerated and absolutely stupid example that may or may not have any resemblance to actual synergy between the BG2Fixpack and Tactics 
Our case:
- Vanilla BGII area XYZ has creature called Diablo holding 2-handed item called Lightsaber and a Buckler in the offhand (possible crash - 2-handed with shield equipped
)
- BG2Fixpack wants to fix this by changing Diablo's Lightsaber into a one-handed weapon (by patching stuff)
- Tactics wants to make the battle tougher by adding 2 new badass guys with him called Mephisto and Baal (by overwriting the area)
Now, BG2Fixpack -> Tactics:
- BG2Fixpack patches stuff, changes Lightsaber to 1-handed
- Tactics overwrites BG2Fixpack's changes to add the vanilla area with 2 new creatures (reverting BG2Fixpack's change because Tactics oerwrites using the vanilla - unBG2Fixpacked - area as a base)
... so you get to battle all 3 of them but still get the crash because Diablo's got a 2-handed with a shield
Usually followed by reports of game crashing even though you installed the BG2Fixpack 
(cause you know... it should've fixed the crashees like magic lol:)
And, Tactics -> BG2Fixpack
- Tactics overwrites vanilla area to add creatures
- BG2Fixpack patches Diablo in Tactics area and gives him 1-handed Lightsaber (without changing anything else)
... you get to battle all 3 of them while correctly preventing the crash that the BG2Fixpack wants to fix
with an overly exaggerated and absolutely stupid example that may or may not have any resemblance to actual synergy between the BG2Fixpack and Tactics Our case:
- Vanilla BGII area XYZ has creature called Diablo holding 2-handed item called Lightsaber and a Buckler in the offhand (possible crash - 2-handed with shield equipped
)- BG2Fixpack wants to fix this by changing Diablo's Lightsaber into a one-handed weapon (by patching stuff)
- Tactics wants to make the battle tougher by adding 2 new badass guys with him called Mephisto and Baal (by overwriting the area)
Now, BG2Fixpack -> Tactics:
- BG2Fixpack patches stuff, changes Lightsaber to 1-handed
- Tactics overwrites BG2Fixpack's changes to add the vanilla area with 2 new creatures (reverting BG2Fixpack's change because Tactics oerwrites using the vanilla - unBG2Fixpacked - area as a base)
... so you get to battle all 3 of them but still get the crash because Diablo's got a 2-handed with a shield
Usually followed by reports of game crashing even though you installed the BG2Fixpack (cause you know... it should've fixed the crashees like magic lol:)And, Tactics -> BG2Fixpack
- Tactics overwrites vanilla area to add creatures
- BG2Fixpack patches Diablo in Tactics area and gives him 1-handed Lightsaber
(without changing anything else)... you get to battle all 3 of them while correctly preventing the crash that the BG2Fixpack wants to fix
Edited by Lollorian, 25 December 2011 - 07:48 PM.
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#8
HRose
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Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:23 PM
If that was the case then they should have said in the readme to install the fixpack after all other mods...
In any case, I've stumbled on a rather substantial problem that needs figuring out. When I meet Minsc in Nashkel he already has 36,000 XP and levels up to 6. My party is all at level 1 beside Jaheira who's at 2.
And btw, most everyone is around 800xp, but for some reason Jaheira was almost to level 2 when she joined.
What the hell is going on?
In any case, I've stumbled on a rather substantial problem that needs figuring out. When I meet Minsc in Nashkel he already has 36,000 XP and levels up to 6. My party is all at level 1 beside Jaheira who's at 2.
And btw, most everyone is around 800xp, but for some reason Jaheira was almost to level 2 when she joined.
What the hell is going on?
#9
HRose
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Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:57 PM
Huh, it's indeed a bug, but on BG1NPC:
http://forums.gibber...showtopic=23622
Without making another account over there, someone could tell me if it's possible to fix it manually? I have a save before Nashkel, but since I have the xp reduction patch I didn't really want to wait till level 2. So is there a way to fix this manually?
Another question: I think one of the mods (maybe BG1NPC again) lets me divide the duo like Montaron and Xzar, I guess this wasn't possible in vanilla. So is this going to break some dialogue or banters if the two aren't around at the same time?
http://forums.gibber...showtopic=23622
Without making another account over there, someone could tell me if it's possible to fix it manually? I have a save before Nashkel, but since I have the xp reduction patch I didn't really want to wait till level 2. So is there a way to fix this manually?
Another question: I think one of the mods (maybe BG1NPC again) lets me divide the duo like Montaron and Xzar, I guess this wasn't possible in vanilla. So is this going to break some dialogue or banters if the two aren't around at the same time?
#10
Jarno Mikkola
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 02:39 AM
Should be, you just use the Console to make the minsc2.cre to appear before you...Without making another account over there, someone could tell me if it's possible to fix it manually? I have a save before Nashkel, but since I have the xp reduction patch I didn't really want to wait till level 2. So is there a way to fix this manually?
CLUAConsole:CreateCreature("minsc2")Well, depends totally on the mod, but if it well made, it won't.Another question: I think one of the mods (maybe BG1NPC again) lets me divide the duo like Montaron and Xzar, I guess this wasn't possible in vanilla. So is this going to break some dialogue or banters if the two aren't around at the same time?
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#11
HRose
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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:43 PM
Should be, you just use the Console to make the minsc2.cre to appear before you...Without making another account over there, someone could tell me if it's possible to fix it manually? I have a save before Nashkel, but since I have the xp reduction patch I didn't really want to wait till level 2. So is there a way to fix this manually?
CLUAConsole:CreateCreature("minsc2")
Wouldn't that create two versions of the characters and lead to more scripts possibly breaking and stuff? What happens if I put Minsc out of the group, he is going to disappear forever or he'll reappear later at an inn with his levels messed?
#12
Jarno Mikkola
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The Imp in his pink raincoat.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:50 PM
Well yes, that will create another one... you go and speak to one and not the other, problem solved... the only script that can break is the one in the current area and there are not that many checks at Naskel for Minsc.Wouldn't that create two versions of the characters and lead to more scripts possibly breaking and stuff? What happens if I put Minsc out of the group, he is going to disappear forever or he'll reappear later at an inn with his levels messed?
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#13
Anomaly
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:19 AM
The easiest fix for the Minsc "Too much XP" issue is to let join Minsc as is. If you are level one, and he is level one but ready to level up (the bug I reported), don't level up, select Minsc and use the following console command:
This will completely fix the incorrect patching of Minsc.cre by BG1 NPC.
CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP(258)
This will completely fix the incorrect patching of Minsc.cre by BG1 NPC.
French translator of: BG2 FixPack, BG2 Tweaks, Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU, BGT-Tweaks and some minor mods.
#14
HRose
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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:01 PM
I am SO ANNOYED.
I thought it made sense to install "Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones" but now I'm facing a DAMNED ROADBLOCK.
I'm well into chapter 3 and start finding creatures that can only be hurt by magic weapons. But THERE ARE NO MAGIC WEAPONS IN THE GAME.
I need a magic 2h sword and an axe. I have to look into walkthrough because I couldn't find anything on my own. Even with a walkthrough I now discover that magic weapons don't exist in BG1.
I read that a guy named Arghain has a 2h word +1. I go check and the sword is replaced by a nomal one. I go in the shops and they have nothing. I see that there's a spider thing 2h sword, but the area is blocked until past chapter 4. The only +3 one is CURSED.
So no 2h swords.
Even worse for axes. The only magic axe I can find listed is in Baldur's Gate, and I'm far from being able to go there.
Is that it? Is that patch so damned game breaking? Who the hell thought it was a good idea to make that change? Do I have to restart the whole thing because of this oversight?
I thought it made sense to install "Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones" but now I'm facing a DAMNED ROADBLOCK.
I'm well into chapter 3 and start finding creatures that can only be hurt by magic weapons. But THERE ARE NO MAGIC WEAPONS IN THE GAME.
I need a magic 2h sword and an axe. I have to look into walkthrough because I couldn't find anything on my own. Even with a walkthrough I now discover that magic weapons don't exist in BG1.
I read that a guy named Arghain has a 2h word +1. I go check and the sword is replaced by a nomal one. I go in the shops and they have nothing. I see that there's a spider thing 2h sword, but the area is blocked until past chapter 4. The only +3 one is CURSED.
So no 2h swords.
Even worse for axes. The only magic axe I can find listed is in Baldur's Gate, and I'm far from being able to go there.
Is that it? Is that patch so damned game breaking? Who the hell thought it was a good idea to make that change? Do I have to restart the whole thing because of this oversight?
Edited by HRose, 04 May 2012 - 11:02 PM.
#15
HRose
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:03 PM
Anyone knows at least if I can go and unpatch the removal of +1 weapons? Do I have them back standard or nothing happens, or I risk corrupting my saves?
Also the thing that changes prices in shop is something I shouldn't have installed. It's completely overblown. I remember that when I was playing BG original I had my inventory FILLED with magic/poison arrows. I never used numal ones. And now it's not "balanced", but the opposite: I get an handful of them at most, and shops sell an handul of them at like 600 gp EACH.
It seems that there's no middle ground to these patches. Vanilla is way too easy and simple, and the patches just make it utterly unplayable.
Also the thing that changes prices in shop is something I shouldn't have installed. It's completely overblown. I remember that when I was playing BG original I had my inventory FILLED with magic/poison arrows. I never used numal ones. And now it's not "balanced", but the opposite: I get an handful of them at most, and shops sell an handul of them at like 600 gp EACH.
It seems that there's no middle ground to these patches. Vanilla is way too easy and simple, and the patches just make it utterly unplayable.
#16
HRose
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:31 PM
I also wanted to make a list of weird things and bug I've found. Some I forgot but if I'm able to progress with this current install I'll keep adding stuff I find:
- It happens quite often that when a character dies the body comes back up and continues fighting for a while. Some sort of ghosting.
- I'm not sure this is intended beaviour: spawn locations that are found empty can suddenly spawn monsters if you revisit them, without sleeping in the interval. They should STAY empty as long the 8-hours interval for respawn triggers.
- I have leftover quest text in the journal. There are several instances in Chapter 3 about the quest related to the apprentice wizard turned chicken that you rescue and can turn back into human. I think I went through the whole thing, but it still left many trances in the current active quests, in the journal.
Also, another question if hopefully this forum is alive:
~SETUP-BGTTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #1502 // Altered item shattering -> Make armor and shields shatter: 9 (25 Nov 09)
I was thinking this lasted till I solved the quest at some point (like completing the mine). Is this the case? Because armor and weapons still shatter. I still need to dispatch the bandits (those that are up north), so I don't know if this gets fixed later.
Or maybe items continue to shatter THE WHOLE GAME? This is quite awful because, as you can see above, I am almost entirely without magic weapons (since the other patch removed all +1 ones). And I have to deal constantly with:
- Common equipment breaking.
- Prices for common iron equipment overblown.
- No magic weapons and game filled with monsters only killable by magic weapons.
- No magic range ammo (shops have almost none and at excessive prices).
I patched myself into a corner.
So I need help to locate in my weidu posted above what it is that is causing all this and make it a little more balanced.
- It happens quite often that when a character dies the body comes back up and continues fighting for a while. Some sort of ghosting.
- I'm not sure this is intended beaviour: spawn locations that are found empty can suddenly spawn monsters if you revisit them, without sleeping in the interval. They should STAY empty as long the 8-hours interval for respawn triggers.
- I have leftover quest text in the journal. There are several instances in Chapter 3 about the quest related to the apprentice wizard turned chicken that you rescue and can turn back into human. I think I went through the whole thing, but it still left many trances in the current active quests, in the journal.
Also, another question if hopefully this forum is alive:
~SETUP-BGTTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #1502 // Altered item shattering -> Make armor and shields shatter: 9 (25 Nov 09)
I was thinking this lasted till I solved the quest at some point (like completing the mine). Is this the case? Because armor and weapons still shatter. I still need to dispatch the bandits (those that are up north), so I don't know if this gets fixed later.
Or maybe items continue to shatter THE WHOLE GAME? This is quite awful because, as you can see above, I am almost entirely without magic weapons (since the other patch removed all +1 ones). And I have to deal constantly with:
- Common equipment breaking.
- Prices for common iron equipment overblown.
- No magic weapons and game filled with monsters only killable by magic weapons.
- No magic range ammo (shops have almost none and at excessive prices).
I patched myself into a corner.
So I need help to locate in my weidu posted above what it is that is causing all this and make it a little more balanced.
#17
HRose
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:36 PM
Yet another thing:
It also happens that whatever magic arrow I find needs to be identified again. I can have the exact same type of item in the inventory already identified, but for every new arrow I need to repeat the process over and over. Is this even normal?
It also happens that whatever magic arrow I find needs to be identified again. I can have the exact same type of item in the inventory already identified, but for every new arrow I need to repeat the process over and over. Is this even normal?
#18
hook71
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:00 AM
- It happens quite often that when a character dies the body comes back up and continues fighting for a while. Some sort of ghosting.
TobEx 0022 and later should fix this but in your game you can try turning off the following fixes in TobExCore.ini as they were buggy in the version bundled with SCS:
Damage Fix=0
Dexterity Mod=0
Magic Resistance Mod Fix=0
Poison Fix=0
Strength Mod=0
- I have leftover quest text in the journal. There are several instances in Chapter 3 about the quest related to the apprentice wizard turned chicken that you rescue and can turn back into human. I think I went through the whole thing, but it still left many trances in the current active quests, in the journal.
BGT1.13 and later should remove these journal entries.
- Common equipment breaking.
- Prices for common iron equipment overblown.
- No magic weapons and game filled with monsters only killable by magic weapons.
- No magic range ammo (shops have almost none and at excessive prices).
I patched myself into a corner.
So I need help to locate in my weidu posted above what it is that is causing all this and make it a little more balanced.
~SETUP-BGTTWEAK.TP2~ #0 #1502 // Altered item shattering; Make armor and shields shatter: 9 (25 Nov 09)
~SETUP-HARDTIMES.TP2~ #0 #0 // Hard Times v2 (BGT): 2.4 (BGT)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #3050 // Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones: v20
Edited by hook71, 18 May 2012 - 12:04 AM.
#19
Dakk
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:16 AM
Yes, just because you've identified a +1 Shord sword doesn't mean you will automatically identify every other +1 Short sword in the game. The same goes for arrows.Yet another thing:
It also happens that whatever magic arrow I find needs to be identified again. I can have the exact same type of item in the inventory already identified, but for every new arrow I need to repeat the process over and over. Is this even normal?
#20
HRose
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:32 PM
Yes, just because you've identified a +1 Shord sword doesn't mean you will automatically identify every other +1 Short sword in the game. The same goes for arrows.
But I don't think it worked like this in BG1. And besides, *I* do recognize these objects myself. They have the exact same icon. It's a bit silly that one has to identify every arrow one by one.
For a sword it's a bit different since there may be small variations, but here it's about stacks of the exact same object.
Imho, copies of the exact same object (it happens even with some mage robes) should need identification. It's just a chore and no fun identifying something you already know and have.
Edited by HRose, 18 May 2012 - 02:34 PM.
