1094 replies to this topic

[agb1]

Frennedan NPC: Problem with interjection in Imrae's dialogue (UDIMRAE.DLG) at Ust Natha (AR2200).
In UDIMRAE.DLG changed response trigger 1 from:

InParty("frendan")
!Dead("frendan")

to:

!InParty("frendan")

and response trigger 2 from:

!InParty("frendan")

to:

InParty("frendan")
!Dead("frendan")

In Frennedan mod v1.03, we have in FrenJ.d:
 

 
 ALTER_TRANS UDIMRAE BEGIN 4 END BEGIN 0 END BEGIN "TRIGGER" ~!InParty("frendan")~ END
 EXTEND_TOP UDIMRAE 4
-    IF ~InParty("frendan") !Dead("frendan")~ THEN EXTERN ~UDSOLA01~ 1 //frsola00 /* line deleted by BW Fixpack */
+    IF ~InParty("frendan") !Dead("frendan")~ THEN EXTERN ~UDSOLA01~ frsola00 /* line added by BW Fixpack */
 END
 
APPEND ~UDSOLA01~
    IF ~~ THEN BEGIN frsola00
    SAY @116
// FrenJ.tra @116  = ~Sofort, Zofe Lolth. Ich wurde bereits darüber informiert, dass Ihr einen unterworfenen Sauger bei Euch habt, Veldrin. Ich bin in der Tat beeindruckt. Nun zur Sache...~
// Translated: ~ Immediately, maid of Lolth. I was informed that you have a subjugated devourer with you, Veldrin. I am very impressed indeed. Now to the point... ~
    IF ~~ THEN GOTO 30
    END
END 
 

The affected transition 4 in UDIMRAE is Imrae saying "Explain what has occurred, Solaufein.  And be quick about it, male, for the Spider Queen demands my attention." with no trigger conditions or actions and one response (un-modded) leading to state 25 in UDSOLA01.  That is, Solaufein says:  ~At once, Handmaiden.  If I were to speak of the devourers, Veldrin... you would know what of [sic] I speak, yes?~
 
Frennedan's FrenJ.d (code above) adds a condition to the above transition so it can only occur if Frennedan is not in the party, then adds an alternative transition if Frennedan is in the party and not dead, leading to the new 'frsola00' state in UDSOLA01, which makes Solaufein say line @116 (above), and then jumps to state 30 in his dialogue, which is just ahead of the original dialogue path:  ~A Matron Mother's eldest daughter ran afoul of devourers while scouting.  Her fool companions fled or were slaughtered, and she was taken captive.~
 
I see that this doesn't cover all possibilities.  In particular, if Frennedan is in party and is dead, the modified dialogue state 4 in UDIMRAE has no matching transitions.
 
I think what we should change here to fix it is to remove the !Dead check from the new transition.  If Frennedan is dead, Solaufein can still use the new dialogue branch, since it doesn't directly interact with Frennedan.  Right?

Edit: BWFixpack'd.

Edited by agb1, 16 November 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[agb1]

Holy Avenger Kit: Mod overwrites cre-files and Forest Clearing (AR2807.ARE) at Suldanessellar. Only couple problems though. I'm not planning to make patching fix (don't know how to patch cre-files).

Holy Avenger Kit: There's compability problem at Forest Clearing (AR2807.ARE) with mods "Black Dragon help (a mighty paladin will help you fight the black dragon in the elven city + better paladins at Bodhi fight) REQUIRES EXTRA ITEMS" component and BPs "Improved Suldanessallar" component. Made compability tweak for future installs.

Holy Avenger Kit: Mod overwrites Reirra's store (SUELF10.STO) at Suldanessellar. Made patching fix for future installs.

BWFixpack'd (patch instead of overwrite) thanks to Nightfarer.

[agb1]

BP overwrites ILLASERA.DLG and breaks several interjections.
"Fixed" at bp_tob.tph:

// COMPILE ~bp/ascend/tough/illa/d~

Game works just fine without that compile.

BWFixpack'd. Instead of commenting out the COMPILE, I replaced BP Ascension's .d files for Illasera, Gromnir and Yaga-Shura so it will patch instead of overwriting.

[micbaldur]

My new BWP 16 is ready and it's even bigger and better than previous ones.

 

  Thanks to Leonardo for releasing BWP 16 and Nightfarer for helping me install this BWP. 

 

Now i'm retiring this EE site, it was fun here until EE came and destroyed this site.

 

I'm not planning to come back here any time soon if ever, unless something good happens like EE dies screaming in agony and pain. What i wonderul dream, oh well i can always hope and dream.

 

  Thanks to all good folks (EE people not included) here, sad that so many old ones aren't here anymore.

 

It's time to start slow grind to Throne of Bhaal.

 

micbaldur signing off.

[Faenor]

My new BWP 16 is ready and it's even bigger and better than previous ones.

 

  Thanks to Leonardo for releasing BWP 16 and Nightfarer for helping me install this BWP. 

 

Now i'm retiring this EE site, it was fun here until EE came and destroyed this site.

 

I'm not planning to come back here any time soon if ever, unless something good happens like EE dies screaming in agony and pain. What i wonderul dream, oh well i can always hope and dream.

 

  Thanks to all good folks (EE people not included) here, sad that so many old ones aren't here anymore.

 

It's time to start slow grind to Throne of Bhaal.

 

micbaldur signing off.

 

Why the bizarre and irrational hatred for the Enhanced Editions (and it appears by your post hatred for those that play and mod them?

[Cahir]

I'm pure evil, then. Good to know.

[Creepin]

Why the bizarre and irrational hatred for the Enhanced Editions (and it appears by your post hatred for those that play and mod them?

I'm not micbaldur, but I share his sentiments, so I'll try.

1. Few years ago BG was pretty much dead franchise (and IE - dead technology), and the more they were dead, the more we were free to mod the hell out of them. Beamdog brought BG back to business attention, what with all that new sales, marketing and shit, and for me this means only one thing - they severely increased the chances modding community will eventually get their hands slapped by when trying to mingle with intellectual property (may gods damn it to hell) of BG and other games, which in turn means less mod content and less creative freedom.
2. It is my firm belief that tablets, mobile phones and the like touchscreen devices are historically the platform for the lamest form of gaming. You know how PC is so much better than the console? Well tablets are to the same amount worse than consoles which places them at below pariah level of gaming: a tool for housewives and morons, whose brain capacity only good for playing games with "assemble 3 balls of same colour" level of depth. Bringing BG to such platforms was nothing but an utter insult to BG, which, being deep enough game, deserves to be played only on PC - only by true hardcore gamers.
3. Beamdog sports some staff I really despise - SJWs, feminists, that kind of. Not only it allowed them to ruin new addon though and through, with all that transgenders and good goblins forced tolerance crap, but I've heard rumors they also desecrated original content by making Safana "more feminist" or some shit like that and where's guarantee they haven't done something else to the original which went unnoticed so far? This modern retarded brainwash is the last thing I'm looking to have stuffed down my throat when playing my favourite game which thrived without any of it for decades.
4. There was always rifts within community: my memory is already fuzzy about Forgotten Wars vs. TeamBG, but I still remember Baronius and Sikret vs. all the others or much more serious old grudge of Fixpack vs. BD-Weidu, but all of these were eventually put to rest. But now I don't see the rift of mods for classic vs. mods for EE ever going to close. Already majority of new mods are for EE and incompatible with classic, thankfully they're mostly of crappy quality, but the trend is here.
5. And last, but in no way the least, thanks to EE the forum sharply lost it's appeal to me (not bashing the forum as all, it's only my point of view): few years ago I was like "Ooh, cool, mention of a mod I never heard of, gonna find it and gonna grab it! Ooh, look, few more posts in BWS thread, let's check how a compatibility got improved this time!" and now it's more like "Hmm, mention of a mod I never heard of, don't care, must be for EE anyway. Look, few more posts in BWS thread... about EE, ignore, about EE, ignore, about EE, ignore, dang, no new posts at all!"

With that said, of course micbaldur's reasons might be all totally different from mine

P.S. 6. There was a modder once who tried to charge money for his mod. As a result, the whole community united in despising and ridiculing the idiot. The Beamdog did the same, plus they provided low quality content (their "fixes" were ripped off TobEX, and they even failed to implement TobEX in full, only few parts of it), and the new content they provided was at best mediocre compared to what was created before - and for free no less - but somehow they managed to avoid the just hate of the community, may be because some of Beamdog members were once community members in good standing, so people lowered their guard.

Edited by Creepin, 02 January 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[Cahir]

You forgot to mention about that stab at Gamers Gate, which was pulled off in latest patch. Bad Beamdog. And they stole the best modders. And really new mods are so crappy (you hear it Subtledoctor? Your SoB and M&G are crappy and Aquadrizzt's T&B too, and Argent77's Golem Construction for Spellcasters is the worst mod ever). Really EE is a shitty moding platform.

Ahh and you forgot to mention that all who prefer EE over classic version should be shot on sight.

EDIT:Ahh, since Artemius is here too, his Sirene and Pai'na NPC's are crappy too. And all thosr people who love these mods just don't know what a good NPC mod should looks like.

Edited by Cahir, 02 January 2017 - 03:37 PM.

[Artemius I]

I had a few choice words in mind.

 

...

 

I think they're best left unsaid.

[Argent77]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but I want to remind everyone that games should be fun first and foremost. There is no reason for hate or insults because of it.

I would rather see it like this: We are lucky to have two gaming platforms to choose from. First the original games with a great number of tried and tested high quality (and not so high quality) mods from the past, as well as powerful mod managers such as BWP or BWS to make them work together as best as possible. And second, the Enhanced Editions with their growing number of new or ported mods, and a great potential for creating even higher quality mods with all the new features provided by the latest game engine revision.
 

[Ulb]

EDIT:Ahh, since Artemius is here too, his Sirene and Pai'na NPC's are crappy too. And all thosr people who love these mods just don't know what a good NPC mod should looks like.

 

WORD! Someone should do the right thing; break into their homes and force them at gun point to install Saerileth + Tsujatha!

 

 

1. Few years ago BG was pretty much dead franchise (and IE - dead technology), and the more they were dead, the more we were free to mod the hell out of them. Beamdog brought BG back to business attention, what with all that new sales, marketing and shit, and for me this means only one thing - they severely increased the chances modding community will eventually get their hands slapped by when trying to mingle with intellectual property (may gods damn it to hell) of BG and other games, which in turn means less mod content and less creative freedom.

 

And do you have a single example of "the modding community getting slapped"? Really, the only thing I've ever heard in that direction is Beamdog asking people to not post mods that violate intellectual property laws on their web site/forums, which is a pretty reasonable request considering that they are a company that can get sued and stuff. I still have a few mods hosted on this very form that use intellectual property of other games and nothing bad has happened.

 

 

 

2. It is my firm belief that tablets, mobile phones and the like touchscreen devices are historically the platform for the lamest form of gaming. You know how PC is so much better than the console? Well tablets are to the same amount worse than consoles which places them at below pariah level of gaming: a tool for housewives and morons, whose brain capacity only good for playing games with "assemble 3 balls of same colour" level of depth. Bringing BG to such platforms was nothing but an utter insult to BG, which, being deep enough game, deserves to be played only on PC - only by true hardcore gamers.

 

Sorry, but that whole statement is just pathetic and ignorant. I don't like tablet gaming either, you know what I do about it? I just don't play on a tablet and leave the people that do alone because they don't impact me or my well being in any way.

 

 

 

3. Beamdog sports some staff I really despise - SJWs, feminists, that kind of. Not only it allowed them to ruin new addon though and through, with all that transgenders and good goblins forced tolerance crap, but I've heard rumors they also desecrated original content by making Safana "more feminist" or some shit like that and where's guarantee they haven't done something else to the original which went unnoticed so far? This modern retarded brainwash is the last thing I'm looking to have stuffed down my throat when playing my favourite game which thrived without any of it for decades.

 

This is probably the point I can agree with the most. Mind you, I personally wouldn't really care so much about those "SWJ" undertones if they had been done by competent writing staff. Sadly, the writing (both, for SoD and the EE additions) is really weak and very "on the nose".

With that said, not all the new content is terrible, some parts are quite well done and, at least in my opinion, if you count the engine updates in, the whole EE package is still very much worth every penny.

 

 

4. There was always rifts within community: my memory is already fuzzy about Forgotten Wars vs. TeamBG, but I still remember Baronius and Sikret vs. all the others or much more serious old grudge of Fixpack vs. BD-Weidu, but all of these were eventually put to rest. But now I don't see the rift of mods for classic vs. mods for EE ever going to close. Already majority of new mods are for EE and incompatible with classic, thankfully they're mostly of crappy quality, but the trend is here.

5. And last, but in no way the least, thanks to EE the forum sharply lost it's appeal to me (not bashing the forum as all, it's only my point of view): few years ago I was like "Ooh, cool, mention of a mod I never heard of, gonna find it and gonna grab it! Ooh, look, few more posts in BWS thread, let's check how a compatibility got improved this time!" and now it's more like "Hmm, mention of a mod I never heard of, don't care, must be for EE anyway. Look, few more posts in BWS thread... about EE, ignore, about EE, ignore, about EE, ignore, dang, no new posts at all!"

 

The truth is there weren't all that many new mods and modders around before Beamdog and the EEs rekindled people's interest in Baldur's Gate.

I really fail to see how the EE's existence negatively impacts you in any way shape or form. If a mod is incompatible with the old game, that's probably for one of two reasons:

 

Either the old game doesn't have the engine features the mod requires or the author is just not interested in porting it.

If it's reason number one then you wouldn't have gotten to play the mod anyways and if its reason number two you can just port the mod yourself (I very much doubt any author would object to that) and be happy you've got a new mod to play, one that might very well have never been made were it not for the EEs.

[The Imp]

Thanks Ulb.
2. I am with the PC master race all up to a point, and would like to forgo the history of BWS being programmed in a non Windows phone, but I kinda feel for the worse off guys too, had I not just gotten myself a GTX 1080 for my Windows 10 computer. Had I not.
But, yes, you can try and deny the world as is, but the realist within you will be convinced in the end that the tools you use can change, but so long as the User Interface doesn't change FOR you, it doesn't actually matter what the cheese the world does to the game you like. Well until they decide to import a game you might like to PC and utilize the same resources to create the GUI for instance. Then you can rage like I do.

Now, the EE games additional kit specifics(Mage, Sorcerer kits, dual class kits) for example can be made into the nonEE games... but it's going to be one hell off a deed to do. The additional opcodes can't be, the ones the ToBEx didn't add, well without great hacking ability. Like that of Ascension64 or Taimon's.
There's ~9 Graphical User Interfaces in the BGT-GUI, none of them feature the zoom, but were one to add it, the BGT-weidu community would eventually re-choice. Why the EE makers haven't done this... is because they "had to" move to use different files to uniformly add the zoom function to the maps, ditching the .tis -files and go for the .pvrz files. And that upgrade would be what... ~500 MBs per game. Meaning a whole lot of the games content. Good luck trying to convince Atari to allow you to release without moneys.

Edited by The Imp, 02 January 2017 - 07:54 PM.

[micbaldur]

My final comment and post.

 

About that Creepins comment, i mostly agree what he said about EE if you eediots don't like it too bad i don't care.

 

But i never have bashed any modder or mod and i never going to do that, like you eediots are doing.

 

Better to burn than fade away.

[subtledoctor]

Stay classy micbaldur.

Actually, while the first 'I'm retiring post' was not very classy, this most recent one was. So cheers, and happy gaming.

@creepin your views seem to be about half, just disagreeable, and half based on misinformation. The former is perfectly fine - Heaven knows the world would be pretty horrible if everybody agreed about everything. As for the latter, you should really drop your wall of prejudice and at least get facts straight. I mean, for you own sake. You will enjoy life more.

Also I'd love it if you had the balls to give specific criticisms about specific mods, rather than make vague and gutless insults against anyone who happens to have released a mod anytime after ~2004. Or make something yourself. Some recent people who have joined the site have a trolling character, but they still get my grudging respect for actually trying to produce something. But to be a pure mod consumer, and go around bad-mouthing modders...? Pretty classless.

Finally, @Cahir, let's just clarify that my mods all take the old engine into account, as much as possible, because I am fortunate (rich) enough to own both versions of the game. I'm not going to *stop* myself from doing cool stuff with the new opcodes and triggers in the EEs... but anything I make that doesn't specifically rely on those opcodes and triggers, I will make compatible with the non-EE engine.

Of course some new modders can't reasonably afford to own two copies of the game, and if they can only test their mods on EE, the mod will end up being EE-only. People like creepin with the old game could *help* by testing them in the old engine and providing feedback about where they fail, to make more new mods backwards-compatible... or, y'know, you could just go around spouting off at the mouth. To each his own!

[Roxanne]

Better to burn than fade away.

That guy (Neil Young) was as relevant a musician in 1966 as he has in 2016, some 50 years to be one of the greatest rock/folk musician ever. And you know why? Because he always was open to change and to new things while still staying true to himself and he never sold out. And to continue the quote:

It's better to burn out than to fade away

....because Rust Never Sleeps

[Cahir]

Finally, @Cahir, let's just clarify that my mods all take the old engine into account, as much as possible, because I am fortunate (rich) enough to own both versions of the game. I'm not going to *stop* myself from doing cool stuff with the new opcodes and triggers in the EEs... but anything I make that doesn't specifically rely on those opcodes and triggers, I will make compatible with the non-EE engine.

Of course some new modders can't reasonably afford to own two copies of the game, and if they can only test their mods on EE, the mod will end up being EE-only. People like creepin with the old game could *help* by testing them in the old engine and providing feedback about where they fail, to make more new mods backwards-compatible... or, y'know, you could just go around spouting off at the mouth. To each his own!

 

@Subtledoctor, yes I realize that, I was mostly referring to you as being one of the modders from, let me call it "The New Wave". Some of these modders go to great lengths to ensure compatibility of their mods with the old engine, some decided that EE is the future and the would not waste their time to learn all those differences between the engines. From what I see, though, most new modders *try* to ensure this compatibility anyway.

 

What bothers me is that both Creepin and Micbaldur didn't present any solid arguments why exactly they hate EE's and Beamdog in particular, besides throwing insults. I don't recall any situation they were shunned by players that prefer EE at all. They hatred seem... inexplicable for me. Just like:

1. They are offended that some of the most accomplished modders dared to take an offer from Beamdog and began working for them on EE's

2. They are offended that those modders actually stopped releasing new mods

3. They are offended by the lack of activity from the admins of SHS (and G3 for that matters) - cause Kaelor'ee is/was working for Beamdog and he basically stopped showing here at all since he took the job

4. They are offended that BWS current curators *dare* to focus on EE/EET compatibility (well maybe not Micbaldur cause AFAIK he don't give a rat's ass about BWS).

 

But what they failed to recognize is that:

1. The old engine is still there, they can play classic's to the death. No one is taking it away from them.

2. BWP (which is focused on classic engine AFAIK) is still actively developed by Leonardo, so they can try out new configurations after they finish current run. So, it's still there too.

3. New modders release new mods and some of these are still fully or partially compatible with the old engine (see Subtle's mods Might & Guile and Scales of Balance or Aquadrizzt's Tome & Blood - these are a high quality mods that are by all means no worse than the mods from the "old guard")

 

As for the so called "Siege of Dragonspear controversy"

- the one and only transgender character is a minor NPC merchant called Mizenha, who just explains who she is in a single dialog line, but only *if specifically asked for this*. No one is shoving it to the players throats. AFAIK Mizenha is meant to be expanded a bit in future patch.

- Safana: it may be indeed that the SoD writers didn't convey her character the way some players expected, but to be truth BG1 NPC's weren't particularly developed to begin with. It's the same situation as with BG1 NPC Project - some NPC's were expanded brilliantly, others not so much.

- GG controversy - it was basically one liner selection line of Mincs, which activates after several selections. You really need to know this GG thing to be even aware that it actually is a stab in their community. Either way it was removed in the last patch by Beamdog, which I personally think was a bad decision. No developer should give in to such hatred.

[The Imp]

Better to burn than fade away.

...as relevant a musician in 1966 as he has in 2016, some 50 years ...

Right. Here's a better sentiment on as a whole.

Spoiler

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey stoopid
What ya tryin' to do
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey stoopid
They win you lose
Hey, hye, hey, hey, hey stoopid

[Creepin]

While I have no desire to argue with someone using lies and insults, I believe a lie should be called as such for the sake of innocent readers who might accidentally believe Cahir wrote something coherent.

What bothers me is that both Creepin and Micbaldur didn't present any solid arguments why exactly they hate EE's and Beamdog in particular, besides throwing insults. I don't recall any situation they were shunned by players that prefer EE at all. They hatred seem... inexplicable for me. Just like:
1. They are offended that some of the most accomplished modders dared to take an offer from Beamdog and began working for them on EE's
2. They are offended that those modders actually stopped releasing new mods
3. They are offended by the lack of activity from the admins of SHS (and G3 for that matters) - cause Kaelor'ee is/was working for Beamdog and he basically stopped showing here at all since he took the job
4. They are offended that BWS current curators *dare* to focus on EE/EET compatibility (well maybe not Micbaldur cause AFAIK he don't give a rat's ass about BWS).

1. There's no such thing as arguments for hate, there's only motives. The only measure of whether the motive is solid is how much hate it causes. I stated mine, and it is not for you to judge if they work for me or not.
2. Never in my post have I stated or even implied I am "being offended".
3. Most important, not a single (!) point of your list of things that you are so bother about has anything to do with my post. Apparently you are either arguing with someone else, or just hoping readers wouldn't read or remember that post and buy your lie.

[Cahir]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Creepin" data-cid="592169" data-time="1483516150"><p>
While I have no desire to argue with someone using lies and insults, I believe a lie should be called as such for the sake of innocent readers who might accidentally believe Cahir wrote something coherent.<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Cahir" data-cid="592165"><p>What bothers me is that both Creepin and Micbaldur didn't present any solid arguments why exactly they hate EE's and Beamdog in particular, besides throwing insults. I don't recall any situation they were shunned by players that prefer EE at all. They hatred seem... inexplicable for me. Just like:<br />
1. They are offended that some of the most accomplished modders dared to take an offer from Beamdog and began working for them on EE's<br />
2. They are offended that those modders actually stopped releasing new mods<br />
3. They are offended by the lack of activity from the admins of SHS (and G3 for that matters) - cause Kaelor'ee is/was working for Beamdog and he basically stopped showing here at all since he took the job<br />
4. They are offended that BWS current curators *dare* to focus on EE/EET compatibility (well maybe not Micbaldur cause AFAIK he don't give a rat's ass about BWS).</p></blockquote>1. There's no such thing as arguments for hate, there's only motives. The only measure of whether the motive is solid is how much hate it causes. I stated mine, and it is not for you to judge if they work for me or not.<br />
2. Never in my post have I stated or even implied I am "being offended".<br />
3. Most important, not a single (!) point of your list of things that you are so bother about has anything to do with my post. Apparently you are either arguing with someone else, or just hoping readers wouldn't read or remember that post and buy your lie.</p></blockquote><br />

Calling someone morons or idiots looks like hate inspired to me, but hey...
 
True, you're not stated anywhere that you're *offended* (didn't use those words, anyway), but you sure as hell act like one. Like if someone who prefers EE's over classics should not dare to enter the sacred halls of SHS. God forbid modders, who care for EE's compatibility. I'm not throwing insults or lies, just trying to put together those *motives*, as you were called them, cause you definitely didn't provide any. Any, that could be called reasonable, anyway.<br />
 <br />
This discussion wouldn't have even started, if micbaldur didn't start to calling people idiots...and you just had to jump in the wagon. I don't usually jump in to such discussion, myself (I'm a peaceful guy, really), but was taking this bashing personally. So yeah, I'll use this word, I felt offended.<br />
 <br />
But look, I don't want to argue anymore too, just had to react to calling me a liar. Which I'm not. Anyway, let just stop this argument because, honestly, it's pointless. It's a great community and I don't want to add any bad blood here.

Edited by Cahir, 07 January 2017 - 07:32 AM.