15 replies to this topic

[ABlake]

Ok so I just defeated Bodhi, and when I left the Graveyard District, I was instantly transported to the City Gate area (well not the real City Gate but a duplication.) After several reloads here's what I think: firstly, their whole team do a lot of prebuff before you enter the area, and any buff you put on your own team before you enter the area is lost after the area transition. So that's about the fairness of the fight. Second thing is, I had Aerie put on Protection from Magical Weapons and Grok can still one hit her. I mean, are you serious? Every one of them can drop any of my team in 1 or 2 seconds, tops. What I hate about this is the way you are FORCED into this encounter. It's just ridiculous. You do have some chance to avoid the fight, but not much, really. I mean, the point of this is a challenging encounter alright, but c'mon, please give players some sense of balance. Their whole team is just plain OP as hell. And the funny thing is this mod is "Rogue Rebalancing
Ok apart from the fact that this battle is ridiculous, I still have one question remained: How can Grok's weapon bypass Protection from Magical Weapon, whatever it is? After he one hit the mage, well that's it, another 3 seconds and my entire team are dead.

[aVENGER]

After several reloads here's what I think: firstly, their whole team do a lot of prebuff before you enter the area, and any buff you put on your own team before you enter the area is lost after the area transition. So that's about the fairness of the fight.

Since PC and co. always buff before difficult battles, and the opponents usually do not, the idea was to switch the tables around for this encounter. It was a deliberate design decision which is also explained in-game through Venduris' dialogue.

What I hate about this is the way you are FORCED into this encounter.

Actually, you aren't. The battle can be bypassed through dialogue, see here for more details. Also, lowering the game difficulty to the "Easiest" setting before leaving the graveyard will prevent the encounter from occurring (this is also noted in the readme). Lastly, the Chosen of Cyric component is completely optional. You can skip it at installation time and still get all the other content provided by Rogue Rebalancing.

Second thing is, I had Aerie put on Protection from Magical Weapons and Grok can still one hit her.

All of the CoC opponents carry normal (mundane) weapons in addition to their magical weapons. If they notice that someone has cast Protection from Magical Weapons, they'll simply switch to their normal weapons. If you want to make sure that your mages aren't hit, try casting Improved Mantle or Absolute Immunity.

Their whole team is just plain OP as hell.

The battle is meant to be very challenging, but rest assured that the opponents do not cheat in any way. They are simply set up to behave as a player's party of the same level would. Feel free to check the readme for detailed battle tips.

Edited by aVENGER, 09 October 2011 - 12:19 AM.

[F-man]

I have to say that one very annoying fact in this encounter is that it happens at the time when a romance partner isn't or, even worse, partners aren't in party. I had were fun time few years ago with Jaheira and Solafein in party... After all, romance partners are usually very critical and experienced members of the party.

EDIT: Just made sure that I didn't tell any spoilers for those that haven't played BGII before...

Edited by F-man, 09 November 2011 - 05:03 AM.

[aVENGER]

In gameplay terms, I can see how this could be irksome. However, from a role-playing point of view, it makes perfect sense for the CoC to ambush the player's party when they are most vulnerable. Venduris even makes some references to this during his introductory dialogue.

By the way, there is a way to bypass this. If you lower the game difficulty to the easiest setting before leaving the graveyard, the CoC encounter won't start. You can use the opportunity to restore any missing romance partners. Afterward, you can return to the graveyard, raise the game difficulty back up and the CoC encounter will start normally.

Edited by aVENGER, 09 November 2011 - 10:26 AM.

[GeN1e]

While I still have it on my mind.

In gameplay terms, I can see how this could be irksome. However, from a role-playing point of view, it makes perfect sense for the CoC to ambush the player's party when they are most vulnerable.

Role-playing is all great and good, but it must not be done at the expense of gameplay. Like there's no food comsumption in BG2 - a must have irl, but boring in games. Ditto here - missing lover already loses a lot of XP while PC kills Bodhi, I don't really want to lose even more.

That said, CoCE does have a major roleplaying flaw - it implies that PC proceeds to elven warcamp immediately after defeating Bodhi. I could argue that instead I'd first make a brief visit to Ribald's store to sell trophies, but whatever, fine. But when the lover gets vampirized, it starts looking too cruelhearted - abandoning them in their misery, instead of paying a visit to the temple of Oghma in Docks, as the book in Bodhi's lair points out.

And I think there's a better option - you can set it up as a random/special encounter between Athkatla (all areas) and warcamp. This way, it will be player's own choice of travelling to Suldanessellar, not imposed on them by the mod. Also it offers a much less metagaming way to avoid the encounter - you simply have to not head to elves directly from Athkatla, that's all.

PS Oh, there's also an issue of rainy night potentially not being there. Can be fixed by first showing the party walking through the city (one of city RE areas), saying "Tsk, it's getting late, and stormy to boot. Will be one a hell of a trip...", then teleport to CoCE area.

Edited by GeN1e, 11 December 2011 - 01:35 PM.

[aVENGER]

That said, CoCE does have a major roleplaying flaw - it implies that PC proceeds to elven warcamp immediately after defeating Bodhi.

IIRC, that's no longer true for the recent versions (i.e. anything post RR v4.0). The encounter now merely implies that the party heads from the Graveyard toward the City Gates, nothing more nothing less.

And I think there's a better option - you can set it up as a random/special encounter between Athkatla (all areas) and warcamp

Not going to happen, sorry.

A lot of work went into setting up the CoC ambush cutscene and I don't want to throw all that away for a minor issue that can be easily bypassed using the aforementioned workaround.

[GeN1e]

A lot of work went into setting up the CoC ambush cutscene and I don't want to throw all that away for a minor issue that can be easily bypassed using the aforementioned workaround.

It would only require to change a rather simple graveyard cutscene with similarily simple one. The following ambush would remain untouched.
But whatever you decide.

[aVENGER]

I was wondering if there where any working links to the tips and readme for this mod?
I am very interested in trying to beat them through battle instead of just persuasion (though I LOVE that the options are there alot).

Glad you liked the diplomacy approach.
The online version of the readme is temporary unavailable due to the still ongoing SHS site upgrade. However, you can find a local copy of it inside the folder where the mod is installed (rr/doc/rr_cyric.html)

Also a question, is someone (Cyric?) supposed to talk to you after the end of the encounter? I noticed in the files some lines from someone.
"Ahh, yes now that you mention it, I do seem to remember your encounter with my, oh so loyal, servant Venduris and his little band of zealots."

Cyric talks to the protagonist during one of the Pocket Plane challenges in Throne of Bhaal. If you disposed of Venduris and co. you can remind Cyric of that and avoid his "test".

Edited by aVENGER, 12 February 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[DrAzTiK]

I personnaly always reduce the difficulty for this fight... Ok I play with less experience reward but find the fight really impossible in normal mod for a standard party who don't like to use cheesy tactics.
. ( start with no buffs, only 5 characters O_o)

[Shaitan]

Funny. I didn't have that big troubles. Tough it was, but doable.

I've bypassed the fight once through dialogue as I didn't have any spells memorized at that time.

Once I had both Nalia and Jaheira missing, Nalia was abducted by Isea just before the fight, but that's fixed by now.

[Kinski]

always reduce the difficulty for this fight... Ok I play with less experience reward but find the fight really impossible in normal mod for a standard party who don't like to use cheesy tactics. (start with no buffs, only 5 characters O_o)

 

Ridiculously difficult? Nooooooo (polish version). Anyway. This is one of the best fight of BG mods. Thanks.

[wellunhappy]

I've read the comments above.

 

Can I just start by saying I really like this mod a lot but I have a major problem with one aspect of it.

 

Yep that damn cyric encounter. Let me explain, my install was pretty basic BP, TDD a few other mods I do have upgrades and ruad so I have some pretty good stuff by this point.

 

I’ve done all TDD, 99% of SoA quests and every level of watchers keep apart from demopants level so you can imagine my surprise when I was stuffed every time. Considering my characters were on average 35^th Level.

 

But it’s not that that upsets me although I struggle to see how anyone playing a vanilla SoA stands a cat in hells chance. I would love to be proved wrong.

 

My main grief is it does not play ball. I had several protection from backstabbing items none worked against the assassin. My mage worn confusion protection but the icon appears on the picture and even though the mage wasn’t confused it was classed as an attack therefore the spell she was casting miscast. None of this should have happened, there were more inconsistencies.

 

This mods cuts screen and story is great but after reloading for the tenth time it’s a bit tiresome.

 

It’s pure cheese, quadruple backstab on mages before they have even had chance to start a first spell this after all protections have been removed and the mod targets low hit point characters, In some cases half your team is dead in the first round. This is tougher than almost any battle in TOB vanilla, cheesy.

 

The item haul from this bunch seriously damages game balance, If you succeed in killing them, this is a big ‘if’.

 

My suggestions (I know I stand alone):

Build an option to avoid the cut scene if possible.

Cut down the monty haul.

This mod belongs in TOB

Look at the backstab rules and item protections again some don’t work the way they should.

Otherwise great mod

[Wisp]

My main grief is it does not play ball. I had several protection from backstabbing items none worked against the assassin. My mage worn confusion protection but the icon appears on the picture and even though the mage wasn’t confused it was classed as an attack therefore the spell she was casting miscast. None of this should have happened, there were more inconsistencies.

This has nothing to do with RR. The mod that gave you the items is buggy. Or, if they are vanilla items, you need to install the G3 Fixpack.

[Ithildur]

Outstanding mod, incredible encounter with a variety of options both non combat and challening combat. The NPCs do exactly what PCs would try to do if they were smart, and therefore present a credible scenerio. Love the attention to details in the mod.

 

Ignore all the whiners; this is an outstanding mod for people who want a very legit, flavorful challenge by powerful and resourceful enemies that are going for the jugular. *thumbs up*

 

One question (spoilerish), if you choose the social skills/conversation options to intimidate them from fighting, do they by chance come back and ambush you later on?

 

Or an even more amazing RP option would be giving you the chance to scry on them and turn the tables, ambush THEM at some point... therefore rewarding you for driving them off using skills, buying time to prepare, etc and catch THEM by surprise, which probably should be legitimate options by a party with high level characters appropriate for this encounter.

Edited by Ithildur, 02 January 2014 - 02:28 PM.