821 replies to this topic

[Ascension64]

I really haven't looked much at the code for these two things, but I will take both on board.

[Beleg33]

Hey, no idea if that's something that belongs with TobEx but is it possible to change the way timers for banters and such work so that they stop counting down when the game is paused? I hate having to quit game everytime I take a little break or else all banters will fire when I unpause the game.

[Ascension64]

As stated in that thread, I don't think anybody really know what the vanilla Bard song does - or, indeed, if it even works properly. The effects are not really consistent with what the manual says:
"Bard Song: This is possible by Bards ? the bard character will begin playing a song, which continues until any action other than movement is selected for that bard. While the song is playing, the party morale and luck is higher. The better the bard (higher level), the larger the morale and luck improvement for the party. (Luck decreases attack rolls and damage caused by enemies)."

This is just research, right? Relating to that thread, I've seen luck thrown around a lot of places, but can't remember exactly where.

Ah. Yes, it's research indeed. Seems I forgot to actually use a question mark or the word "request" anywhere...

Yes the manual states that the Bard song uses Luck. But it seems like it doesn't. I believe aVENGER said that all he'd ever been able to quantify was that it gave a morale boost - which is pretty lame. So if you could look into the code and see if it does something really hidden (and we'd then know) or - more likely - that there's some broken effects it'd be great.

This is what unkitted bard song does:

All effects are added to the entire party with timing 4096 (end at ticks) and duration (nGameTime + 100)

Display Special Effect Icon (0x8E)
param2 (Icon) = 40 Bard Song

Morale Modifier (0x17) - Sets the Morale stat of the targetted creature(s) to 10.
param1 (Ignored) = 10
param2 (Ignored) = 0
Note: this opcode is weird in BG2:ToB, because in all other games, the standard Modifier types apply, so this would be add 10 to morale, rather than set to 10

Cure Horror (0xA1)
param1 (Irrelevant) = 1
param2 (Irrelevant) = 0

Protection from Opcode (0x65)
param1 (Irrelevant) = 1
param2 (Opcode) = 24 (State: Horror)

[Kalindor]

All effects are added to the entire party with timing 4096 (end at ticks) and duration (nGameTime + 100)

Display Special Effect Icon (0x8E)
param2 (Icon) = 40 Bard Song

Morale Modifier (0x17) - Sets the Morale stat of the targetted creature(s) to 10.
param1 (Ignored) = 10
param2 (Ignored) = 0
Note: this opcode is weird in BG2:ToB, because in all other games, the standard Modifier types apply, so this would be add 10 to morale, rather than set to 10

Cure Horror (0xA1)
param1 (Irrelevant) = 1
param2 (Irrelevant) = 0

Protection from Opcode (0x65)
param1 (Irrelevant) = 1
param2 (Opcode) = 24 (State: Horror)

Wow, that's rather underwhelming.

[Anomaly]

This is always what I suspected. Vanilla Bard Song always seemed to be an ability that cure horror and gives immunity against it while it remained. We are now also certain that except that, bard song has no other effect. I also suppose that Blade's Bard Song is identical to Vanilla Bard Song, since vanilla does not improve with levels anyway.

[Suslik]

I have a request about GUI.

When using somewhat normal window resolution(more than 640x480) even without widescreen mod, there's far too much empty space on main panel where buttons such as "Talk to", quick weapon slots, item quickslots, special ability button and so on are placed. There are always 12 buttons - regardless of any settings, screen resolution and mods installed. And this is often problematic, especially for thief's dual- and multi-classes, because they have a lot of extra abilities(large screenshot):

Spoiler

I think a lot of high-level mage-thief duals would love to have a few quickspell slots instead of "hide in shadows" for example. It would be even greater if it was possible to extend the number of buttons without removing any.

The same with "cast spell" menu:

Spoiler

I understand that it would require a lot of coding to do, but there was somewhat customizable GUI in Icewind Dale II. As far as i can remember, it was possible to right-click on any interface button and replace it with something else.

Another request in case previous is far too difficult:
Is it possible to make hotkey shortcuts assignable? I mean in BGConfig one can assign most keys to most actions(like spells, quick-slots). But it's impossible to assign a shortcut like shift+<key> to any action(as far as i know). Most mages have like 5-15 everyday buffs and it is quite inconvinient to cast them by mouse, wouldn't it be good to assign them to hotkeys like shift + 1, shift + 2, ... and so on?

[i30817]

It's possible to add keycodes to the 2da file that encodes the shortcuts, but that won't be enough: keyboard keycodes don't have a unique mapping to control keys combinations, a SNAFU from the elder ASCII days. To detect and differentiate a CTRL+Key from just a Key would need both expansion or parsing of a new 2da, actually initializing the actions for it, and actually inserting a "if(CTRL is pressed) use the other table to execute a action" somewhere along the code.

Besides, presumably, you'd then also want to use it on scripting with the Hotkey('Key') trigger, so that would have to be overhauled too.

Edited by i30817, 29 January 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Suslik]

And one more old issue, which I suppose should be addressed to TobEx:

There's an effect (Increase spells cast per round(188)) on items such as Twilight Blade and Belt of Magi(BELTMAG.ITM) which is supposed to allow caster to cast two spells per round. Do not confuse the effect with "Increase casting spell factor (189)" which improves spell casting speed, because 188 increases amount of spells per round. The problem is that effect 188 does not work at all. HLA "Improved alacrity" has the same effect but with different "Stat value" field and it allows to cast as many spells per hour, as you want, but I have failed to tweak any parameters so that I can cast exactly two spells(not one and not infinite).

[Pol]

Thanks for explaining how the bard song works, I'd like to know how cleric's turn undead works.

I believe if cleric's level exceeds undead's level by 7 it applies opcode #13 param 8 if cleric is good/neutral, and opcode #241 if evil, but I'm not sure how the fear effect is simulated.

[Sam.]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so I guess I will. The IESDP says that using

CLUAConsole:StartStore("<string>")

crashes, but is supposed to start the store specified by <string>. Would this be much trouble to fix?

[Ascension64]

Customisable quick bar

This request has been sitting around a while. I've had a dabble here and there, nothing substantial yet.

Another request in case previous is far too difficult:
Is it possible to make hotkey shortcuts assignable? I mean in BGConfig one can assign most keys to most actions(like spells, quick-slots). But it's impossible to assign a shortcut like shift+<key> to any action(as far as i know). Most mages have like 5-15 everyday buffs and it is quite inconvinient to cast them by mouse, wouldn't it be good to assign them to hotkeys like shift + 1, shift + 2, ... and so on?

I'm sure it's possible. This is yet another dabbling thing I need to do.

There's an effect (Increase spells cast per round(188)) on items such as Twilight Blade and Belt of Magi(BELTMAG.ITM) which is supposed to allow caster to cast two spells per round. Do not confuse the effect with "Increase casting spell factor (189)" which improves spell casting speed, because 188 increases amount of spells per round. The problem is that effect 188 does not work at all. HLA "Improved alacrity" has the same effect but with different "Stat value" field and it allows to cast as many spells per hour, as you want, but I have failed to tweak any parameters so that I can cast exactly two spells(not one and not infinite).

I have no idea about this, but will look.

Thanks for explaining how the bard song works, I'd like to know how cleric's turn undead works.

I believe if cleric's level exceeds undead's level by 7 it applies opcode #13 param 8 if cleric is good/neutral, and opcode #241 if evil, but I'm not sure how the fear effect is simulated.

Can do. It is in the same function after all.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so I guess I will. The IESDP says that using
CLUAConsole:StartStore("<string>")
crashes, but is supposed to start the store specified by <string>. Would this be much trouble to fix?

Is it supposed to start the stored specified by <string>, or is it supposed to crash? How do we know this?

[Deratiseur]

First, thanks for this fantastic work. Patching the exe for made impossibles things possibles is fabulous.

I have a request, and this is the topic for it, so this is the one :
Can tobex add a simple way to add more than 23 IWD animations ? I say "simple" because infinity animation seem to be very good, but the test with Aurora's Shoes and Boots doesn't encourage me to use it for my mod.
I ask this because tobex ever bypass the limits for kits, sounds, texts in boxes... so many cool things, so maybe ....

[Sam.]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so I guess I will. The IESDP says that using

CLUAConsole:StartStore("<string>")

crashes, but is supposed to start the store specified by <string>. Would this be much trouble to fix?

Is it supposed to start the stored specified by <string>, or is it supposed to crash? How do we know this?

I suppose that if they only ever intended it to crash the game, it would have been far more intuitive to call it

CLUAConsole:CrashToDesktop()

If I had to guess, I'd wager that the devs had it working fine during development and used it for testing, but like many things, cut it from the game just before release. I doubt they intentionally broke it in order to fix some other bug, so re-enabling it shouldn't hurt anything, but it's not like I really know. You're the authority here Ascension64 .

[Ascension64]

First, thanks for this fantastic work. Patching the exe for made impossibles things possibles is fabulous.

I have a request, and this is the topic for it, so this is the one :
Can tobex add a simple way to add more than 23 IWD animations ? I say "simple" because infinity animation seem to be very good, but the test with Aurora's Shoes and Boots doesn't encourage me to use it for my mod.
I ask this because tobex ever bypass the limits for kits, sounds, texts in boxes... so many cool things, so maybe ....

Simple? Nah, nothing is ever simple with TobEx...
Seriously though, I am highly reluctant to treat on Infinity Animations, because it seriously mauls up the .exe like no other. I currently don't have the time to re-invent the wheel for it, and I haven't had any technical specs help from Erephine et al. despite asking last year. If I had some better implementation details from the IA team, it could speed the process up somewhat.

[Deratiseur]

Arg.
Anyway, thanks a lot

[phordicus]

I would request something new, except I realize I have a broader category that all my desires (besides NextTriggerObject, yay! thx!) fall into: externalize everything.

haste opcode, kit usabilities, power word:sleep opcode, spell deflection/reflection/absorption +graphic siamese twinning, etc.

I don't have any immediate need for anything in particular, but if there's a "shortcut" or at least a recipe for translating effects to use a 2da, that's pretty much my entire wishlist.

[Ascension64]

Haha, the answer sounds like GemRB. I do what I can with TobEx that is practicable and useful.

Edited by Ascension64, 02 February 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[phordicus]

Haha, the answer sounds like GemRB. I do what I can with TobEx that is practicable and useful.

Oh ho ho no. Every time I learn a new tool my mod completion date gets pushed back by months as I come up with a hundred new ways to finish the sentence, "At last, I can finally add ________ ."

I will be patient and/or forgetful and keep trudging along in my luddite bliss.

Edited by phordicus, 02 February 2012 - 03:04 AM.

[Galactygon]

I think ToBEx has more potential than GemRB (there are features that diverge) precisely becaue of the community involvement.

In GemRB, the engine design is determined by a small grounp of programmers without consulting their design ideas to the community for open debate. Therefore some of their design solutions are suboptimal and unsustainable. Knowing what the engine limitations is one thing. Designing a change to break this limitation in a way to allow the modder the most freedom possible is another. There will never be a such thing as complete freedom if all you do is change offsets in the many IE filetypes. Only those who can reverse the engine code or know the source of the GemRB engine by heart have complete freedom. On the other hand, only modders (not programmers) will really know the issues and specifically what design perks to use so that the change these limitations so they have their much increased freedom. This is where the engine designer needs the input of the community: to know how to redesign the limitations of the engine so that the changes (a.) give the modders the most possible freedom while they are (b.) are most comprehensive as possible in relation to the amount of engineering/reversing effort involved.

I feel that while there is little communication between the community and the GemRB, the communication and implementation of ToBEx features according to the desires of the community are exemplary. If I were to choose between GemRB stocks or ToBEx stocks, I would buy shares from the latter.

-Galactygon

[Ascension64]

In GemRB, the engine design is determined by a small grounp of programmers without consulting their design ideas to the community for open debate. Therefore some of their design solutions are suboptimal and unsustainable.

That is funny, because my development tries to fit within the constraints of what GemRB already does in many circumstances (there are two clear divergent issues which still exist regarding the 2DA files for custom unequippable items and terrain walking sounds).

Sure, I also do a bunch of things that GemRB doesn't. At the same time, GemRB has the unique development of goal of re-producing a stable platform for all the IE games, which is their first and foremost priority over modding compatibility. If I were on the GemRB team, I would actually see extensive community involvement in design as a hindrance to development because it pushes back the target of having a functional bugless game.

Because I work with TobEx, I can just sit back, relax and find out new things as we get to them. I appreciate that people want certain features at certain times, and if they don't quite get the features they want for their ideas, they may later lose inspiration to create a mod. I am frank that I cannot meet any deadlines because what I do is completely unpredictable. Nevertheless, most of the ideas put forth have been interesting to explore and muck around with, and that is part of what actually makes developing TobEx fun.

Knowing what the engine limitations is one thing. Designing a change to break this limitation in a way to allow the modder the most freedom possible is another. There will never be a such thing as complete freedom if all you do is change offsets in the many IE filetypes. Only those who can reverse the engine code or know the source of the GemRB engine by heart have complete freedom. On the other hand, only modders (not programmers) will really know the issues and specifically what design perks to use so that the change these limitations so they have their much increased freedom. This is where the engine designer needs the input of the community: to know how to redesign the limitations of the engine so that the changes (a.) give the modders the most possible freedom while they are (b.) are most comprehensive as possible in relation to the amount of engineering/reversing effort involved.

If you ever had a look at Elemental: War of Magic, you can see an example of how extensive the externalisation of an engine can get. It obviously has its advantages (customalisability) and disadvantages (slow load times, prone to typo errors, can be very complex for beginning modders, etc.) and unforutnately was never a good game. I believe Lords of Magic was very similar, in that after you extract all the files out of the .mpq, all the GameScript code is sitting there right in front of you.

I feel that while there is little communication between the community and the GemRB, the communication and implementation of ToBEx features according to the desires of the community are exemplary. If I were to choose between GemRB stocks or ToBEx stocks, I would buy shares from the latter.

I appreciate the sentiment. My view holds as above that GemRB is a different beast with different development goals that extensive community input can hinder. GemRB is an open-source program, so throughout the development process there would have been lots of opportunity to make requests etc. on the sourceforge page. TobEx is like a little pet hack-me job full of caveats and "this may break your game" warnings created with a direct of goal of enabling modders to do more things.