191 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Not to mention that Chloe's mother, Akadia seems to have a lower DEX value, which is most strange if you ask me.

Why all you people think at gods and their avatars as a kind of Terminator ? Maestro, you say "Akadia seems to have a lower DEX value". I think that for Akadia (and the other gods too) the concepts of DEX, STR, CON, INT, WIS and CHA shouldn't even exist ! This is the major mistake of ADD (and copied by players too) : thinking of gods in mortal terms !

[T.G.Maestro]

[QUOTE]This is the major mistake of ADD
Just as you say, this is a problem of ADD. And since our BG2 is based on that one, I think the logic behind the reasoning for those lower stats is evident.

[Feanor]

OK, but you asked if we find Chloe a well balanced NPC, balance-boy ! A +3 AC bonus does not make her a kind of Jedi Master ! And the arguments I have seen here are quite a bit chaotic. I mean you started with the balance terms, then you changed to ADD terms. As I have said before, focus only upon ONE criteria !

[T.G.Maestro]

I admit, this discussion went a bit too far from it's starting point. All I can say is that maybe we should consider this two separate discussions - the numbers in the poll tell everything about the balance in game terms, while our little talks in here portrait the ideological/aestethic parts of the "problem".

[Lucythebeast]

Ah... if only this game were built using the 3E rules... this discussion wouldn't even be happening because Akadia would be running around with a 60-70 dex at least And Chloe's 25 dex wouldn't seem that strange.

I also wanted to make a point that a god's avatar is a mortal shell and therefore has limitations that the deity itself does not have. And an avatar would have no reason to push against and past it's limitations as a mortal would have... and that the Yr'kai people do religiously.

But the point is moot, I want to adjust Chloe's stats anyway as I said before. Those that like her stats the way they are now would likely use shadowkeeper to put them back anyway so no big deal.

[T.G.Maestro]

Thanks Lucy!
Again, do you need help with those blades? As I've said before, I made htem completely bugfree with all the proper requirements for Chloe. I also made a slightly balanced version for each of their versions, I can send you those as well, if you are interested.

[Lucythebeast]

Another person fixed the weapons quite some time ago and sent them to me... I just haven't looked at them or tested them myself yet. I've been waiting on the German translation... or at least A translation to include on the next patch and with how busy I've been on this tour, I haven't taken the time to look into it. I'm sure all I'll need to do on these things is to adjust the requirements... then I have to change all of Chloe's .cre files with updated stats... ugh. That'll be a pain in the bum.

[Hryme]

First post.

Just wanted to add that my idea of a balanced character in BGII is that the character is not more powerful in a class/kit than the protagonist could be if they chose that class/kit (and spent some time rolling their stats)

It seems to me that Chloe is a tad unbalanced as a kensai, as she seems more powerful than the protagonist would ever be if you chose kensai as a kit (at least within SoA and excluding slayer changes). Looks like the only thing you need to do is to give her a strength-enhancing item and remember to cast spirit armor in addition to the usual buffs. She will then have a 3 better AC than the kensai-protagonist could ever get. Add in her innate abilities/weapons (though I would still go for Celestial Fury) and she is definately over the top. In my opinion

I've never tried her though. Based this post on reading all the responses in this topic and her description.

Then again this is also true for Edwin as a mage. It is almost pointless to make a pure mage as your main character when you can pick up Edwin and get a much better mage. One of the reasons I never use him. (Way back when he got 2 extra spells per level. Haven't tried him in ages, so I have no idea if it is fixed now)

Though I hope people add Chloe to their parties because of roleplaying reasons, not because they min/max.

[Lucythebeast]

But the point is moot, I want to adjust Chloe's stats anyway as I said before. Those that like her stats the way they are now would likely use shadowkeeper to put them back anyway so no big deal.

Using what cheaters might do as the justification for a design decision in a mod for a (primarily) single-player game sounds quite silly.

Obviously you missed the point of that statement. I said if people really liked the old stats and didn't want them changed, then they would just change them back when they get the patch. As in... they wouldn't miss out on anything/they wouldn't have any real reason to complain. I can't state it any more clearly than that.

[Aion]

*blinks*

Well, I find Chloe one of the best NPC Mods I've tried so far. She just fits right into the game environment, whether you're romancing her or not. Okay, she has 25 DEX and no Dual Class option etc etc. But really, what does it matter? I don't think Chloe is overpowered or anything. Sure, her fighting skills are very good, but I recently made a protagonist:

[*]Male Human Fighter
[*]5 slots into Quarterstaff, 2 slots into Two Handed Weapon Style
[*]18/79 STR, 18 DEX, 17 CON, 12 INT, 10 WIS, 10 CHR

And without cheating too. He seemed more powerful than Chloe at the beginning of the game, as he started off with a different kind of weapon specialization and more STR.

So...no, I don't believe that Chloe is overpowered in any way. She's a balanced, well-created and interesting NPC who I don't want to uninstall. Ever. ^^

[Sleepmist]

Most of the discussion on this thread has been about the fighting side of our favourite barbarian dyke. Personally, I find the role-playing side of the game the more interesting. That is where, IMHO, Chloe has some pluses and some minuses--mostly pluses.

BIG, BIG plus = as NPC romances go, Chloe beats the Bioware lot by the proverbial country mile. For heaven's sake, Bioware, WHY THE Hell would Jaheira be falling into the sack with <CHRNAME> about 5 seconds after seeing Khalid's corpse? Sheesh. Must be all that testosterone wafting about the place. Chloe, on the other, talks to PC's (and Immy) to see whether or not *SHE* thinks the character is her type. I wish they were all like this.

Not so much of a plus: Chloe nearly always seems to get the last word in her banters with other NPCs. Although, Jaheira sometimes manages to put her in her place.

A minus: Chloe can get terribly sanctimonious and prudish in her GTKU questions, and her sense of humour is not terribly consistent.

The biggest minus for me was her immunity to Bodhi's capture. I'd much preferred for her to have been as human as any other NPC at this point--demigoddess status notwithstanding.

On balance, then, I'd rate Chloe a B+ as an NPC. If she had been humanly fallible in the graveyard denouement, it would've been an A. This is a terrific mod and I extend my deepest thanks to the creators.


Oh, and on the subject of Chloe as a fighter: I found her a little too efficient by the later stages of the game. Give her the cloak of mirroring, a belt of giant strength, and a ring of free action and there's little she can't slice and dice with ridiculous ease.

My 2cents.

Sleepmist

[Aion]

Most of the discussion on this thread has been about the fighting side of our favourite barbarian dyke. Personally, I find the role-playing side of the game the more interesting. That is where, IMHO, Chloe has some pluses and some minuses--mostly pluses.

BIG, BIG plus = as NPC romances go, Chloe beats the Bioware lot by the proverbial country mile. For heaven's sake, Bioware, WHY THE Hell would Jaheira be falling into the sack with <CHRNAME> about 5 seconds after seeing Khalid's corpse? Sheesh. Must be all that testosterone wafting about the place. Chloe, on the other, talks to PC's (and Immy) to see whether or not *SHE* thinks the character is her type. I wish they were all like this.

Not so much of a plus: Chloe nearly always seems to get the last word in her banters with other NPCs. Although, Jaheira sometimes manages to put her in her place.

A minus: Chloe can get terribly sanctimonious and prudish in her GTKU questions, and her sense of humour is not terribly consistent.

The biggest minus for me was her immunity to Bodhi's capture. I'd much preferred for her to have been as human as any other NPC at this point--demigoddess status notwithstanding.

On balance, then, I'd rate Chloe a B+ as an NPC. If she had been humanly fallible in the graveyard denouement, it would've been an A. This is a terrific mod and I extend my deepest thanks to the creators.


Oh, and on the subject of Chloe as a fighter: I found her a little too efficient by the later stages of the game. Give her the cloak of mirroring, a belt of giant strength, and a ring of free action and there's little she can't slice and dice with ridiculous ease.

My 2cents.

Sleepmist

Oh, very true. Chloe fits so well into the game BECAUSE of the Role-Playing aspect. Not just her romance, but also her interjections and banters, and her past life as well. ^^

Okay okay, I'll stop kissing up.

[Lucythebeast]

Not so much of a plus: Chloe nearly always seems to get the last word in her banters with other NPCs. Although, Jaheira sometimes manages to put her in her place.

This is a roleplay aspect. It's not so much a "Chloe wins the argument" as a "Chloe won't shut up because she's stubborn and elitist." so most npcs just quit arguing in favor of group harmony. Or they just get so angry they stop talking. Or they choose to digest her words and assume she is doing the same. But I did feel it was important that some of the banters end with Chloe being the one to clam up because I didn't want her to always "win the argument" or seem to. Jaheira and Korgan are rather skilled at getting the last word in with Chloe... as they are with other npcs.

A minus: Chloe can get terribly sanctimonious and prudish in her GTKU questions, and her sense of humour is not terribly consistent.

She has her moods, just like everyone else.

The biggest minus for me was her immunity to Bodhi's capture. I'd much preferred for her to have been as human as any other NPC at this point--demigoddess status notwithstanding.

The ToB portion is meant to more than make up for her immunity to Bodhi's domination. You know... whenever I get around to making it.

Oh, and on the subject of Chloe as a fighter: I found her a little too efficient by the later stages of the game. Give her the cloak of mirroring, a belt of giant strength, and a ring of free action and there's little she can't slice and dice with ridiculous ease.

The same can be said for any properly equipped character. Korgan, with the vorpal axe and a decent set of plate, can clear a room by himself. Jaheira with a few spells can do much the same, while naked. (Hmm... naked Jaheira... I'd like to see that in battle... or just... eh... what was I talking about?) Chloe has her advantages too, that is true. I didn't feel they were that much beyond what Jaheira and Korgan, for example, have. Perhaps I am wrong. If the general consensus is that she is too powerful then tell me how you want her nerfed. If a good number of people agree and not many disagree, then if can be put in with the next patch.