25 replies to this topic

[Irbis]

Even years after years i still find new things in this incredible game. Its like a Bag of Keeping from which you always pull something new, from time to time.

I long time ago experimented with the kits and items to get as high dmg type ressistance as i could. Especialy as later in game AC is worth crap when the dmg type ressistances remains valid.

Here couple of findings for that DTR(DmgTypeRessistances).

Hardness - obvious +40 to all physical dmg at max level

Barbarian class - 20 at its max

Defender of Easthaven - 20 to all DTR

Armor of Faith - 25 to all DTR at max.

and my recent find

Jan Janses armor - 25 to all DRT. ( dont know how this happend that i never really matched in my brain that this armor + thiefs HLA UOA makes it propably the best armor in the whole game)

so in my previous games along the years i could have a Barbarian with hardness and DoE in one hand granting me whoping 80% to all DTR
I had also a warrior dualed into priest for AoF+Hardness+DoE for even higher 85% to all DTR where part of it could had been dispeled.

But if you have a warrior dualed into thief... hardness+DoE+Jan armor = 85% too!

but lets talk about the chees...
if you somehow would get you hands on second DoE... blam 110% DTR.
no gues what happends. wanna get healed? go get hit.

I knew that having elemental DTR over 100% made you not only defened against that dmg but also absorb and heal - but i never thought about doing the same for physical damage O_O obviously this makes the game preety much broken but still.

Right now i am running around on my kensai/thief, dualwielding FoA and DoE, wearing Jans armor and with hardness launched.

After all these years i actualy ive found lots of new things that i havent been aware of but ill make a seperate thread for that another time when ill get all the info nicely cleaned and wroten.

just wanted to share someplace ^^ i dont have any die-hard BG fans along my IRL friends - sorry

[Jarno Mikkola]

...

These are actually quite well known things... say for example Item Revisions fights against this, as do other serious mods... one for example makes you able to have only 85% max resistance...

[Irbis]

i was more or less sure that many people are aware of the janses armor thing - just wanted to share my suprisingly big hipe.
beside, as i said - without being extrame cheese you cant get more then 85%. so i dont see the need for any balancing mods.

[Jarno Mikkola]

i was more or less sure that many people are aware of the janses armor thing - just wanted to share my suprisingly big hipe.
beside, as i said - without being extrame cheese you cant get more then 85%. so i dont see the need for any balancing mods.

Well, the only real reason why I find the balance funny is that the enemy doesn't have such restrictions... try to kill golem with 99% resistance...

[Irbis]

well the Chees of cheeses is Cloak of Canals/Rabbit
+ hardiness/Jan armor/DoE
= 127% to all physical DTR.
and also as rabbit you are not all that worthless. you got 2 attacks, you can hit up to 18dmg and your paws hit as +3.
additionaly - the rabbit form lasts longer the the duration of its paws. meaning that after few hours the paws disapear and you can equip whatever you want when still being in rabbit form with its movement speed and ressistances.
just rest and let the mobs attack interupt you sleep.

is this common knowledge too?

Edited by Irbis, 09 November 2011 - 09:53 AM.

[Suslik]

@Jarno Mikkola

try to kill golem with 99% resistance...

well, mordenkainens' sword(usually summoned by liches) have 100% resistances to all kinds of physical damage. but if you cast lvl2 spell "know opponent" on those which reduces phys resistances by only 10%, they still die from only once decent crit backstab which normally deals about 500dmg. if the creature has less than 95% resistance it will die in one round of 10 backstab attacks in mislead, when every attack deals about 200 damage in average.


@Irbis
i see no reason to increase your damage reduction by class kits or items. you can always cast lvl7 "sphere of energy dissipation" on yourself which provides you 100% immunity to all kinds of damage until it's dispelled. if you are facing an intelligent foe which can try and breach your protection, you'll want to cast additionally spell immunity: abjuration to protect from breach/dispel magic, some spell-turning protection like "minor spell turning" to ensure that no direct spells such as imprisonment affect you, mislead to make each your attack do backstab and evade attention of about 99% of enemies, improved haste to make you attack 10 times per round and probably an lvl5 "spell shield" to ensure that spell turning is not dispelled easily.

if you dont have "sphere of dissipation", spell immunity:evocation + stoneskin should replace it more or less.

to breach such protection normal enemy will have to cast at least three spells: true sight/dispel on mislead, any kind of spell-breaching spell like "secret word" three times or "spellstrike" twice, then breach/remove magic = minimum 4 spells = 4 rounds to dispel your complete invulnerability. assuming that you are facing a lich/dragon, because other enemies do not care about dispells and rush on you recklessly(in futility, of course).

and even after that you may have an ace in your sleeve - all that destruction was brought by your mere lvl7 "project image" spell. even if it is somehow killed(which in practice is almost impossible with proper controlling) you still have yourself left with full spell storage and >2000dmg per round of physical attacks being only lvl15 mage/lvl15 thief mult/dual. i'm not even talking about lvl 9+ spells which are just EEW how powerful they are if worn by a physical damage-dealing class.

Edited by Suslik, 09 November 2011 - 11:57 PM.

[Irbis]

@Jarno Mikkola

try to kill golem with 99% resistance...

well, mordenkainens' sword(usually summoned by liches) have 100% resistances to all kinds of physical damage. but if you cast lvl2 spell "know opponent" on those which reduces phys resistances by only 10%, they still die from only once decent crit backstab which normally deals about 500dmg. if the creature has less than 95% resistance it will die in one round of 10 backstab attacks in mislead, when every attack deals about 200 damage in average.


@Irbis
i see no reason to increase your damage reduction by class kits or items. you can always cast lvl7 "sphere of energy dissipation" on yourself which provides you 100% immunity to all kinds of damage until it's dispelled. if you are facing an intelligent foe which can try and breach your protection, you'll want to cast additionally spell immunity: abjuration to protect from breach/dispel magic, some spell-turning protection like "minor spell turning" to ensure that no direct spells such as imprisonment affect you, mislead to make each your attack do backstab and evade attention of about 99% of enemies, improved haste to make you attack 10 times per round and probably an lvl5 "spell shield" to ensure that spell turning is not dispelled easily.

if you dont have "sphere of dissipation", spell immunity:evocation + stoneskin should replace it more or less.

to breach such protection normal enemy will have to cast at least three spells: true sight/dispel on mislead, any kind of spell-breaching spell like "secret word" three times or "spellstrike" twice, then breach/remove magic = minimum 4 spells = 4 rounds to dispel your complete invulnerability. assuming that you are facing a lich/dragon, because other enemies do not care about dispells and rush on you recklessly(in futility, of course).

and even after that you may have an ace in your sleeve - all that destruction was brought by your mere lvl7 "project image" spell. even if it is somehow killed(which in practice is almost impossible with proper controlling) you still have yourself left with full spell storage and >2000dmg per round of physical attacks being only lvl15 mage/lvl15 thief mult/dual. i'm not even talking about lvl 9+ spells which are just EEW how powerful they are if worn by a physical damage-dealing class.

ummm. not to sound rude but... what are you talking about ? O.o

[Suslik]

ummm. not to sound rude but... what are you talking about ? O.o

umm.. first part is about how to kill a creature with 100% phys damage reduction with one physical attack. second part is a more effective strategy to protect yourself without rising damage reduction.

[Irbis]

ummm. not to sound rude but... what are you talking about ? O.o

umm.. first part is about how to kill a creature with 100% phys damage reduction with one physical attack. second part is a more effective strategy to protect yourself without rising damage reduction.

umm yeah and how is that related to the topic? and especialy to Baldurs Gate computer game?
of course for a BG veteran like me, having over 100% physical DTR is just like cheating - it takes all the challange the game still offers. But in this topic i am talking more about some really powerfull but legit BG tricks and setups.

[Suslik]

for a BG veteran like me

have a veteran like you found any non-legid/cheating in 100% invulnerability to all damage(not only physical) scheme i have provided two posts before?

it is just a common buff scheme widely used in BG2 by liches/dragons/driders and other powerful mages, slightly improved to make it more effective and use only lvl 7 and lower spells.

Edited by Suslik, 10 November 2011 - 12:49 AM.

[Irbis]

the spell you are talking about takes care only of elemental and magical damage. theres no spell (except priest AoF) that buffs your physical protection.
at least thats how it was for last 10 years oo""

Edited by Irbis, 10 November 2011 - 12:56 AM.

[Suslik]

What about lvl4 "Stoneskin" which provides you immunity to 10 strikes with any weapon(for lvl20 wizard)? What about lvl6 "protection from magical weapons" which provides you complete invulnerability against all magical weapons/physical attacks of powerful beasts? Or just lvl5 "Protection from normal weapons" which makes you immune to all normal weapons/attacks of animals. Or lvl7 "Mantle"/lvl 8 "Improved mantle"/lvl9 "absolute immunity" which provide invulnerability to +2/+3/+4 weapons? Or lvl4 "Otiluke's resilient sphere" which provides complete immunity to all kinds of damage or its mobile lvl 7 version "Sphere of dissipation"? There are many, many more ways to protect yourself against physical attacks other than rising your resistance.

Edited by Suslik, 10 November 2011 - 01:05 AM.

[Irbis]

What about lvl4 "Stoneskin" which provides you immunity to 10 strikes with any weapon(for lvl20 wizard)? What about lvl6 "protection from magical weapons" which provides you complete invulnerability against all magical weapons/physical attacks of powerful beasts? Or just lvl5 "Protection from normal weapons" which makes you immune to all normal weapons/attacks of animals. Or lvl7 "Mantle"/lvl 8 "Improved mantle"/lvl9 "absolute immunity" which provide invulnerability to +2/+3/+4 weapons? Or lvl4 "Otiluke's resilient sphere" which provides complete immunity to all kinds of damage or its mobile lvl 7 version "Sphere of dissipation"? There are many, many more ways to protect yourself agains physical attacks with protective spells.

well
Stoneskin - lasts in battle very short actualy and it is dispelable
PfMW - lasts just couple of rounds and is also dispelable
PfNW - seriously?
(Imp)Mantle/Immunity - inferior to PfMW and waste of spell slots
Otiluke - umm yeah but you cant do anything but standing there doing nothing. and you have to fail a spell vs throw
Sphere of dissipation - such spell doesnt exist. not in BG saga at least.

the point is - all of them can and WILL get dispeled at the begining of the battle, have to be recast, and rememorised. when DRT from kits and items is permanent and undispelable

Edited by Irbis, 10 November 2011 - 01:19 AM.

[Suslik]

Lol of course there is no a single spell which can make you invulnerable alone. If you want to protect yourself well, cast more than one. For example stoneskin + mislead combo makes 99% of enemies just ignore your presence and those few who can see through invisibility will have to strike you 10 times to remove stoneskin.

Or protection from magical weapons/stoneskin + spell immunity: abjuration will make it impossible to dispel the protection unless you dispel spell immunity. "Spell shield" will make it impossible to dispel "Spell immunity" unless you dispel "Spell shield" itself. Mislead will make it impossible(well, by direct spells) to dispel spell shield. Spell immunity:divination will make it impossible to dispel invisibility, hehe. Of course i'm not even talking about time stop+improved alacrity+robe of vecna which enable you to cast all your spells while all enemies are under time stop.

And if you think you'll be 100% invulnerable to physical damage with 100% physical damage reduction, you are wrong, because someone may cast "know opponent" on you and your phys resistance will be lowered. And anyway most threat are always magical foes such as liches/dragons/beholders, it is usually way harder to protect agains their magic assaults rather than from mere physical attackers.

Edited by Suslik, 10 November 2011 - 01:27 AM.

[Irbis]

yeah but as i said - all of that you have to cast and recast and memorised. this takes time and rounds. with kit/item based DTR you dont have to worry about that as they are always on.
The point is: its actualy hard to get a good physical DTR. and its very easy to get the elemental/magic protection. there are loads of spells and items that provide you with the 2nd. and only handful that grants yu the first. and theres no DTR reduction spell/ability for physical damage.

obviously physical DTR is wourthless for mages - if they are anywhere near the frontline it means you are doing something wrong.

I disagree that the biggest foes are spell casters. Actualy i think the exact opposite. Beholders, liches, vampires, dragons(breaths) can be easly countered with so many ways that i will skip enlisting them here. but "mare" physical damage? oh you got to be kidding the most powerfull enemies in the whole game + 80% of the rest ripes you to shreds with physical damage. All golems, dragons, giants, elementals, demons, warriors, Ravener, even Melissana and her minions, monks... the list is enormous!

And most of all - in all BG saga, theres not a singiel spell or ablility that lowers your physical DTR.

[Suslik]

oh well. i'm not in a mood to prove anything. just.. enjoy the game and your findings.

[Irbis]

me neither. i just enjoy discusing stuff. but i think that some of you statements are at least bizzare.
of course dont feel insulted or anything. i am just voicing my opinion, nothing personal.

[Suslik]

Just out of curiosity, one question: would you kindly tell me just one of so many ways you've mentioned how to counter beholder's rays for just two rounds?

[Irbis]

shield of baldurian.
poor bastards kills themself firing at you.

Edited by Irbis, 10 November 2011 - 02:40 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

@Jarno Mikkola

try to kill golem with 99% resistance...

well, mordenkainens' sword(usually summoned by liches) have 100% resistances to all kinds of physical damage. but if you cast lvl2 spell "know opponent" on those which reduces phys resistances by only 10%, they still die from only once decent crit backstab which normally deals about 500dmg. if the creature has less than 95% resistance it will die in one round of 10 backstab attacks in mislead, when every attack deals about 200 damage in average.

The original Know Alignment spell doesn't give any resistance penalties... you are probably taking about the Spell Revs version...