64 replies to this topic

[Galsic]

When I downloaded the demo, it only took a little over half an hour. Couple of games of spider solitaire later and it was ready to go!

I generally liked it; don't think I have as many issues with it as most of you do, but given that it was a demo, I may have just not been focusing on as much (such as the characters). For one, I liked the faster pace of battle (unrealistic sword swings be damned ), but that second ogre battle made me wonder if friendly fire is really such a good idea here. I was fireballing with wild abandon in that damned battle and I still had to replay it twice (that I only had one healing potion and a heal spell with a 60s cooldown(!) for that battle might have had something to do with that, though). I'm sure some can claim poor battle design here, but whatever, it's really not an issue for me.

But why oh WHY did they have to change the darkspawn design? This was probably my biggest gripe. Hurlocks and ogres looked badass in Origins, especially that "grin" hurlocks had. Now hurlocks look more like generic ghouls and the ogre's face looks like it's falling off. Gimme back the muzzle! And they sure like their blocky plates of armor :/ .

Not sure about the graphics as I had to tone down the settings to medium; seems my graphics card is leaving a bit to be desired here. I suppose oughta be thankful that it works on my computer as well as it did, but I would really like to see this game at it's visual best.

Edited by Galsic, 23 February 2011 - 01:49 PM.

[berelinde]

Playing through the demo more than once has softened some of my earlier disappointment. I am still irked that I can not predict what my PC is going to say, but I am beginning to appreciate the game's good points.

I loved Aveline. Seriously. I have not liked a female character this much since Mazzy. And I did experience sorrow when Wesley died, which I did not expect to do. My character knew him for what? A few hours? And he would have attacked her had Aveline not talked him down. Still, I cared more about him than I did about my PC's sibling. I'm an evil person.

Dialogue wheel aside, there were some aspects of gameplay I appreciated. I like the new skill trees, although I preferred the old icons. Combat on normal was kind of a no-brainer... at least when I ran the mage. I had more trouble keeping warrior Hawke and rogue Hawke alive, but that's probably because I played primarily mages in DA:O. When mage PC fought the ogre the second time, Carver died and Aveline had to take one healing potion in addition to the one heal spell Marian cast on her, but it went pretty well. I got a bit of a system going after a while. Let the darkspawn cluster around Aveline and the ogre and then hit one of the hurlocks with a Winter's Breath (?, the low-level cold spell you can get at level 2). Keep attaking the same darkspawn and eventually, it will break away from the others and attack the mage. When it gets too close, Mind Blast it. That will send it back to the ogre again. Keep plugging away at it. By the time it gets back to the ogre, the hurlock will turn to face you again, but it will be just about dead. It will die before it reaches you the second time. By that point, the cooldown for Winter's Breath (or Blast, or whatever) should be over and you can repeat the process again with another darkspawn. Aveline has no trouble keeping the ogre and the hurlocks busy. As I said, Marian did have to use one heal spell on her and Aveline did have to take one potion, but it wasn't too bad. Don't use a fireball because that will draw off more than one opponent at a time, and it's easier for Marian to take them on individually.

Darkspawn are ugly in a non-scary cartoonish way, and I don't find that appealing, but the NPCs are awesome-looking. Alright, Aveline's hair is a bit bright, and I'll be thrilled if somebody comes out with a mod to tone it down a bit, but I loved how translucent-looking the skin texture was. Young characters looked like they had the glowing complexion of youth. Mamma Hawke looked older without being a hag. And Flemeth! 'Nuff said. The veiny skin and clouded corneas of corrupted Wesley looked more convincing than the blotchy faced, spiral-pupil look in DA:O.

Edited by berelinde, 23 February 2011 - 02:29 PM.

[vilkacis]

(To clarify earlier statement: when I say "plays like Origins", I mean DA:O's easymode and nothing else.)

Okay, tried fighter and rogue.

Fighter is boring. And easy.

Rogue is a little more involved and seems to both take and deal more damage, but looks dumb with the flipping and teleporting.

Still not impressed.

Edit:

I did experience sorrow when Wesley died, which I did not expect to do. My character knew him for what? A few hours?

It's like fifteen minutes at most.

Edited by vilkacis, 23 February 2011 - 03:01 PM.

[Darziak]

I had more trouble keeping warrior Hawke and rogue Hawke alive, but that's probably because I played primarily mages in DA:O.

As a rogue archer my party all stayed alive without taking a single potion.
As a mage I ended up solo against the ogre and running around like a loony.

[vilkacis]

Okay, here's a funny thing that happened on the rogue attempt.



He keeps trying and trying, but he can't seem to get off that ledge!

...I should have started capturing earlier, but I was just kind of staring at it for a while.

[berelinde]

Come to think of it, my rogue had issues with that ledge too, but it was in the other direction, attacking uphill rather than down. I told him to attack the hurlock bolters on the outcropping and instead of running around to the path, he just stood there and did the hibachi-chef slice-and-dice thing from the base of the cliff.

[Galsic]

Okay, I did another playthrough with a rogue, and I actually took the time to search all the refugee bodies and that chest. With 6 healing potions (as opposed to the one I had before), the second ogre battle was lots easier, though my PC was apparently stuck in a chain of knock downs, and died as a result. Huh.

So yeah, I guess I saw some good things in the demo, but I'll be expecting more from DAII proper (crossing my fingers). I should have two finished DA:O games before I get it in the mail.

Edited by Galsic, 23 February 2011 - 07:32 PM.

[Kulyok]

I thought we couldn't use the inventory and Hawke had unlimited healing potions?

Funnily enough, I had the same problem with the ledge and couldn't understand why Hawke won't jump uphill. I guess the mechanics forbids it , as it's the "closed" zone - you can't walk, so you can't flip, either.

I liked Wesley best of all, but that's not surprising: since Gaider is such a big Buffy/Angel fan, the name's probably no coincidence. That, and other characters haven't given me anything to like them for. Except Varric. I strongly dislike his chest hair. Eww. Probably unshaved armpits, too.

[Eleima]

the absurdity of that small dagger going through sturdy templar armor

I forgot to mention that, but yeah, my thoughts exactly. There are much easier ways to kill someone in full plate, especially when they're not resisting, but it wouldn't be as ~*~DRAMATIC~*~ I guess.

Actually, I was thinking that a slit throat with blood spurting all over the place might have been more effective and dramatic.

I also forgot to mention my annoyance with the dialog wheel, which has been previously mentioned by others. It's really a shame, they took something that worked pretty well in ME and fudged it up pretty badly here, it's very bizarre...

[Kulyok]

With the dialog wheel, I just gave up reading all the options, because they never said what they meant, and I got tired of the guessing game fairly quickly. So I chose them by the icon instead. "Mask" - when the choice is not life-threatening; "Anvil" - when I am annoyed(usually by Hawke's family), and "olive branch/angel's halo", when it's something serious(so that Flemeth /slave traders don't kill me on the spot).

Actually, I guess the only line where Hawke says what the wheel says is the "I wanna be a dragon" line.

[Vicen]

Anyone else see that they reused a few voice actors for the game? Besides the obvious Flemeth...I believe that Wesley was actually Daveth's voice...but I could be wrong...and Hawkes mother is the voice of the human nobles mother in DA:O...I wonder how many more voice actors they have from the first game in the 2nd...I seem to recall the guy who did Leske has some voice for someone in this game I think...

[Darziak]

I feel as though Hawkes voice doesn't match his face.

Played a warrior and it was slightly harder than playing a rogue but more easier than mage.

[Zander]

I really liked the demo, and can't wait to get my grubby paws on my Signature Edition. I hope Game gets it to me on time.

[Zander]

@Darziak

Really? I found Mage the easiest, as usual. (After I remembered was reminded how fragile newly-hatched mages are, that is)

[berelinde]

I feel as though Hawkes voice doesn't match his face.

Played a warrior and it was slightly harder than playing a rogue but more easier than mage.

Marian's voice doesn't really match her face, either, but we'll have the option to change the face once the game itself comes out.

And, oddly enough, I found the classes the exact opposite of you in terms of difficulty.

EASY <---Mage---------------------------------Warrior----Rogue--> DIFFICULT

[Tempest]

Well, played through the demo a second time, and I'm still at a resounding "meh" about the game. I'll probably pick it up eventually anyhow, as Bioware hasn't done a poor job with anything that I know about in recent memory. Probably going to be very well put together, with Bioware's usually amazing sound track, some great voice acting, and all the other usual Bioware goodness, but everything I've seen of the meat and potatoes - characters and story - has left me lukewarm at best.

[Kulyok]

Posted it at Bioboards, so might as well repeat it here: Judging by the demo, it's going to be very tricky to play a mage in DA2. Yes, they are powerful, and yes, they won't get attacked right away, which gives them a good survival chance, but there are two big minuses: 1) aim; 2) tactics.

Aim: there's something seriously wrong with Fireball/Firestorm/other multitarget spells, because you have to aim Fireball at a living target, and that requires some tedious work with your mouse to catch your target correctly. In DA:O, you just aimed and shot.

Tactics: there's something REALLY wrong with tactics windows, which makes it very, very hard to assign tactics correctly. Both conditions and actions are difficult to choose: in DA:O you selected a condition/action easily, now it's nearly impossible to get a condition/action box to "light" correctly. (Not to mention that Enemy:Any, the bread and butter of any mage, seems impossible to choose now, though Bethany has it in her default script).

[Jarno Mikkola]

Aim: there's something seriously wrong with Fireball/Firestorm/other multitarget spells, because you have to aim Fireball at a living target, and that requires some tedious work with your mouse to catch your target correctly. In DA:O, you just aimed and shot.

Erhm, did you target the ground in front of the target, not behind it... cause at least I could cast the spell where ever I wanted to... the AI is stupid enough not to do that, but that's it's own fault, not the games(rules).
But it's darn easy to cast, sinse it doesn't actually effect the party at least on Normal difficulty ... as none of the area target spells do(from what I noticed in the demo(fireball, firestorm, ice what_was_it_dähh...).
What comes to the tactics... this is a demo, the tactical screen is totally bogus at this point... and you shouldn't expect anything great from it actually.

What I think about the game, the style change(the darks spawn look totally different) is quite big, but I at least like the overall changes made to the battle system somewhat, especially the thieves fighting style...

It's funny how much the demo's "start" was different from what "actually happened" in he ogre fight... the power level of the character... it was a nice touch.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 25 February 2011 - 01:07 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Ok, to join the rest of you, here's my demo rant: I'll list the pros and cons first, and then I'll try to say something about each one without resorting to the use of expletives to make my point.

PROS:
+ Improved World Graphics
+ Improved Spell Animations
+ Improved Combat Animations

The world graphics are pretty good, and they are certainly an improvement over Origins, although we don't get to see that much of them in the demo. There is plenty of material to go around in videos though. I played the demo with 4xAA and 16xAF - I enabled AF from the .ini file & GeForce's profile settings. This change was also reflected in the demo options. If I had a high-end DX11 machine, I'm sure it'd look even better.

The spell and combat animations are much more fluid than they were in Origins, and although the combat AI stutters are still there to some extent, I see this as an improved part of the game. Some of the melee special attack animations are still too jRPGy (it's a word!) for my tastes though.

CONS:
- Clunky UI
- Dialogue Wheel
- Partly Subpar Voice Acting
- Changed Darkspawn Visuals
- Poor Attack DMG/Enemy HP Balance
- Artificial/Plastic Looking Character Faces
- Robotic/Mechanic Character Face Animations

The user interface is really clunky in my opinion, much more so than it was in Origins. Frankly, it gets old really fast - and it's straining to look at for longer periods of time. I don't like it at all. I could say much the same for some of the voice acting, only that it strains my ears instead of my eyes. The larger part of it is acceptable though, but I wish they had paid more attention to the way the lines are delivered.

The dialogue wheel is a real letdown, it doesn't result in Hawke saying the things you'd expect to hear most of the time. It's a Mass Effect thing, and that's where I'd leave it. Traditional dialogue paths - I want them back, this new age crap isn't working. What is the world coming to?

The darkspawn visual appearance changes are something I was against ever since I first saw the now infamous screenshot. It's just something BioWare absolutely shouldn't have changed. That's all I'm going to say about it.

The way they've changed the combat is just appalling. You now have to whack everyone for 20-30 times, elites probably 100-300 times depending on their class/race (cue ogre roar). And that's only on normal. Yeah, I don't even want to think about Nightmare. And it's not like you can't beat the enemies - playing as a mage is particularly easy, beating enemies just takes too long, and it becomes very boring very quickly. BioWare didn't get the character attack damage and enemy health points ratio anywhere near correct.

The character faces now look somewhere between artificial something and plastic. There's absolutely no immersion factor here, and I don't seem to be able to show any emotion towards any of the characters, other than that they annoy me. I feel detached. This fact isn't helped by the mechanical, unnatural animations used for the character faces. See Cassandra's raised eyebrows animation if you don't believe me. It's very easy to spot there. It's an immersion killer, and downright near a gamestopping "bug" if you ask me.

CONCLUSION:
Despite its graphical enhancements, I'm pretty disappointed in BioWare's latest offering, and I'm glad that I got the Signature Edition pre-ordered for very little money. I would have cancelled my pre-order if it had been a 60 euro Collector's Edition. Yeah, that's right - I don't like this development at all. That said, Mass Effect 3 will be a good game. For a shooter.

At least the demo didn't bug out on unlocking Hayder's Razor. That's got to be a positive, right? Right? Crud.

[berelinde]

The lack of a DA2 toolset has not proven to be much of a deterrent to modding. The demo has its first mod. This mod allows the player to select the difficulty level for the demo and also unlocks the character creator screen.