This topic is lockedhttp://www.shsforums...solaufein stats
not exactly streightforward.
Anyways, I'll just start a thread like that in general discussion, and if people would like the idea they can add their NPCs to the list - or someone else can start it...
Is Chloe a well balanced NPC?
Started by T.G.Maestro, Oct 29 2003 03:54 AM
191 replies to this topic
#121
-Ashara-
-Ashara-
-
- Guest
Posted 23 December 2003 - 08:48 AM
That's the results I got by searching for "Solaufein Stats" in keyword.
http://www.shsforums...solaufein stats
not exactly streightforward.
Anyways, I'll just start a thread like that in general discussion, and if people would like the idea they can add their NPCs to the list - or someone else can start it...
http://www.shsforums...solaufein stats
not exactly streightforward.
Anyways, I'll just start a thread like that in general discussion, and if people would like the idea they can add their NPCs to the list - or someone else can start it...
#122
Deathsangel
-
- Modder
-
- 3089 posts
Living on Wings of Dreams
Posted 06 February 2004 - 02:57 AM
With this I agree, Cloe is a Demi-God. I would expect that her godly parent would still be above her.Personally, I don't feel that Chloe is unbalanced (aside from a 1-handed +6 enchantment weapon, but I can live with that as long as it doens't become standard issue for all new NPCs). As has been mentioned before, the 25 dex doesn't actually add anything more than a lower dex score of 22 gives. The concerns I have with the 25 dex are more of a roleplaying/consitency nature. From a consistency perspective, it doesn't really make much sense with the given reasons for Chloe to have such a powerful dexterity.
The difference between 22 Dex and 25 Dex is but 1 AC. It is mostly better due to roleplay then it is to Cloe's balance.
Another thing that she is bad in assault and good in attack, is in my opinion more because of the Kensai kit (which I personally find equall to warm beer) then because of Cloe herself.
She isn't unbalanced... it's just that no one can get above her, not even her own parent. That is what people are scared off.
P.S. In 3E edition you can get even above the DEX of an elder air elemental, it's totally different and a lot more balanced.
P.P.S. to get very off topic and back on something on page 1, Valen isn't overpowered while standing in the sun!
Still modding the Mod for the Wicked... It is a big project you know... And I got sidetracked (several times) a bit... sorry.
However, as we all know, Evil never really sleeps.
Sentences marking (my) life:
Winds of change... Endure them, and in Enduring grow Stronger
It takes a fool to look for logic in a man's heart
Never question the sanity of the insane
The Harmony of Life is Chaos
Living on Wings of Dreams
(1st march 2009) SHS women over me:
Kat: if there were more guys that looked like you out here, people's offspring wouldnt be so damn ugly
Noctalys: you are adorable 
~~ I love it, and I am humbled! Yay! ~~
#123
Chalyanki
-
- Member
- 16 posts
Posted 10 February 2004 - 07:53 PM
I've just started a new game of BG II (well, a day ago) and am level 14 at the moment; Chloe's something like level 11 or 12. I don't really think she's overpowered because of her 25 dexterity or her weapons even, but because of the kensai kit. Personally, I don't think she's unrealistically overpowered either, because man, when Chloe gets hit, she gets hit. I don't have a problem with her in my game at all; she's mighty, but she has her weaknesses too. This makes her a more rounded character, and one I am happy to have in my party.
#124
thecursed
-
- Member
- 680 posts
Just a ghost from the past
Posted 11 February 2004 - 06:47 AM
finnaly got into downloading her, and trying her out. she's a good NPC. a bit too talkative at times, but when it comes to power, she is well balanced. i saw that you dropped the idea to give her super speed!
"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune.... they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures"
Gerrard of the Weatherlight
Wisdom: Distinguish the extraordinary from the spectacular
Beware My ever shifting avatar!!
Gerrard of the Weatherlight
Wisdom: Distinguish the extraordinary from the spectacular
Beware My ever shifting avatar!!
#125
Lucythebeast
-
- Modder
-
- 593 posts
Chloe's bitch
Posted 11 February 2004 - 11:03 AM
I didn't drop the idea, it was never my idea to begin with. People were arguing in favor of it, is all.finnaly got into downloading her, and trying her out. she's a good NPC. a bit too talkative at times, but when it comes to power, she is well balanced. i saw that you dropped the idea to give her super speed!
Save a vampire. Give blood.
#126
thecursed
-
- Member
- 680 posts
Just a ghost from the past
Posted 20 February 2004 - 06:14 AM
fair enough. in all, only having just got past spell hold, she is one of the most pleasent extra NPCs out there. my compliments again
"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune.... they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures"
Gerrard of the Weatherlight
Wisdom: Distinguish the extraordinary from the spectacular
Beware My ever shifting avatar!!
Gerrard of the Weatherlight
Wisdom: Distinguish the extraordinary from the spectacular
Beware My ever shifting avatar!!
#127
-LadyKent-
-LadyKent-
-
- Guest
Posted 26 February 2004 - 05:48 AM
She seemed alittle weak to me, I keep having to bail her out with frequent healings (as viconia pointed out in a dialog)
#128
T.G.Maestro
-
- Member
- 4415 posts
Eclipse
Posted 26 February 2004 - 06:13 AM
ARGH.She seemed alittle weak to me, I keep having to bail her out with frequent healings
Refinements v2 has been released!
Go and visit the website or the forum for more info!
Member of The Silver Star team.
#129
Lucythebeast
-
- Modder
-
- 593 posts
Chloe's bitch
Posted 26 February 2004 - 08:13 PM
Which balances her offensive prowess.She seemed alittle weak to me, I keep having to bail her out with frequent healings (as viconia pointed out in a dialog)
And thus, my point is made.
Save a vampire. Give blood.
#130
Caedwyr
-
- Member
- 962 posts
Wraith Editor
Posted 26 February 2004 - 09:17 PM
*resists rebutting Lucythebeast's position* 
"Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. Study Hard. Be Evil." - Ferret
PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit
PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit
#131
-LadyKent-
-LadyKent-
-
- Guest
Posted 26 February 2004 - 10:00 PM
I wasnt trying to convince you to power her up (though being a demi god like charname... 
) I keep her around for the prospect of one day she will realize im a damn woman and love me!!!! 
... okay im better now 
I keep her around for the companionship not her fighting ability.
) I keep her around for the prospect of one day she will realize im a damn woman and love me!!!! ... okay im better now I keep her around for the companionship not her fighting ability.
#132
-Monte Carlo-
-Monte Carlo-
-
- Guest
Posted 12 March 2004 - 03:10 AM
I'm using Chloe for the first time, and kudos to Lucy for a job well done.
My only criticism is that Lucy discussed the concept she wanted for Chloe (i.e. the 3rd Ed. D&D "light fighter" who would benefit from high DEX and Weapon Finesse feats) but tries to shoehorn the concept into clunky ol' 2E AD&D. Therefore the insanely high DEX doesn't actually benefit her at all, really.
My workaround?
I just Shadowkeeper'd her DEX to a very high 20 (dropped five points) and increased STR to 16 (added three). I think it balances out and gives her the combat oomph she deserves from the high DEX concept.
Now, Chloe in IWG2, if it ever comes out, would be a very interesting proposition. A 3E Chloe would rock, except that you'd have to change her weapons as IIRC you can't weapon finesse a scimitar.
Cheers
MC
My only criticism is that Lucy discussed the concept she wanted for Chloe (i.e. the 3rd Ed. D&D "light fighter" who would benefit from high DEX and Weapon Finesse feats) but tries to shoehorn the concept into clunky ol' 2E AD&D. Therefore the insanely high DEX doesn't actually benefit her at all, really.
My workaround?
I just Shadowkeeper'd her DEX to a very high 20 (dropped five points) and increased STR to 16 (added three). I think it balances out and gives her the combat oomph she deserves from the high DEX concept.
Now, Chloe in IWG2, if it ever comes out, would be a very interesting proposition. A 3E Chloe would rock, except that you'd have to change her weapons as IIRC you can't weapon finesse a scimitar.
Cheers
MC
#133
Bren
-
- Member
- 56 posts
Posted 17 March 2004 - 10:25 AM
Great work Lucy!
Chloe is a good addition to the party. Not over or underpowered, she just is not a "typical" NPC. Thank you for that. She is a great match for Imoen and her comments are many times quite funny and are right in line with the personality you have created for her. And I make note of the fact she has a believable personality. Several times she is saying things I wish my PC could say. Some of the "stock" characters can get on ones nerves, haven't found that with Chloe either. So again - You did Good! I'm sure Imoen will be looking forward to ToB now.
Chloe is a good addition to the party. Not over or underpowered, she just is not a "typical" NPC. Thank you for that. She is a great match for Imoen and her comments are many times quite funny and are right in line with the personality you have created for her. And I make note of the fact she has a believable personality. Several times she is saying things I wish my PC could say. Some of the "stock" characters can get on ones nerves, haven't found that with Chloe either. So again - You did Good! I'm sure Imoen will be looking forward to ToB now.
#134
Bane
-
- Member
- 1472 posts
Grand Master Noober
Posted 17 March 2004 - 03:15 PM
I just want to say Chloe is DAMN HARD. I would say she is overpowered but she receives a lot of damage when hit (and dishes a lot out too) so there is that for the balancing effect. I like her romance with Immy (I have yet to try it out for the pc) I think its second best on my top list of the romances (Nalia comes first )
Good Job
)Good Job
Power for the Keep, Power for the Zhentarim!
Defy me and die!
Defy me and die!
#135
-Salem-
-Salem-
-
- Guest
Posted 19 March 2004 - 12:32 PM
I wouldn't say Chloe is unbalanced. At high levels she becomes insanely powerful (I am half-way through ToB and she has subterranean THAC0 and >200 HPs with the pale green Ioun Stone and girdle of fortitude) but so do a lot of kits. A monk with 5 or 6 million XPs is insane. And don't get me started on that modded "Druidic Sorceror" kit.
Chloe's 25 DEX may upset you - and I understand why - but as it doesn't affect her balance it's irrelevant here.
If you were putting together a package of the "best" NPCs, Chloe would certainly be in it, but that's only because, as has been pointed out, certain characters are so much better than others. Keldorn's double-level Dispel and True Sight, plus his ability to weild Carsomyr, makes him awesome. His only weakness is low DEX but there are gauntlets for that right by him. From a powergaming point of view I would say he is "better" to have in your party than Chloe. So as Chloe is not the most powerful NPC, she cannot unbalance the game.
I think the only reason this debate has gone on so long is that some people are saying "Chloe isn't unbalanced, because a demigod would be like that," which isn't a very good argument, and giving ammunition to the people who say Chloe is unbalanced. It is quite possible that a realistic demigod would be unbalanced - if a demigod were unbalanced. But the test for balance is does the character change the nature of the game or the way you play or approach it. And Chloe doesn't.
Besides, you could easily create a half-orcish Kensai as the player character with 19 STR, 18 DEX, 19 CON which would be pretty devastating too, and that would be all legal.
Quite clearly a lot of thought has gone into Chloe, both from the point of view of character and balance, and I for one really enjoyed playing her. Just my two cents.
Chloe's 25 DEX may upset you - and I understand why - but as it doesn't affect her balance it's irrelevant here.
If you were putting together a package of the "best" NPCs, Chloe would certainly be in it, but that's only because, as has been pointed out, certain characters are so much better than others. Keldorn's double-level Dispel and True Sight, plus his ability to weild Carsomyr, makes him awesome. His only weakness is low DEX but there are gauntlets for that right by him. From a powergaming point of view I would say he is "better" to have in your party than Chloe. So as Chloe is not the most powerful NPC, she cannot unbalance the game.
I think the only reason this debate has gone on so long is that some people are saying "Chloe isn't unbalanced, because a demigod would be like that," which isn't a very good argument, and giving ammunition to the people who say Chloe is unbalanced. It is quite possible that a realistic demigod would be unbalanced - if a demigod were unbalanced. But the test for balance is does the character change the nature of the game or the way you play or approach it. And Chloe doesn't.
Besides, you could easily create a half-orcish Kensai as the player character with 19 STR, 18 DEX, 19 CON which would be pretty devastating too, and that would be all legal.
Quite clearly a lot of thought has gone into Chloe, both from the point of view of character and balance, and I for one really enjoyed playing her. Just my two cents.
#136
Harbinger
-
- Member
- 42 posts
Posted 19 March 2004 - 02:47 PM
Not to mention a dual Kensai/Mage also legal, and much more unbalancing.Besides, you could easily create a half-orcish Kensai as the player character with 19 STR, 18 DEX, 19 CON which would be pretty devastating too, and that would be all legal.
Quite clearly a lot of thought has gone into Chloe, both from the point of view of character and balance, and I for one really enjoyed playing her. Just my two cents.
#137
-Dalis'ilhea-
-Dalis'ilhea-
-
- Guest
Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:47 AM
I've just got to say this, My P.c was all completly legal, uncheated and so on, His stats in the first game at the begining were
Fighter
Chaotic Neutral
STR 18/00
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 16
I won't tell you how long it took
and by the end he had
STR 19
DEX 19
CON 19
INT 11
WIS 21
CHA 17
When I got SoA and ToB, I duel classed him to a priest and ended up with a level
22 fighter/26 priest with stats of
STR 20
DEX 20
CON 20
INT 12
WIS 23
CHA 19
with all of his equipment and buffed up he was completly unstopable
I mean he managed to take out Demgorgon by himself. If a Kensai with Dex 25 and +6 weapons is considered to powerful consider the fact that my char had un buffed with just his equip had -11 AC and a thaco of -17 -15 and had a str of 25, and could destroy undead with his other weapon
Now buffed up he had -19 AC wit a Str, Dex and Con of 12 -30 thaco and a load of resistances, the only problem he did have was to have crap saving throws, which was countered when buffed up
Fighter
Chaotic Neutral
STR 18/00
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 16
I won't tell you how long it took
and by the end he had
STR 19
DEX 19
CON 19
INT 11
WIS 21
CHA 17
When I got SoA and ToB, I duel classed him to a priest and ended up with a level
22 fighter/26 priest with stats of
STR 20
DEX 20
CON 20
INT 12
WIS 23
CHA 19
with all of his equipment and buffed up he was completly unstopable
I mean he managed to take out Demgorgon by himself. If a Kensai with Dex 25 and +6 weapons is considered to powerful consider the fact that my char had un buffed with just his equip had -11 AC and a thaco of -17 -15 and had a str of 25, and could destroy undead with his other weapon
Now buffed up he had -19 AC wit a Str, Dex and Con of 12 -30 thaco and a load of resistances, the only problem he did have was to have crap saving throws, which was countered when buffed up
#138
-Dails'ilhea-
-Dails'ilhea-
-
- Guest
Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:40 AM
Correction to my first statment he ened up with a STR, DEX and CON of 25, and this was buffing himself He was completly Self- suffient
#139
thecursed
-
- Member
- 680 posts
Just a ghost from the past
Posted 27 March 2004 - 03:07 PM
using the BMU?
"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune.... they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures"
Gerrard of the Weatherlight
Wisdom: Distinguish the extraordinary from the spectacular
Beware My ever shifting avatar!!
Gerrard of the Weatherlight
Wisdom: Distinguish the extraordinary from the spectacular
Beware My ever shifting avatar!!
